Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

Brusna

I can't understand the criticism of DO'C on here.

In my mind he is one of our most important players. He hits very hard in the tackle and covers a huge amount of ground in every game.

In the second half alone the last day I remember to very important plays.

One in the backs diving in on a poor kick out to get a touch to knock the ball back to a defender. That could have resulted in an easy chance for Kerry.

Another was in the full forward line when he knocked down a high ball in perfectly for Andy to get on and score a point.

I think it would be madness to drop him.

reap-a-rat

Brusna wrote: »

I can't understand the criticism of DO'C on here.

In my mind he is one of our most important players. He hits very hard in the tackle and covers a huge amount of ground in every game.

In the second half alone the last day I remember to very important plays.

One in the backs diving in on a poor kick out to get a touch to knock the ball back to a defender. That could have resulted in an easy chance for Kerry.

Another was in the full forward line when he knocked down a high ball in perfectly for Andy to get on and score a point.

I think it would be madness to drop him.

I was one of the critics but after watching to game back he was actually very good - he does the donkey work that often goes unnoticed. For me it's a case of knowing what he is capable of as a scoring threat and when he doesn't provide the threat, I don't notice him as much, so I think the game is passing him by. But he was vital yesterday, and it's not the first time there's been a mix up in defense and he's the one who ends up back there coming out with the ball. His passing into the full forward line is often excellent too. So I'm no longer on for dropping him.

The only man who should be worried about losing his place is SOS but I don't think it will happen.

seligehgit

Brusna wrote: »

I can't understand the criticism of DO'C on here.

In my mind he is one of our most important players. He hits very hard in the tackle and covers a huge amount of ground in every game.

In the second half alone the last day I remember to very important plays.

One in the backs diving in on a poor kick out to get a touch to knock the ball back to a defender. That could have resulted in an easy chance for Kerry.

Another was in the full forward line when he knocked down a high ball in perfectly for Andy to get on and score a point.

I think it would be madness to drop him.

Yes he got through a ferocious amount of work.Just hoping he will offer more of a scoring threat on Saturday.

I don't think Seamus O Shea will realistically be dropped.

Shurimgreat

Whoever you put on Donaghy he is going to have a big game which is why you need a second defender helping out the fullback.

He cleaned Cafferkey and others in the past using his aerial ability. If you put a bigger less mobile player on him he changes his game to be more influential on the ground.

Its not actually who is marking him thats key, its the second defender sweeping thats probably more important and we were poor in that area in the first game.

Blud

If you think about what Donaghy has done to us in the past, then you'd have to say that AOS was a qualified success on him. He was there to stop the direct ball and he did just that, albeit by forcing Kerry not to play it. Donaghy only touched the ball once in the whole game in the area within the width of the D and within 35 yards of goal - he set up the first goal from there, but with runners all around him I don't think you can be too critical of AOS there.

Donaghy did a lot of damage running wide and deep, but that's preferable to doing a lot of damage 20 yards from goal. I think we have to persevere with it, but maybe tighten up with a sweeper in front.

I'd be suggesting maybe leaving SOS out, moving Keegan to midfield to pick up Barry (who will surely start on Saturday), and bringing Durcan in from the start. Not sure which of the backs you'd try free up to play the sweeper role in front of AOS, possibly Higgins, but it might tighten us up that little bit.

Again robbing Peter to pay Paul as that move puts a lot of pressure on the work rate of DOC, Doherty and KMcL, but I think it makes most sense.

Dry day on Saturday expected, move AOS out of full back and we'll be watching Donaghy field high balls all day.

spurscormac

So the master tactician Jim McGuinness seems to think that O'Shea at full back worked to an extent...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mayo-s-collective-will-prove-hard-to-stop-1.3193615

km79

PARlance wrote: »

The last 3 minutes of the game on Mid West

Listen to Mayo V Kerry Final Moments by MidWest #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/user-962236350/mayo-v-kerry-final-moments

Shouldn't have listened to that just before bed.

I have no idea why but it made me cry
The passion
GO BACK GO BACK

Can't wait for Saturday. Can't see us being beaten by that Kerry team.
Our lads will not accept defeat

km79

spurscormac wrote: »

So the master tactician Jim McGuinness seems to think that O'Shea at full back worked to an extent...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mayo-s-collective-will-prove-hard-to-stop-1.3193615

No one is denying it worked to an extent
The problem is what we lost around the middle with Aido
And where does he think mayos main problem area was and is against them ?
The middle

I fully agree with him that if AOS is to play FB again he has to be given license to burst forward and give donaghy a decision to make
Had the opportunity a few times the last day but put the brakes on

spurscormac

km79 wrote: »

No one is denying it worked to an extent
The problem is what we lost around the middle with Aido
And where does he think mayos main problem area was and is against them ?
The middle

I fully agree with him that if AOS is to play FB again he has to be given license to burst forward and give donaghy a decision to make
Had the opportunity a few times the last day but put the brakes on

It's a tricky balancing act though, will Donaghy have the legs to go with him 6 days later?
Does he hold off until the second half to make breaks?

If AOS does break out, we have to ensure there's a man detailed to track Donaghy straight away if he stays put.

km79

spurscormac wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

No one is denying it worked to an extent
The problem is what we lost around the middle with Aido
And where does he think mayos main problem area was and is against them ?
The middle

I fully agree with him that if AOS is to play FB again he has to be given license to burst forward and give donaghy a decision to make
Had the opportunity a few times the last day but put the brakes on

It's a tricky balancing act though, will Donaghy have the legs to go with him 6 days later?
Does he hold off until the second half to make breaks?

If AOS does break out, we have to ensure there's a man detailed to track Donaghy straight away if he stays put.

Donaghy was absolutely out on his feet . He won't last 50 minutes
But will it be the first 50 or the last 50...........

Something else to note
Mayo won next to no frees within scoring range due to AOS being marooned at FB

PressRun

Rochford somewhat explained the Boyle substitution. Basically they needed Paddy Durcan on the field as they needed to inject some pace and mobility and Boyler was the one to make way. It wasn't really anything to do with Boyle, more just we needed Paddy there and then.
At the end of the day, we have a few good half backs, there's always going to be a good player that's going to lose out be it from the starting line up or being called ashore.

km79

PressRun wrote: »

Rochford somewhat explained the Boyle substitution. Basically they needed Paddy Durcan on the field as they needed to inject some pace and mobility and Boyler was the one to make way. It wasn't really anything to do with Boyle, more just we needed Paddy there and then.
At the end of the day, we have a few good half backs, there's always going to be a good player that's going to lose out be it from the starting line up or being called ashore.

I agreed 100% with that decision

km79

PressRun wrote: »

Rochford somewhat explained the Boyle substitution. Basically they needed Paddy Durcan on the field as they needed to inject some pace and mobility and Boyler was the one to make way. It wasn't really anything to do with Boyle, more just we needed Paddy there and then.
At the end of the day, we have a few good half backs, there's always going to be a good player that's going to lose out be it from the starting line up or being called ashore.

I agreed 100% with that decision

happyoutscan

I can't really fault the switch the last day, I thought Aidan did fine there. I've too many memories of Star destroying us around the D so in that respect I'm fine with the change.

In all seriousness , Star has some set of hands on him and even at 34 he is a fine player. It's obvious the basketball stands to him.

I'm confident we can finish the job on Saturday, I just hope I can make the trip!

Audioslaven

km79 wrote: »

No one is denying it worked to an extent
The problem is what we lost around the middle with Aido
And where does he think mayos main problem area was and is against them ?
The middle

I fully agree with him that if AOS is to play FB again he has to be given license to burst forward and give donaghy a decision to make
Had the opportunity a few times the last day but put the brakes on

If AOS is fb, he should not be leaving Donaghy and bursting up the field. He was not marking tight enough the last day and now we leave donaghy on his tod in FF. This is crazy stuff tbh.

What if it gets turned over or we lose the ball.... ball in the net. We need a proper man marking on Donaghy like keegan does on all players he gets sent out to do a job on. This is no different and the same should apply.

Rochford made a mistake when Donaghy went off as well the last day that he didn't move AOS out. It could have been the stroke to finally seal the deal.

km79

Audioslaven wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

No one is denying it worked to an extent
The problem is what we lost around the middle with Aido
And where does he think mayos main problem area was and is against them ?
The middle

I fully agree with him that if AOS is to play FB again he has to be given license to burst forward and give donaghy a decision to make
Had the opportunity a few times the last day but put the brakes on

If AOS is fb, he should not be leaving Donaghy and bursting up the field. He was not marking tight enough the last day and now we leave donaghy on his tod in FF. This is crazy stuff tbh.

What if it gets turned over or we lose the ball.... ball in the net. We need a proper man marking on Donaghy like keegan does on all players he gets sent out to do a job on. This is no different and the same should apply.

Rochford made a mistake when Donaghy went off as well the last day that he didn't move AOS out. It could have been the stroke to finally seal the deal.

sweeper drops in?
anyway I don't agree with him playing there full stop

glack

Had to watch back the game again after listening to the GAA hour. So much I didn't see! Like impact Lee Keegan playing 11 (and how Kerry defended it) had on Doherty and Moran and how much space it created for our full forward line. Fascinating stuff!!

MayoAreMagic

glack wrote: »

Had to watch back the game again after listening to the GAA hour. So much I didn't see! Like impact Lee Keegan playing 11 (and how Kerry defended it) had on Doherty and Moran and how much space it created for our full forward line. Fascinating stuff!!

To be honest an awful lot of this kind of knock-on effect stuff goes over most fans and pundit's heads (myself included). The sport is evolving a lot and there are lots of factors involved in performances of individuals and teams in general. Some of the 'analysis' that goes on only highlights what little some people know about what is actually going on in games.

Id give the example that murphy is supposed to have marked keegan out of it. Did he really though? Or did Kerry's crowd the middle third tactics, combined with the poor conditions for ball carrying create a situation where the game just didn't really suit him? Im not trying to say keegan played well. But if murphy hadn't happened to kick a late point would people have a different opinion, i.e. they were both quiet? Is that analysis actually just based on a score? I think it is. When you consider keegan had a chance himself that just tailed off wide, it kind of highlights the daft, emotionally charged stuff people go on with.

flasher0030

Stoner wrote: »

I agree completely. I think midfiled is his best position and he's an option at 14.

Note MDMA played midfield for Dublin against Kerry last year but was very effective dropping back on Donaghy every now and then, that's another option.

I don't think Jim will give us Michael Darragh for the replay though.

In seriousness though, A O'Shea wouldn't have the engine that MDMA has. If he was trotting in and out from full back to midfield, back again, put in a stint in full forward, I could just see the game passing him by. I could be wrong.

flasher0030

franklyon wrote: »

I think Seamus O Shea is the man for the job, god knows he had a brutal game at midfield if Donaghy gets the better of him for a goal drop Aidan back and let him continue on where he left off but to get tighter.
That or put Aidan up at FF and see how that Kerry full back line like it, give them something to think about anyway, we showed too much respect to Kerry I think and we should be concentrating on our own strengths.

I had suggested S O'Shea to mark Donaghy. But after seeing his distribution of the ball on Sunday, and remembering back on prior games, I wouldn't have him stationed 20 yards from our own goal. I think he is too unreliable as to where he will put the ball in a tight situation around the goal.

WesternZulu

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be honest an awful lot of this kind of knock-on effect stuff goes over most fans and pundit's heads (myself included). The sport is evolving a lot and there are lots of factors involved in performances of individuals and teams in general. Some of the 'analysis' that goes on only highlights what little some people know about what is actually going on in games.

Id give the example that murphy is supposed to have marked keegan out of it. Did he really though? Or did Kerry's crowd the middle third tactics, combined with the poor conditions for ball carrying create a situation where the game just didn't really suit him? Im not trying to say keegan played well. But if murphy hadn't happened to kick a late point would people have a different opinion, i.e. they were both quiet? Is that analysis actually just based on a score? I think it is. When you consider keegan had a chance himself that just tailed off wide, it kind of highlights the daft, emotionally charged stuff people go on with.

I think it highlights how poor in general The Sunday Games analysis is. Most of it is cliched soundbites, whereas some of the podcasts are very informative.

It's a pity we don't get more detailed analysis on TV, especially when a lot of people take what Spillane and Brolly say as gospel when more often than not it's BS.

NabyLadistheman

Rochie going to be able to write some book when the time comes!

charlie14

Audioslaven wrote: »

If AOS is fb, he should not be leaving Donaghy and bursting up the field. He was not marking tight enough the last day and now we leave donaghy on his tod in FF. This is crazy stuff tbh.

What if it gets turned over or we lose the ball.... ball in the net. We need a proper man marking on Donaghy like keegan does on all players he gets sent out to do a job on. This is no different and the same should apply.

Rochford made a mistake when Donaghy went off as well the last day that he didn't move AOS out. It could have been the stroke to finally seal the deal.

Thinking back on Sunday, is Mayo`s main problem Donaghy`s aerial threat or Kerry`s midfield ?
A O Shea snuff out the aerial threat but that was not by out-fielding Donaghy but simply by being there resulting in Kerry not sending in high ball when he was at FB.

Any problems Donaghy caused came about from Kerry winning ball at midfield and their second goal basically from a mid-fielder.
I would see it as fairly obvious that Barry will start for them on Saturday and with his mobility that is not going to weaken them there.
With Clarke`s kickouts Kerry are going to again press up and force the kickout to the center and I would be very surprised if Fitzmaurice`s instructions this week are "Score or kick it dead, but do not leave it short for Mayo to build from the back".

No criticism of O Shea intended, he is not a natural full back, but other than snuffing out that aerial threat by his presence, he really did not add anything.
Would he not be better placed out around the center cutting down on the supply that Donaghy was receiving plus winning ball and moving Mayo forward, and just put a big man on Donaghy at FB and the sweeper to go with him when he come out ?

O Shea out in the center would also have the advantage off (if as I strongly suspect) Kerry start Barry rather than Maher, who imo only started Sunday because Kerry expected O Shea to be out around the middle and that he moreso than Barry had the physicality to hassle O Shea.

charlie14

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be honest an awful lot of this kind of knock-on effect stuff goes over most fans and pundit's heads (myself included). The sport is evolving a lot and there are lots of factors involved in performances of individuals and teams in general. Some of the 'analysis' that goes on only highlights what little some people know about what is actually going on in games.

Id give the example that murphy is supposed to have marked keegan out of it. Did he really though? Or did Kerry's crowd the middle third tactics, combined with the poor conditions for ball carrying create a situation where the game just didn't really suit him? Im not trying to say keegan played well. But if murphy hadn't happened to kick a late point would people have a different opinion, i.e. they were both quiet? Is that analysis actually just based on a score? I think it is. When you consider keegan had a chance himself that just tailed off wide, it kind of highlights the daft, emotionally charged stuff people go on with.

You may be correct on Murphy and Keegan but with him being last years Player Of The Year and his display against Roscommon drawn Q/F, I would be very surprised if top of the Kerry list before the game wasn`t to curb his influence with Murphy being told to just sacrifice his own game and keep Keegan occupied at all times.

Seámus-Púbach

https://dontfoul.wordpress.com/2017/08/22/mayo-v-kerry-2017-ai-sf/

MayoAreMagic

charlie14 wrote: »

You may be correct on Murphy and Keegan but with him being last years Player Of The Year and his display against Roscommon drawn Q/F, I would be very surprised if top of the Kerry list before the game wasn`t to curb his influence with Murphy being told to just sacrifice his own game and keep Keegan occupied at all times.

No question about that, once the switch was made anyway. And that is another factor no doubt. But some would have you believe that it was the only factor. However, do you remember murphy making any big tackles on him or any big dispossessions? To my mind the ball just seemed to be moving away from both of them most of the time and they didn't really feature either way, bar a bit of link play and getting on the end of an odd recycled ball. One went over, the other didn't.

Id say something similar about durcan. He is getting plaudits because he kicked the equaliser, and all credit to him for that, but up to that point he wasn't really in it and made some poor decisions. But the pundits will say he had a good game.

charlie14

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No question about that, once the switch was made anyway. And that is another factor no doubt. But some would have you believe that it was the only factor. However, do you remember murphy making any big tackles on him or any big dispossessions? To my mind the ball just seemed to be moving away from both of them most of the time and they didn't really feature either way, bar a bit of link play and getting on the end of an odd recycled ball. One went over, the other didn't.

Id say something similar about durcan. He is getting plaudits because he kicked the equaliser, and all credit to him for that, but up to that point he wasn't really in it and made some poor decisions. But the pundits will say he had a good game.

I imagine Kerry were banking on Keegan being a defender and selected as such, (being on someone as dangerous as Murphy can be in not just taking his own scores, but who can play good ball in and especially with Donaghy inside), Keegan would have looked on his primary job, and rightly so imo, as preventing either.
Like yourself I thought the ball was often just moving away from both of them, but for me that was Kerry using Murphy as nothing other than a decoy to minimise Keegan`s influence.

With Durcan it`s a case of that quote from Babs Keating on the short distance between a slap on the back and a kick in the arse.
If he hadn`t got the equaliser and the subsequent slap on the back his arse would be most likely taking a kicking for the one prior that he kicked wide.
In fairness too him, brave to take on the last one.
After his miss shortly before, many would have looked to have off loaded knowing the blame that would follow him for years to come for missing two in a row and the game lost.

PARlance

km79 wrote: »

I have no idea why but it made me cry
The passion
GO BACK GO BACK

Can't wait for Saturday. Can't see us being beaten by that Kerry team.
Our lads will not accept defeat

It's priceless, you won't hear Martin Carney like that on RTE. 3 mins that sum up a lifetime of Mayo support.

km79

PARlance wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

I have no idea why but it made me cry
The passion
GO BACK GO BACK

Can't wait for Saturday. Can't see us being beaten by that Kerry team.
Our lads will not accept defeat

It's priceless, you won't hear Martin Carney like that on RTE. 3 mins that sum up a lifetime of Mayo support.

GO ON PARSONS........NOOOOOO TOM

LOL
That 30 seconds summed up the last few years
Worked SO hard to get level
Win the kickout
Win is in sight and a loose pass

I really warmed to Carney after this though.
Shows how bland and cliched they have to be on RTE

Loafing Oaf

Anyone else surprised to see the bookies have teams on essentially the same odds for the replay as the draw, i.e 2/1:1/2? Is there any more rationale for this than the old GAA truism that the 'bigger' team always wins the replay?