Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

Dravokivich

dudeeile wrote: »

Just trying to get a better understanding of the actual facts, or nit picking as you call it, I'm unsure why the op came here.

They were about to, when they saw the car pull in from behind them.

Over use of indicators is just as problematic as under use, to those who suggested she should have put them on much earlier.

dudeeile

Dravokivich wrote: »

They were about to, when they saw the car pull in from behind them.

And then vehicles undertook her doing 180km/h.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Over use of indicators is just as problematic as under use, to those who suggested she should have put them on much earlier.

Yep, too many indicators are a major cause of accidents

siobhan08

dudeeile wrote: »

Now I may be wrong but were you by any chance alternating your speed and making it a little bit more difficult for the drivers behind, I spend a lot of time travelling, both 4 wheels and 2 and most vehicles and by most I mean practically all, do not reach 150km/h especially during heavy commutes..

No the only time I slowed down considerably with home behind me was to go through the toll and sped up once through to the 120 and kept going up a bit when he came so close to me. Each time I sped up a bit to get a bit of distance between us he would speed up and get closer

Diemos wrote: »

Agreed, the tailgater was 100% wrong. But it sounds like the OP could have done more to diffuse the situation, like indicate their intent to vacate the over taking lane in a timely manner. Speeding up to 150kmh because you are intimidated by the car behind you is not the action of a competant driver.

If the van had time to cut up the car in the left hand lane and the OP had not even begun indicating then it think it's fair to say that more could have been done.
That is in no means to validate the action of the van driver, they are a dangerous a$$.

Like I have said a number of time already here I was checking my mirrors to check it was safe to move over and saw the vechicle in question begins to move over. I was taught when learning to drive to check it's clear, the signal and then move. Which it what my intention was. Clearly it wasn't enough for the impatient kn0bheads on the roads. That system has served me well since I passed my test.

No penality points in 9 years of driving and only one accident. Which I wasn't at fault for as I was rear ended. Which I why I kept increase the speed to get some distance. As I do not like people so closes to my arse as I've felt the pain of a collision from behind.

dudeeile

The easiest method to get a tailgater off yer rear end is to pull over and let them pass, safest place for you is behind them.

Dravokivich

dudeeile wrote: »

And then vehicles undertook her doing 180km/h.



Yep, too many indicators are a major cause of accidents

I'd suggest forgetting about the numbers. OP was caught up in the excitement of being tailgated so aggressively.

Keeping an indicator on for a longer amount of time than perceived to be required will undermine the use of it. The person behind you won't be confident in it and move as they see fit to get around you.

I see it every day on a bus, where people drive in front of the bus (going straight) so they can turn left, instead of holding back and coming in behind the bus.

The OP was just an obstacle to the driver behind them. Doesn't matter how good or bad a driver they are, that other person was always going to pull such a stunt, when they knew they had the room to.

dudeeile wrote: »

The easiest method to get a tailgater off yer rear end is to pull over and let them pass, safest place for you is behind them.

And when they wanted to do that, the tailgater was there. Can't win!

dudeeile

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'd suggest forgetting about the numbers. OP was caught up in the excitement of being tailgated so aggressively.

Keeping an indicator on for a longer amount of time than perceived to be required will undermine the use of it. The person behind you won't be confident in it and move as they see fit to get around you.

I see it every day on a bus, where people drive in front of the bus (going straight) so they can turn left, instead of holding back and coming in behind the bus.

The OP was just an obstacle to the driver behind them. Doesn't matter how good or bad a driver they are, that other person was always going to pull such a stunt, when they knew they had the room to.



And when they wanted to do that, the tailgater was there. Can't win!

Look man, first ya say stop nit picking (from op's story) and now it's forget the numbers (from op's story), let's just pull wild assumptions out of our ass and use those as the new basis for discussion shall we.

dev100

siobhan08 wrote:

That fact that I was going that speed and was tailgated and undertaken is what I found so astonishing. Like what speed is fast enough for those idiots ??

Look it's like this no matter what you drive there's always someone who wants to go and can go faster than you it's difficult to have the high moral ground when you were driving well above the speed limit . you just have to recognise when someone is going faster and move out of their way in good time so you don't end up in a tailgating situation . Just get used to it . If you were @ 150 that's a fair oul speed you wouldn't need 5 seconds to move into the left lane after you've overtaken a vehicle

Zubeneschamali wrote:

It is illegal. There is no legal definition of "undertaking", but you may only pass on the left in 3 situations, and slow numpty in the middle lane is not one of them.

So your saying I can't go faster than a car which is on the outside of me ?

siobhan08

Swanner wrote: »

This story doesn't add up..

You were intending to move left but not indicating, you needed 5 seconds to think about indicating, another 5 seconds to think about the manoeuvre while being undertaken by a van doing 180 while overtaking other traffic..

Don't know who is wrong or who is right as I wasn't there but if I was a judge, based on the facts presented, and given the prevalence of this behaviour on our roads, I'd say you were hogging the lane.

Also by your own admission you were driving faster then you were comfortable with and breaking the limit. I wouldn't be that fussed about the limit as many of us exceed it on motorways from time to time but driving faster then you're comfortable with is nothing short of lethal.

You have clearly not read my other posts. I have stated a few times that as soon as I passed the last car I glimpsed in my mirror to check the distance before indicating and saw the guy begin to move left. Realised what he was doing so stayed in the overtaking lane to let him get by

I never said I was uncomfortable doing the speed I was doing. You have made that assumption because I said I would never usually do that speed and only did to try and get the Ahold off my back. I don't usually do that kind of speed because I would rather not get done for speeding

Dravokivich

dudeeile wrote: »

Look man, first ya say stop nit picking (from op's story) and now it's forget the numbers (from op's story), let's just pull wild assumptions out of our ass and use those as the new basis for discussion shall we.

That wasn't the first time I've said that. The OP's perception is not overly reputable. I agree with everyone that's questioning how they "estimated" the other guy did 180 to pass them. There is no way the OP could have been doing 150 and then the Van shot to 180 to go by in a matter of moments. No matter how new that van is, it's not a sports car. It's why I don't see them to be relevant. There isn't a proper gauge on what they were actually doing. And the same set of manouvres would have happened regardless.

First Up

siobhan08 wrote:

No penality points in 9 years of driving and only one accident. Which I wasn't at fault for as I was rear ended. Which I why I kept increase the speed to get some distance. As I do not like people so closes to my arse as I've felt the pain of a collision from behind.

Has the OP told us where this happened?

martingriff

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

siobhan08

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cut the nit picking. The OP didn't come here to expect a pat on the back, or to have their driving glorified. They wanted to understand if madness is expected on the M50.

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

martingriff wrote: »

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

dunleakelleher

Swanner wrote: »

This story doesn't add up..

the story add up fine,
she overtook and delayed in the outside lane to piss the car behind off.
but it backfired that person just moved on (in more ways that one) And instead of pissing him/her off it's the OP that clearly feels violated and wronged. so much so she takes to the interwed for validation of her actions (or lack of)
do what the "undertaker" did and move on. let it go. life is too short to try and police everybody who used the road.

First Up

siobhan08 wrote:

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

Obviously not the M50 as you described the incident at a Toll Plaza.

After most such Plazas there is a few hundred meters of unmarked road which allows time for traffic to find the lane appropriate to their speed and other traffic. Was this the case?

GreeBo

siobhan08 wrote: »

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurance around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply becase they were impatient.

OP, was there room for you to pull in before you had overtaken all of the cars you wanted to?

Just because you are overtaking, doesnt mean that you can stay in the outer lane holding up other traffic.
If there is space, then you should pull in, let the faster traffic pass you and then pull out and continue your maneuver.

If not then I agree with the others than indicating while you wait to pull back in is probably the safer method, none of which excuses the lads jumping up your inside.

martingriff

siobhan08 wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cut the nit picking. The OP didn't come here to expect a pat on the back, or to have their driving glorified. They wanted to understand if madness is expected on the M50.

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt

martingriff wrote: »

First of all tailgater 100% in the wrong and like you I like to see the whole car in my mirror with a small bit of space before I move in.

But just to get all the speculation out of the way when you were getting ready to move back in had you the indicator on.

Now the use or rather lack of use of the indicator could fill a thread of it own.

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

But the signal is to signify to people you are about to perform an action not doing it now. Going a bit of topic but if you are taking a turn on a road (Not at light) would you indicate to show your intent to make the turn. Same for moving in on a overtaking manover. Should have it on as you are passing the car.

Regardless of this they were still found a stupid dangerous thing

First Up

martingriff wrote:

No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.


That's how I was taught to drive

Were you taught how to drive on a two/three lane motorway?

siobhan08

dunleakelleher wrote: »

the story add up fine,
she overtook and delayed in the outside lane to piss the car behind off.
but it backfired that person just moved on (in more ways that one) And instead of pissing him/her off it's the OP that clearly feels violated and wronged. so much so she takes to the interwed for validation of her actions (or lack of)
do what the "undertaker" did and move on. let it go. life is too short to try and police everybody who used the road.

Now your talking BS. I haven't been a regular everyday user of the motorways around commuter time until this week and noticed the carry on of some drivers and came here to find out if this was a regular occurance on Irish motorways. Now that I have found out it is. It explains the prevalence of accidents you do hear about.

First Up wrote: »

Obviously not the M50 as you described the incident at a Toll Plaza.

After most such Plazas there is a few hundred meters of unmarked road which allows time for traffic to find the lane appropriate to their speed and other traffic. Was this the case?

Yeah that is the case. I stayed right to get by the vehicles on my left who were building up their speed after stopping for the toll and other cars that were moving slower that I was.

First Up

siobhan08 wrote:

Yeah that is the case. I stayed right to get by the vehicles on my left who were building up their speed after stopping for the toll and other cars that were moving slower that I was.

The guy behind you was obviously an impatient a-hole but the area after a Toll Plaza is not the place to be overtaking. It is deliberately wide enough to accomodate cars using all the toll booths (and express lane). In that area you just take your turn to feed back into 2-3 lanes and then resume normal driving.

siobhan08

Dravokivich wrote: »

That wasn't the first time I've said that. The OP's perception is not overly reputable. I agree with everyone that's questioning how they "estimated" the other guy did 180 to pass them. There is no way the OP could have been doing 150 and then the Van shot to 180 to go by in a matter of moments. No matter how new that van is, it's not a sports car. It's why I don't see them to be relevant. There isn't a proper gauge on what they were actually doing. And the same set of manouvres would have happened regardless.

Like I have said the 180 was a guess going by fast he dusted me and dissappeared out of sight.

First Up wrote: »

Were you taught how to drive on a two/three lane motorway?

No I wasn't because you can't drive in them as a learner driver. I've been driving on them since the day after I've passed my test and I've never seen the carry on I've seen this time. My motorway experience includes some of the busiest motorways in America and The UK

Zubeneschamali

dev100 wrote: »

So your saying I can't go faster than a car which is on the outside of me ?

I am saying it is illegal. Here is the law:

(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

TherapyBoy

Siobhan, you did nothing wrong.

However, if you find yourself in this situation again, using your indicator a little earlier than normal will tell the tailgater that you intend to move out of their way. If there's a line of cars, when you are level (or even just approaching the last car) put on your indicator & pull in when you've passed said car.

First Up

Zubeneschamali wrote:

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Which is the bit that is open to interpretation. If the middle lane is full of cars chugging along because a muppet in a white van is holding everyone up and the left lane is moving freely, then its reasonable to say that (c) applies.

Zubeneschamali

First Up wrote: »

Which is the bit that is open to interpretation. If the middle lane is full of cars chugging along because a muppet in a white van is holding everyone up and the left lane is moving freely, then its reasonable to say that (c) applies.

Good luck explaining to a judge that you think driving at the limit is slow-moving.

First Up

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Good luck explaining to a judge that you think driving at the limit is slow-moving.

Who said anything about driving at the limit?

wardides

siobhan08 wrote: »

The incident I'm referring to didn't actually happen in the M50. Occurrd on a motorway along the commuter belt


No I didn't have the indicator on. As I have said before. I was checking my distance and making sure it was safe to move.

That's how I was taught to drive

Check mirrors
Signal
Then move

Surely there was enough space for you to move in though if you were ahead of the undertaking car and they still had enough space (at least a car length) to move in behind you but still ahead of the car already in the left lane. I can check my mirrors, signal and move pretty much in 2 seconds. If anything I tend to do it as I'm overtaking the final car. If we're talking about the M1 here, there is only 2 lanes so what else are you expecting to be there once you pass the car.

siobhan08

wardides wrote: »

Surely there was enough space for you to move in though if you were ahead of the undertaking car and they still had enough space (at least a car length) to move in behind you but still ahead of the car already in the left lane. I can check my mirrors, signal and move pretty much in 2 seconds. If anything I tend to do it as I'm overtaking the final car. If we're talking about the M1 here, there is only 2 lanes so what else are you expecting to be there once you pass the car.

You clearly have not read my other posts.

The tailgating and undertaking van was on my arse about 2-3 feet from my bumper.

When I checked my mirror to check the distance to moved after passing the last in a line of traffic . The tailgater had begun to move to the left to undertake. Even if there was room for me to move at that stage. It had been taken by the undertaking car

martingriff

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Siobhan, you did nothing wrong.

However, if you find yourself in this situation again, using your indicator a little earlier than normal will tell the tailgater that you intend to move out of their way. If there's a line of cars, when you are level (or even just approaching the last car) put on your indicator & pull in when you've passed said car.

Agree with this

beauf

Undertaking at high speed is not unusual on the M50 anyway.

I would say say that's not a valid interpretation of the slow moving lane.

That said. I I've only seen people pulled over by cops on the m50 two or three times, but in all the years driving on it.

evolving_doors

Maybe if we just call it the fast lane and be done with it... no 'overtaking'... just drive fast like a maniac with no limit... maybe!