Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

dudeeile

smunchkins wrote: »

OP, you get a lot of "experts" on here who will mansplain things to you.
Like the regular driving you just have to go with the flow and drive safely.

smunchkins wrote: »

Ah no, I'd have to be a man to be an expert! :eek:

That's twice you've tried to make this a males against females issue, is that your way of trying to finish any chance of discussion. No one else has made any mention of it but you're still pushing it.

siobhan08

Swanner wrote: »

With respect siobhan08..

Seems a an awful lot of things are annoying you.. Almost a touch of victim mentality.. Like everyone is out to get you..

They're really not though.. it's much better to chill and learn to keep yourself safe while staying out of harms way.. People will be nuts.. You can't control them.. Only yourself and your own behaviour.. Anything else is wasted energy..

I drove home from the airport this evening having just come from Germany. The difference in driving standards is stark. The M50 is utter chaos in comparison. But as i sat behind a very slow overtaker in lane 3 i thought of this thread. Just at that moment they indicated and continued to pass another couple of cars before moving left and i thought to myself that really was the difference between a good experience and the one you had. Had you indicated, the impatient driver behind would likely have given you a little more time, But you didn't indicate and for all they knew you were just another lane hogger who could have sat their all day..

If they really did pass you at 180 kph they should lose their licence but i think we all know that isn't true.. I don't doubt that they undertook you but you as above, have zero control over that. You do however have control over that indicator stalk by your hand..

Blaming others takes time and energy away from improving yourself. Learn from the situation and move on.

Somebody is up themselves it seems going by this post and your previous posts.

Those two points are the only two times I have mentioned things I’ve seen on the road that have annoyed me. At no point have I blamed others, I have come to this thread to fine out how common the behaviour I witnessed is on Irish motorway and have had to deal with muppets like yourself thinking ye are the worlds greatest drivers.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I have said this……. The 180kph was an estimation based on the speed I was going at the time (150) and the speed the vehicle went past me and the speed in which they travel up the motorway and disappeared out of my sight. If you read my OP, I didn’t he was definitely going 180, I didn’t have a radar gun to get his exactly speed. In my OP I said that I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180k

Ash.J.Williams

siobhan08 wrote: »

Somebody is up themselves it seems going by this post and your previous posts.

Those two points are the only two times I have mentioned things I’ve seen on the road that have annoyed me. At no point have I blamed others, I have come to this thread to fine out how common the behaviour I witnessed is on Irish motorway and have had to deal with muppets like yourself thinking ye are the worlds greatest drivers.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I have said this……. The 180kph was an estimation based on the speed I was going at the time (150) and the speed the vehicle went past me and the speed in which they travel up the motorway and disappeared out of my sight. If you read my OP, I didn’t he was definitely going 180, I didn’t have a radar gun to get his exactly speed. In my OP I said that I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180k

180 kmph isn't that uncommon anyway

dudeeile

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

180 kmph isn't that uncommon anyway

Yes, yes it is.

Ash.J.Williams

dudeeile wrote: »

Yes, yes it is.

It really isn't

The Bishop Basher

Allinall wrote: »

Must go down as the most patronizing post of the day.

Well done.

Honestly..

Is that not a touch hypocritical given your one and only post on the other thread

siobhan08 wrote: »

Somebody is up themselves it seems going by this post and your previous posts.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but seeing as you've descended to personal insults i'm going to bow out..

MGWR

siobhan08 wrote: »

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurrence around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply because they were impatient.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's called "overtaking" no matter which lane (even illegally on the shoulder) or which side of your car it happens. "Undertaking" happens in a funeral home, or sometimes in wrestling matches (of course, overtaking on either correct or incorrect side at high speed can land one at the undertaker) :mad:

Never let anyone provoke you into going over the speed limit. Let the lunatics go past, and keep to the leftmost lane if you can (i.e. if traffic entering or exiting the motorway isn't a problem). If it's feasible for you, try to adjust your travel times to avoid the traffic and the crazies.

Now if businesses are rushing deliveries, that is a big problem; van drivers ought to be the most safety-conscious not only for the sake of other vehicles around them but also for the cargo they're transporting. That is not excuseable, either for the driver or the boss who demands a certain draconian time-frame for delivery.

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

two cars did not under take someone driving at 95 mph
it did not happen

siobhan08 wrote: »

1) It was a van and mercedes car... so not two cars
2) At no time have I said the two vehicles undertook me during the same incident. Most of my post have referred to an incident with a van. The mercedes incident happen on a seperate day

siobhan08 wrote: »

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

So this is reference to two seperate occasions
Both times you were driving up to a toll and were being tailgated
And then you accelerated away from the toll area and both times you were undertaken
Ecause it's not clear from what you posted
I is he no doubt you dawdled up to a toll and then were passed on the inside but I don't believe that you were undertaken buy a car or a van at 112 while yoU were driving at 95mph

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Tigger

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Same as that

Tell me how

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Conversely, just because I say something happened, would you agree it definitely did.

Or would you use your own experiences to inform your opinion?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Tell me how

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

So if I started a thread saying the earth was flat, would you believe that?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Tell me how

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yes but "could have happened" doesn't prevent others from voicing their opinions.

That's what turns statements in to discussions which is what someone is looking for when they start a thread I understand.

GreeBo

Isambard wrote: »

strictly speaking option 2 would be the correct procedure. Just because the numpty in lane 2 doesn't know how to drive is no reason for you to complund that by also driving incorrectly.

it's not strictly speaking, it's simply the law.

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Come back to us when the guy in the middle pulls in on top of you as you aren't sopposed to be there.

NickNickleby wrote: »

Indeed.

Perhaps you should be a teacher or driving instructor. You're obviously a fountain of knowledge in your own head. Although to be fair, I think temperament and communication might be an issue for you , given the tone of your previous comments.

Apart from this one (if you absolutely must) please don't reply to any more of my comments.

dbagman wrote: »

Careful now, the concept of a long overtake is lost on some.....youre meant to keep jumping in and out of the left lane.......apparently.

It's very worrying that despite multiple people quoting the law to you two, you still believe your version of driving is better.

I'm honestly confused as to what bit you are not getting here?
It's.
The.
Law.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

TheChizler

At 120 km/h you should for safety, and courtesy to the driver you've just overtaken, leave 67 metres (2 seconds) before pulling back in to the left. Plenty of room for someone 10 feet from your bumper to be impatient and cut in. The only way to stop these impatient drivers is to cut in dangerously close to the overtaken vehicle yourself which for me isn't an option. Even with indicators on it rarely stops these dangerous cut-offs in my experience. Very frustrating when you're trying to drive safely and courteously by leaving the proper space before moving back to the left that someone (and even a line of people speeding bumper to bumper) will cut in to your left and effectively trap you in the wrong lane until they're past.

If they were leaving the proper gap behind you they wouldn't even be overtaking themselves until you were pulling in.

lawred2

TheChizler wrote: »

At 120 km/h you should for safety, and courtesy to the driver you've just overtaken, leave 67 metres (2 seconds) before pulling back in to the left. Plenty of room for someone 10 feet from your bumper to be impatient and cut in. The only way to stop these impatient drivers is to cut in dangerously close to the overtaken vehicle yourself which for me isn't an option. Even with indicators on it rarely stops these dangerous cut-offs in my experience. Very frustrating when you're trying to drive safely and courteously by leaving the proper space before moving back to the left that someone (and even a line of people speeding bumper to bumper) will cut in to your left and effectively trap you in the wrong lane until they're past.

If they were leaving the proper gap behind you they wouldn't even be overtaking themselves until you were pulling in.

not sure about that...

but then everyone's experiences/opinions are different. That's why these threads always end up being a merry-go-round.

beauf

Some info...

Overtaking on the inside
Overtaking on the inside or undertaking[1][2][3] refers to the practice of overtaking a slower vehicle on a road using the lane that is kerb side of the vehicle being passed; that is to say, a lane to the left of the vehicle in countries where driving is on the left, or a lane to the right of the vehicle in countries where driving is on the right. The practice of passing on the inside, therefore, usually only occurs on a motorway or other road where there is more than one lane in the same direction or when the width of the roads makes this possible (although there may be exceptions in the cases of contraflow bus lanes).

Many countries consider overtaking on the inside dangerous and therefore designate it a driving offence, however most countries make the distinction between involuntary undertaking (passing centre side vehicles in heavy traffic) as opposed to the deliberate attempt to pass a slower moving vehicle for one's own benefit.

Legal status by country

Australia and New Zealand - Undertaking is legal on multi-lane roads, or where a car is indicating to turn right.[2]

Canada - Varies by province.

Denmark - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, unless passing a vehicle clearly turning left or riding a bicycle or small moped.[4] However, drivers may pass other vehicles to the right in certain circumstances; these include heavy traffic where the speed is determined by the next vehicle and vehicles in reserved lanes.[5]

Finland - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, except for inner-city traffic and vehicle waiting to turn left or on the motorway if the vehicles in the lane to the left are queueing and slow moving.

France - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, except for vehicle waiting to turn left or if the vehicles in the lane to the left are queueing and slow moving.

Germany - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, exceptions exist for inner-city traffic and overtaking trams and vehicles waiting to turn left.

Hungary - Undertaking is prohibited outside built-up areas. Inside built-up areas, passing on the right is permitted, but only if there are road markings. Interestingly, the undertaking manoeuvre in built-up areas are referred as "driving in parallel traffic" instead of "passing on the right" as it is used outside built-up areas.

Netherlands - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, exceptions include vehicles waiting to turn left, traffic congestion and on roundabouts.

Poland - Undertaking is legal on 4-lane roads in built-up areas, 6-lane roads outside built-up areas and on one-way roads with marked lanes (this definition includes motorways). (article 24 of Law on Road Traffic) However, similar to the
UK it is considered a dangerous practice and is discouraged.

Spain - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, except for inner-city traffic, passing a vehicle clearly turning left or in congested conditions.

United Kingdom - The Highway Code discourages undertaking on motorways with some exceptions (rule 268): "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". Undertaking is permitted in congested conditions when frequent lane changing is not recommended.[6] On other roads, the Code advises drivers "should only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163).[7] Rule 163 uses advisory wording and "will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted", but may be used in evidence to establishing liability in any court proceedings.[8] On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving.[citation needed] Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences.[dubious – discuss][citation needed]

United States - Undertaking is typically allowed on multi-lane roadways or to pass left-turning vehicles.[9][10][11][12][13] State laws can vary as to the situations that permit undertaking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtaking#Overtaking_on_the_inside

TheChizler

lawred2 wrote: »

not sure about that...

You're not sure about my experience?

GreeBo

Patww79 wrote: »

That's two cars that shouldn't be where they are then.

I'm sure they'll stick that on your headstone.

"It was only half his fault"

firemansam4

TheChizler wrote:

At 120 km/h you should for safety, and courtesy to the driver you've just overtaken, leave 67 metres (2 seconds) before pulling back in to the left. Plenty of room for someone 10 feet from your bumper to be impatient and cut in. The only way to stop these impatient drivers is to cut in dangerously close to the overtaken vehicle yourself which for me isn't an option. Even with indicators on it rarely stops these dangerous cut-offs in my experience. Very frustrating when you're trying to drive safely and courteously by leaving the proper space before moving back to the left that someone (and even a line of people speeding bumper to bumper) will cut in to your left and effectively trap you in the wrong lane until they're past.

TheChizler wrote:

If they were leaving the proper gap behind you they wouldn't even be overtaking themselves until you were pulling in.

I think this concept seems to be lost on some people.
Even if the overtaking driver didn't indicate straight away there is absulutely no excuse to cut in dangerously and undertake.
Nothing drives me more mad than someone hogging the overtaking lane but the amount of people who seem to think tailgating and undertaking are OK is worrying.

kravmaga

siobhan08 wrote: »

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurance around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply becase they were impatient.

Because Irish drivers dont know how to drive on a motorway, ie kept left rule.

I lived and worked in the UK and used the M25, M40,M6 , never saw under taking like here on the M50 in Dublin, impatient idiots risking their own lives and other road users.

Needs more Policing from Traffic division of AGS

Isambard

TheChizler wrote: »

At 120 km/h you should for safety, and courtesy to the driver you've just overtaken, leave 67 metres (2 seconds) before pulling back in to the left. Plenty of room for someone 10 feet from your bumper to be impatient and cut in. The only way to stop these impatient drivers is to cut in dangerously close to the overtaken vehicle yourself which for me isn't an option. Even with indicators on it rarely stops these dangerous cut-offs in my experience. Very frustrating when you're trying to drive safely and courteously by leaving the proper space before moving back to the left that someone (and even a line of people speeding bumper to bumper) will cut in to your left and effectively trap you in the wrong lane until they're past.

If they were leaving the proper gap behind you they wouldn't even be overtaking themselves until you were pulling in.

I think that's nonsense, when you are passed a car you are still pulling away from it, so I can't seewhere the danger lies.67 metres is about 200feet or ,what?, 12 car lengths? One car length is fine by me and then you don't give anyone the chance to dive through underneath you.

magicbastarder

Isambard wrote: »

when you are passed a car you are still pulling away from it

that doesn't bloody well matter. the gap is there in case something goes wrong, to give the person behind reaction time and braking time. you are not allowing for that, and the fact that you are going a bit faster is utterly immaterial if something then *does* go wrong.

at 100km/h, your 'adequate' one car length gap is covered five times a second by the car you're overtaking.

kirving

Tigger wrote: »

If you are undertaken then why are you in the overtaking lane
How are you being undertaken if you are overtaking a vehicle
It's hard to visualise

After you overtake a car, the correct thing to do is build up a little distance before pulling back in, so that you haven't eaten into their braking zone.

This is often not good enough for tailgaters who will immediately cut up the car you have just overtaken and proceed to undertake, leaving no time to even get back into the left lane.

kirving

Isambard wrote: »

I think that's nonsense, when you are passed a car you are still pulling away from it, so I can't seewhere the danger lies.67 metres is about 200feet or ,what?, 12 car lengths? One car length is fine by me and then you don't give anyone the chance to dive through underneath you.

That's incorrect and dangerous. Anyone who pulls in front of me leaving 1 car length at 120kph+ is leaving absolutely zero room for error.

Also very stupid to rely on the person they have just cut off's reaction time to prevent an accident, not their own.

Isambard

magicbastarder wrote: »

that doesn't bloody well matter. the gap is there in case something goes wrong, to give the person behind reaction time and braking time. you are not allowing for that, and the fact that you are going a bit faster is utterly immaterial if something then *does* go wrong.

at 100km/h, your 'adequate' one car length gap is covered five times a second by the car you're overtaking.

what's the difference between one car follwoing another in a lane at x distance and another overtaking a car and pulling into it's lane after x distance? To suggest that either gap should be 67 metres isn't tenable.

kirving

Why so? If you cut off my reaction distance and have to brake for some reason, then I hit you. The car in front almost always comes off worse in an rear ending accident due to the crumple zone design. Dangerous game you're playing.