Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

RayM

Swanner wrote: »

From what you've written here OP, you were the problem. If other cars were able to undertake you, it means you were in the overtaking lane while not overtaking and given that this is a daily occurance which slows up the entire motorway network for everyone, many of us have little tolerance for drivers like you.

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

The Bishop Basher

If I can undertake you, and you're not indicating to move left, then you're in the wrong lane.

No amount of shoulda coulda woulda will change that.

Del2005

RayM wrote: »

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

She was about to pull in and was checking her mirrors to see if she had passed. I don't know about the rest of you put when I'm overtaking a vehicle I keep track of it and know when I can pull back in. If a car can pull in behind and then undertake you you've gone too far in the overtaking lane.

beauf

No matter what speed you do there is always someone going faster, wanting to overtake and someone undertaking. Speed limits are a joke. Almost zero enforcement.
As result there is constant weaving in and out of lanes. No one stays in lane. If you do you are lane hogging regardless of what lane you are in.
If you stay left you are blocking those merging, if you stay right you're never going fast enough. No one should ever be in the middle lane apparently.

The OP asked was this normal in Dublin. Definitely. You notice as you get closer to Dublin the driving gets a lot worse. The M50 seems to have multiple accidents all day and especially at peak.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/van-driver-caught-speeding-in-port-tunnel-three-times-in-90-minutes-1.3139108

That someone gets caught 3 times within 90min it tells you it has become normal to speed. Which means its become normal to be impatient.

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I tend to potter along at about 130 on the motorway.

So what I usually do is just stay in the overtaking lane.

You do know you still have to move in to the left after completing your overtaking?

shar01

In a couple of hours time, I'm going to be joining the M50 at Cherrywood to head to the airport.

Any time when I'm on the M50 and the traffic is relatively light, I get into the left lane after Sandyford, stick the cruise control on at 100km and, except for having to move into the middle lane where there is merging traffic, I will spend most of the journey in the left hand lane. I guarantee you I will undertake many cars pootling along in the middle lane.

What I'm doing is illegal but as there's no enforcement... big swinging mickey!

lawred2

RayM wrote: »

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

Yeah but those behind are not mind readers. She took too long to change lanes.

Tell me how

There's one thing that everyone has in common here, they all think their style of driving is the best/safest.

And also, often, they think all others should drive in this way.

Everyone shares the road, I always wonder why some let other drivers bother them so much. I've a friend who cannot drive 20k on motorway without bringing get back a story about "the world's worst driver".

For those who say Irish people can't drive, do you include yourself in that? I bet not.

beauf

Tell me how wrote: »

...I always wonder why some let other drivers bother them so much.....

Kinda hard to ignore people trying to kill you on a daily basis.

Tell me how

beauf wrote:

Kinda hard to ignore people trying to kill you on a daily basis.

You do realise they're likely thinking the same about you?

The Bishop Basher

beauf wrote: »

No matter what speed you do there is always someone going faster, wanting to overtake and someone undertaking. Speed limits are a joke. Almost zero enforcement.
As result there is constant weaving in and out of lanes. No one stays in lane. If you do you are lane hogging regardless of what lane you are in.
If you stay left you are blocking those merging, if you stay right you're never going fast enough. No one should ever be in the middle lane apparently.

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.

beauf wrote: »

You notice as you get closer to Dublin the driving gets a lot worse.

It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

beauf

Tell me how wrote: »

You do realise they're likely thinking the same about you?

I doubt it. Most likely I don't get noticed as I stay out of other peoples way.

If you happen to be behind people who you see do a dangerous maneuver, they'll usually keep making other dangerous maneuvers as its a habit, rarely is it once off just to circumstance. Its why the police follow cars driving erratically or badly. They will always repeat it.

Everyone knows someone who have a reputation as a bad driver. Often within the family. That's through their habits. Likewise everyone knows people they consider a safe driver.

So no not everyone is a bad driver.

The Bishop Basher

Tell me how wrote: »

There's one thing that everyone has in common here, they all think their style of driving is the best/safest.

And also, often, they think all others should drive in this way.

When discussing lane discipline on a motorway it has nothing to do with personal style of driving There is a correct way to use lanes on a motorway and yes everyone should drive in this way.

If you're not doing it this way, you're doing it wrong and should educate yourself.

lawred2

Swanner wrote: »

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.



It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

The M50 could not function without all three lanes being utilised. It's oversubscribed. Expecting everyone to stay left is to ignore reality.

bmwguy

Whatever about most Irish people not being able to drive on motorways I think some of the responses here have highlighted a more pressing problem, most of you can't read!

The OP did nothing wrong except for possibly exceeding motorway limit. You all want her to do a violent lane merge the instant she was finished overtaking. Cop on to yourselves.

Fact - she was in overtaking lane when she was overtaking. No problem there. Doing slightly above motorway limit which is ok in my

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

beauf

Swanner wrote: »

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.

People are obsessed with lane hogging in these forum. There's a lot of other issues like in appropriate speeding, and aggressive driving, and dangerous driving. The left lane has its own problems.

Swanner wrote: »

It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

Its not just lane hogging. There is increased aggression and intimidation in Dublin. Even in the left lane.

I expect no one mentions the problems of the left lane, because they never drive in it.

The Bishop Basher

lawred2 wrote: »

The M50 could not function without all three lanes being utilised. It's oversubscribed. Expecting everyone to stay left is to ignore reality.

Well if we managed to get it right when the road is half empty you might have a point but even on my early morning airport runs at 5am I regularly come across some idiot cruising at 90kph in the middle or overtaking lane.

That aside though, the M50 is not that over subscribed. I rarely find myself in bumper to bumper standstill traffic apart from one or two of the usual spots. If everyone adopted correct lane discipline traffic would move much more efficiently. The road is designed to work that way.

dunleakelleher

siobhan08 wrote: »

If the other drivers had waited 5 seconds. I would have started to move over. Saw them going to the left lane to undertake when I was giving my left wing mirror a final check before commencing the land change

you can indicate your intention to pull in even before you clear the car you are overtaking. the driver behind will see a flashing orange/yellow light that will tell him that you intend to pull over.

lawred2

bmwguy wrote: »

Whatever about most Irish people not being able to drive on motorways I think some of the responses here have highlighted a more pressing problem, most of you can't read!

The OP did nothing wrong except for possibly exceeding motorway limit. You all want her to do a violent lane merge the instant she was finished overtaking. Cop on to yourselves.

Fact - she was in overtaking lane when she was overtaking. No problem there. Doing slightly above motorway limit which is ok in my

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

Violent?

She should have indicated her intention sooner. Sure she did nothing wrong but it's best to signal your intentions earlier rather than later. Cut any impatience off early.

The Bishop Basher

bmwguy wrote: »

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

Fact - She wasn't even indicating..

How long does it take to "get ready" to merge back into the left lane ?

lawred2

Swanner wrote: »

Well if we managed to get it right when the road is half empty you might have a point but even on my early morning airport runs at 5am I regularly come across some idiot cruising at 90kph in the middle or overtaking lane.

That aside though, the M50 is not that over subscribed. I rarely find myself in bumper to bumper standstill traffic apart from one or two of the usual spots. If everyone adopted correct lane discipline traffic would move much more efficiently. The road is designed to work that way.

You must only travel at 5am then if you think it's not oversubscribed.

But I agree. There will always be someone dawdling along in the middle or right lanes.

But it's not hard for an empty motorway to move efficiently. All keep left can not work on a motorway with moving traffic in all three lanes.

Tell me how

bmwguy wrote: »

Whatever about most Irish people not being able to drive on motorways I think some of the responses here have highlighted a more pressing problem, most of you can't read!

The OP did nothing wrong except for possibly exceeding motorway limit. You all want her to do a violent lane merge the instant she was finished overtaking. Cop on to yourselves.

Fact - she was in overtaking lane when she was overtaking. No problem there. Doing slightly above motorway limit which is ok in my

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

Your opinion on whether or not such a merging act was violent is based on your subjective understanding of the OP's story. This is the same way that others have a subjective view that the OP maybe stayed in the overtaking lane for an excessive amount of time before merging.

As others have said, there is no evidence here, it is opinion based and we all know how varied opinions are.

bmwguy

Swanner wrote: »

Fact - She wasn't even indicating..

How long does it take to "get ready" to merge back into the left lane ?

She mentioned 5 seconds just waiting until there was adequate room.

I abhor overtaking lane joggers but that's not what we have here. Not even close.

gramar

seachto7 wrote: »

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage.
Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

Don't even touch the brake. Just pop on the hazards for a second which has the same effect.

I was in the overtaking lane the other day about to pass a truck.
There was a car coming up behind me flashing the lights. I was doing about 125 and about to pass a truck uphill doing barely 90 so there was no way I was pulling back in behind it and slowing right down for this dick who decided to drive right up behind me so I popped on the hazards and eased up and cruised alongside the truck for half a mile. I can be a dick too you see. When I did pull in unsurprisingly they pulled right across me and braked. A predictable repsonse if ever there was so I was already braking in anticipation.

If someone is dawdling in the overtaking lane by all means flash to let them know but if I'm going at a reasonable speed and I'm there for the right reasons, like I said I'll be a dick too.

The Bishop Basher

bmwguy wrote: »

She mentioned 5 seconds just waiting until there was adequate room.

So does she wait 5 seconds till there's adequate room, then indicate for another 5 seconds or how does this work ?

Because most people indicate their intentions well ahead of making the manoeuvre.

She seems to need time to think about indicating and then more time to think about making the manoeuvre. I would find that concerning.

The Bishop Basher

lawred2 wrote: »

You must only travel at 5am then if you think it's not oversubscribed.

But I agree. There will always be someone dawdling along in the middle or right lanes.

But it's not hard for an empty motorway to move efficiently. All keep left can not work on a motorway with moving traffic in all three lanes.

I'd be on it at all times but I do try an avoid peak times. Only place I ever really get held up is the M11 / N11 interchange.

I agree though that lane discipline becomes irrelevant on a grid locked road however we're far from that. The irony is we would significantly improve traffic issues if we enforced correct lane dicpline. Motorways are designed to work efficiently when used correctly but we can't even get it right when it's empty.

bmwguy

Swanner wrote: »

So does she wait 5 seconds till there's adequate room, then indicate for another 5 seconds or how does this work ?

Because most people indicate their intentions well ahead of making the manoeuvre.

She seems to need time to think about indicating and then more time to think about making the manoeuvre. I would find that concerning.

5 seconds!

How late for work is everyone on this thread that 5 seconds drives them irate? She wasnt crawling either she was up over 120. Or is it just keyboard warrior stuff? Attack the OP no matter what they write?

galvo_clare

You are completely wrong here. Why not just move over into the driving lane?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I tend to potter along at about 130 on the motorway.

As a result, I tend to overtake the vast majority of cars i come across. So what I usually do is just stay in the overtaking lane.

First Up

On the M50 I stay in the left lane except when overtaking someone very slow. Approaching junctions, if the middle lane is free, I will move out to allow merging traffic join. If the middle lane is busy that sometimes means slowing to give room for merging traffic. It might cost me 5 seconds.

Staying in the left lane means you will pass many cars sitting in the middle lane. If anyone legitimately in the middle lane (i.e after passing slow traffic) wants to move back left, all they need do is indicate. The sensible drivers in the left lane (who understand how a motorway works) will let them in.

At peak times it makes sense to use the middle and (sometimes) outside lanes, especially if the left lane is blocked by traffic queueing to exit. Just be sensible about it and get into the left lane in good time for your own exit.

There is no doubt that most M50 problems are caused by the middle lane hoggers. The number of supposedly professional drivers in commercial vehicles doing it is an utter disgrace.

Sam Kade

dunleakelleher wrote: »

you can indicate your intention to pull in even before you clear the car you are overtaking. the driver behind will see a flashing orange/yellow light that will tell him that you intend to pull over.

Not if they are up the arse of her car.