Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

beauf

Grolschevik wrote: »

This. Used to do a Dublin/Limerick run years ago, before the motorways. Used to be heavy on the right foot, trying to overtake everything because, you know, my girlfriend was down there and there was stuff to be done.

Then one Friday I couldn't be arsed. Cranked up the music, elbow on the window, hung back and cruised.

The time difference? Ten minutes. And way less stress.

Definitely less stressful.

smunchkins

Deleted User wrote: »

If there's an extended empty driving lane in front of me, often I will. If i can see the next car in the left lane, then I stay in the overtaking lane. More often than not you'll see the next car you're gonna pass before you're finished all your overtaking. Be rare to see an empty lane (unless you're out in the midlands etc. but rarely ever in dublin).

So long as I'm not obstructing anyone from passing, I see no issue with it, and will continue to do it forever more.

I see this quite a bit on my long drives (I do Dublin to West Cork each week, so get a lot of M50, M7, M8). What the poster may be completely unaware of is that the car they are oh so casually keeping on their left whilst they cruise along in a different lane might actually want to make their own manoeuvres around upcoming traffic, but have to constantly check their mirrors to gauge what lazybones is doing in the lane they'd like to eventually be in.

OP, I completely understand your description and you were absolutely in the right. There is very little mention of braking distance on this thread. Obliviousness to physics is a common theme among drivers. Others are suggesting using your indicators as shoehorns for you to cut in to the left lane early, again, not clever.
I find it dangerous when a car that has just overtaken me decides it will cut in front with 3 feet to spare. I always allow plenty of room before indicating my intention as every car is different with regards power and brakes.

In the last week on commutes I had one stupid undertaker on the M50. I was in the overtaking lane and wanted to get back in to the middle, but some taxi driver had his indicator on from the far left lane. He kept it on and on. I wasn't about to pull into a space he *might* be moving in to, but speedy gonzales behind me obviously didn't see it, and wanted past. So off he went.
Then another guy did the same thing with the merge off of PortLaois.

My car is not a big fan of hills, and so I always allow lots of space around me for deceleration if getting near them. Cruisers in the "fast lane" don't help, undertakers don't help (I get in as fast as I can that is safe) and people cutting in to my slow lane about 2 feet in front of me thinking they can just "nip in" don't either.
Someone earlier mentioned that brake light wave problem from a UK programme (Braking hard creates shockwaves that stop traffic further down the line). All the scrunched up invaders of personal space on roadways make the problems. Allowing 2 car spaces around you (if possible) allows for mergers, stops many congestion jams and means less fuel consumption (as you've enough time to take your foot of the accelerator and not use the brake).

We all just need a bit of peace and love on the road

First Up

smunchkins wrote:

In the last week on commutes I had one stupid undertaker on the M50. I was in the overtaking lane and wanted to get back in to the middle, but some taxi driver had his indicator on from the far left lane.

The middle lane is also an overtaking lane. The "far left" lane is the one you should be in unless overtaking.

smunchkins

First Up wrote: »

The middle lane is also an overtaking lane. The "far left" lane is the one you should be in unless overtaking.

Yes I am fully aware of that.
I assumed the drivers on here would know that too.
I do not need it pointed out to me.
I also thought it superfluous to mention I was overtaking someone slower than me from the middle lane, and then trying to merge back in to the middle before then getting across to the proper lane. Unless you would like me to cut across two lanes straight away in to the oncoming taxi?!
OP, you get a lot of "experts" on here who will mansplain things to you.
Like the regular driving you just have to go with the flow and drive safely.

smunchkins

OP 5 seconds was perfect too, RSA says 2 seconds between cars, 3 seconds to mirror, signal maneouvre, sounds right!
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf

Oh, for anyone interested, this is the traffic jam video about fighters and cheaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs

First Up

smunchkins wrote:

Yes I am fully aware of that. I assumed the drivers on here would know that too. I do not need it pointed out to me.

You reference to "'the" overtaking lane was a bit sloppy then.

smunchkins

First Up wrote: »

You reference to "'the" overtaking lane was a bit sloppy then.

Next time I'll be sure to include diagrams for those poor souls who have trouble understanding. :rolleyes:

First Up

smunchkins wrote:

Next time I'll be sure to include diagrams for those poor souls who have trouble understanding.

Correct terminology would be enough.

lawred2

smunchkins wrote: »

OP 5 seconds was perfect too, RSA says 2 seconds between cars, 3 seconds to mirror, signal maneouvre, sounds right!
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf

Oh, for anyone interested, this is the traffic jam video about fighters and cheaters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGFqfTCL2fs

Oh God that was boring

Zubeneschamali

NickNickleby wrote: »

I don't understand your point here. In my own case, I was at 110 and lane 2 was at 80-90. Are you saying that I should have either slowed to match lane 2, or change lane1> lane2 > lane3, then back to lane 2 back to lane1 ?

To stay legal, yes.

This is really not that hard to grasp, I quoted the law earlier.

dudeeile

smunchkins wrote: »

OP, you get a lot of "experts" on here who will mansplain things to you.

Ya do realise you are also one of those "experts"

smunchkins wrote: »

mansplain

sdanseo

firemansam4 wrote: »

She quite clearly stated that she was about to move back into the left lane after overtaking a car, but the car tailgating her moved into the left lane before she had a chance too.
When you overtake a car you are not supposed to cut straight back in, you have to give a bit of space to the car you have just overtaken, I guess some drivers dont have the patience for that.

In most cases I see on a 3 lane motorway, that problem wouldn't occur if the car you were overtaking was in Lane 1 instead of Lane 2.

siobhan08 wrote: »

Nope the root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obey the rules of the road. Main one being the speed limit. If you are in the left hand lane or the overtaking lane the speed limit is still 120

...and if someone is doing 95km/h in Lane 2, with Lane 1 empty, then you just sit behind them perpetually despite the fact that they're the one completely in the wrong and the root cause of the problem?

Not allowed undertake because it's dangerous.
Not allowed overtake because you'd be 10km/h over the speed limit for 30 seconds and that's dangerous too.

Rock and a hard place, and option two is the least of two evils.


I've told this story a few times, enough to be a broken record.
In college I did my thesis on Road Safety, specifically with relation to motorways in Ireland. As part of this I queried with the then NRA as to why we didn't use the VMS when there was nothing more important to display to advise drivers to keep left.
The answer was that this was "not part of an agreed strategy" between all the stakeholders - NRA, Gardaí, RSA etc.

What I don't understand is why not. Surely TII can see that lane discipline causes so many issues and if they can use VMS to warn about the tunnel speed trap and a queue at the M11 merge, why can't they use it to address a fundamental cause of the whole bloody mess?

smunchkins wrote: »

OP, you get a lot of "experts" on here who will mansplain things to you.

:rolleyes:

NickNickleby

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

To stay legal, yes.

This is really not that hard to grasp, I quoted the law earlier.

Indeed.

Perhaps you should be a teacher or driving instructor. You're obviously a fountain of knowledge in your own head. Although to be fair, I think temperament and communication might be an issue for you , given the tone of your previous comments.

Apart from this one (if you absolutely must) please don't reply to any more of my comments.

First Up

sdanseo wrote:

I've told this story a few times, enough to be a broken record. In college I did my thesis on Road Safety, specifically with relation to motorways in Ireland. As part of this I queried with the then NRA as to why we didn't use the VMS when there was nothing more important to display to advise drivers to keep left. The answer was that this was "not part of an agreed strategy" between all the stakeholders - NRA, Gardaí, RSA etc.

Astonishing - and troubling.

EIREDriver

I undertake nearly every day on the N7. It amazes me how little the left lane is used. It is not a case of me being impatient and under cutting people who are overtaking and slow to move back over. Come across drivers every day pottering along at 80km, oblivious to the lane to their left which is completely empty and to the queue of cars forming behind them.

Another annoying thing I've noticed is people indicating to move into an overtaking lane just as I am approaching in this lane. This leads a driver in my position to think that this person hasn't seen my car and are going to pull out in front of me. This then means a chain reaction of braking, just because this person wanted to get out right after I had passed. I did this in my driving test and tester pointed it out. Now that I experience it I realise how important correct use of signals are.

Eric Cartman

if somebody's undertaking you, you're most likely in the wrong lane, simples.

BrianD3

Anyway it is utter nonsense to suggest that if somebody had room to (attempt an) undercut that you didn't pull in quickly enough after an overtake. By that "logic" I suppose that it is fine to overtake a cyclist with 1 inch to spare as long as you don't hit him. After all, there was room :rolleyes:

It is good driving to leave room for cyclists just as it is good driving to leave space before pulling in after an overtake.

I'd love to see the reaction if I started a thread about overtaking lines of traffic by taking a couple of vehicles at a time and overtaking into "their" braking space in front of their vehicle. No doubt some of the same idiots attacking the OP for not cutting in on the vehicle being overtaken would then attack me for doing the opposite.

siobhan08

smunchkins wrote: »

OP, I completely understand your description and you were absolutely in the right. There is very little mention of braking distance on this thread. Obliviousness to physics is a common theme among drivers. Others are suggesting using your indicators as shoehorns for you to cut in to the left lane early, again, not clever.
I find it dangerous when a car that has just overtaken me decides it will cut in front with 3 feet to spare. I always allow plenty of room before indicating my intention as every car is different with regards power and brakes.

In the last week on commutes I had one stupid undertaker on the M50. I was in the overtaking lane and wanted to get back in to the middle, but some taxi driver had his indicator on from the far left lane. He kept it on and on. I wasn't about to pull into a space he *might* be moving in to, but speedy gonzales behind me obviously didn't see it, and wanted past. So off he went.
Then another guy did the same thing with the merge off of PortLaois.

My car is not a big fan of hills, and so I always allow lots of space around me for deceleration if getting near them. Cruisers in the "fast lane" don't help, undertakers don't help (I get in as fast as I can that is safe) and people cutting in to my slow lane about 2 feet in front of me thinking they can just "nip in" don't either.

Yes it annoys me a lot when I leave plenty of space between myselt and the car in front on me and the some bellend decided to cut into the space, which means my breaking distance is greatly reduced.

Another thing that annoys me, in particular on the M50 is when you are indicating to change lane and the vehicle you are attempting to merge over in front of decide to hit the accelerator and move into the space you were indicating your intention to move into.

smunchkins

First Up wrote: »

Correct terminology would be enough.

So you would prefer, the "over-over-taking lane" and then the "over-taking lane", yes, that makes it so much clearer :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by smunchkins View Post
OP, you get a lot of "experts" on here who will mansplain things to you.
Ya do realise you are also one of those "experts"

Ah no, I'd have to be a man to be an expert! :eek:
I have just detected a certain "tone" to some posts that one *might* not get were the OPs name not so obviously female.
All this "well you should have pulled over, getting in the way of us busy fast driving cars", and talking down about lack of Dublin driving experience.
Lets face it, men have more testosterone, which does make for different behaviour in a car and how they view a certain situation. Some of it better (spatially), some of it worse (aggression).
Women have different driving personas altogether. It is different, not better or worse than men. The aim is to get the best of both worlds for all drivers.

What does bug me are attitudes to the different driving styles, and talking down to people who come on here asking questions.

If everyone just relaxed a bit more and were not so aggressive and pedantic (see above!) then life would be a bit nicer. If you don't look, listen and learn from other drivers on the road, or think really hard about why a car might be doing what they are doing (we are not mind readers, it might just be the engine lost its turbo, not that they are a gombeen trying to ruin your day), then you are never going to improve your driving skills.

Space, time and respect, it really doesn't cost you anything but your pride.
Arrogance kills as much as speed does.

First Up

smunchkins wrote:

So you would prefer, the "over-over-taking lane" and then the "over-taking lane", yes, that makes it so much clearer

Any form of words that showed awareness of motorway design and function would be fine.

smunchkins

First Up wrote: »

Any form of words that showed awareness of motorway design and function would be fine.

:rolleyes:
Oh dear, I'm so stooopid
:rolleyes:

Tigger

two cars did not under take someone driving at 95 mph
it did not happen

Tell me how

Tigger wrote:

two cars did not under take someone driving at 95 mph it did not happen

Finally, some sense.

siobhan08

Tigger wrote: »

two cars did not under take someone driving at 95 mph
it did not happen

1) It was a van and mercedes car... so not two cars
2) At no time have I said the two vehicles undertook me during the same incident. Most of my post have referred to an incident with a van. The mercedes incident happen on a seperate day

McCrack

The OP is on a wind up

So a young one from the country first week driving on the big road but 8 years driving and she overtakes and then suddenly out of nowhere a big white van undertakes her at about 180kmh after she finished her overtaking...

Im going to bed

Ash.J.Williams

siobhan08 wrote: »

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurance around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply becase they were impatient.

it certainly isn't confined to dublin....There will be a fatal multi car pile up at kildare some sunday evening and that is a fact.

I'm up and down the country every week and i always leave a decent gap between myself and the car in front, unfortunately this sends out a signal to people that they must undertake me ...force themselves into the gap ....and then hit the brakes forcing me to hit mine......I must add i'm not hogging the outer lane either i'm usually in a long overtake....

Sam Kade

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if somebody's undertaking you, you're most likely in the wrong lane, simples.

Did you even read the op?

dbagman

Ash.J.Williams wrote:

I'm up and down the country every week and i always leave a decent gap between myself and the car in front, unfortunately this sends out a signal to people that they must undertake me ...force themselves into the gap ....and then hit the brakes forcing me to hit mine......I must add i'm not hogging the outer lane either i'm usually in a long overtake....

Careful now, the concept of a long overtake is lost on some.....youre meant to keep jumping in and out of the left lane.......apparently.

The Bishop Basher

siobhan08 wrote: »

Yes it annoys me a lot when I leave plenty of space between..

siobhan08 wrote: »

Another thing that annoys me, in particular on the M50 is when you are indicating to change lane..

With respect siobhan08..

Seems a an awful lot of things are annoying you.. Almost a touch of victim mentality.. Like everyone is out to get you..

They're really not though.. it's much better to chill and learn to keep yourself safe while staying out of harms way.. People will be nuts.. You can't control them.. Only yourself and your own behaviour.. Anything else is wasted energy..

I drove home from the airport this evening having just come from Germany. The difference in driving standards is stark. The M50 is utter chaos in comparison. But as i sat behind a very slow overtaker in lane 3 i thought of this thread. Just at that moment they indicated and continued to pass another couple of cars before moving left and i thought to myself that really was the difference between a good experience and the one you had. Had you indicated, the impatient driver behind would likely have given you a little more time, But you didn't indicate and for all they knew you were just another lane hogger who could have sat their all day..

If they really did pass you at 180 kph they should lose their licence but i think we all know that isn't true.. I don't doubt that they undertook you but you as above, have zero control over that. You do however have control over that indicator stalk by your hand..

Blaming others takes time and energy away from improving yourself. Learn from the situation and move on.

Allinall

Swanner wrote: »

With respect siobhan08..

Seems a an awful lot of things are annoying you.. Almost a touch of victim mentality.. Like everyone is out to get you..

They're really not though.. it's much better to chill and learn to keep yourself safe while staying out of harms way.. People will be nuts.. You can't control them.. Only yourself and your own behaviour.. Anything else is wasted energy..

I drove home from the airport this evening having just come from Germany. The difference in driving standards is stark. The M50 is utter chaos in comparison. But as i sat behind a very slow overtaker in lane 3 i thought of this thread. Just at that moment they indicated and continued to pass another couple of cars before moving left and i thought to myself that really was the difference between a good experience and the one you had. Had you indicated, the impatient driver behind would likely have given you a little more time, But you didn't indicate and for all they knew you were just another lane hogger who could have sat their all day..

If they really did pass you at 180 kph they should lose their licence but i think we all know that isn't true.. I don't doubt that they undertook you but you as above, have zero control over that. You do however have control over that indicator stalk by your hand..

Blaming others takes time and energy away from improving yourself. Learn from the situation and move on.

Must go down as the most patronizing post of the day.

Well done.