Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

GreeBo · 09-01-2018 10:46am

First Up wrote: »

unwisely due to impatience/irritation.
.

That's all you needed to post tbh.

If you can't control your impatience and irritation then you shouldn't be on the road causing accidents.

it also doesn't entitle you to pass on the left.

First Up · 09-01-2018 11:03am

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

unwisely due to impatience/irritation.
.

That's all you needed to post tbh.

If you can't control your impatience and irritation then you shouldn't be on the road causing accidents.

it also doesn't entitle you to pass on the left.

Oh dear. I think we need a new category of licence (for people like you) that says "Valid for driving in ideal conditions only".

But you keep wagging your finger and we'll all be grand.

GreeBo · 09-01-2018 11:13am

First Up wrote: »

Oh dear. I think we need a new category of licence (for people like you) that says "Valid for driving in ideal conditions only".

But you keep wagging your finger and we'll all be grand.

Ideal conditions would be ones where other drivers don';t make impatient/irritated maneuvers and causes crashes (and then blame other road users)

If you cant safely get into lane 3, heres an idea, wait until you can!

Be accountable and responsible for your driving.

How do you guys manage on roads where everyone drivers correctly?

Often lane 1 & 2 can be busy with significant traffic also in lane 3, how do you cope?
Hard shoulder time?

GreeBo · 09-01-2018 12:56pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

Says who?

Because this is really the crux of your position: the interpretation of 'normal' v 'slow moving'.

+1
If "normal speed" meant "speed limit" then the regulations would state "speed-limit" as there would be no room for interpretation on different roads etc.

Sean Kinvarra · 09-01-2018 1:02pm

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Oh dear. I think we need a new category of licence (for people like you) that says "Valid for driving in ideal conditions only".

But you keep wagging your finger and we'll all be grand.

Ideal conditions would be ones where other drivers don';t make impatient/irritated maneuvers and causes crashes (and then blame other road users)

If you cant safely get into lane 3, heres an idea, wait until you can!

Be accountable and responsible for your driving.

How do you guys manage on roads where everyone drivers correctly?

Often lane 1 & 2 can be busy with significant traffic also in lane 3, how do you cope?
Hard shoulder time?

No law on bikers lane filtering either! ðŸ˜

beauf · 09-01-2018 1:08pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Id...How do you guys manage on roads where everyone drivers correctly?...

In thick fog your interpretation infers its legal and correct to to stick to the posted limits.

Sean Kinvarra · 09-01-2018 2:00pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Grolschevik wrote: »

Says who?

Because this is really the crux of your position: the interpretation of 'normal' v 'slow moving'.

+1
If "normal speed" meant "speed limit" then the regulations would state "speed-limit" as there would be no room for interpretation on different roads etc.

I've previously explained to you the meaning of wording of the Rules of the Road. Where the words "Must/Must Not are used it makes that rule law.
You MUST NOT overtake when:

You are in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at "NORMAL" speed.

First Up · 09-01-2018 2:25pm

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Oh dear. I think we need a new category of licence (for people like you) that says "Valid for driving in ideal conditions only".

But you keep wagging your finger and we'll all be grand.

Ideal conditions would be ones where other drivers don';t make impatient/irritated maneuvers and causes crashes (and then blame other road users)

Exactly, and good drivers see what is going on around them, anticipate events and take preventitive/evasive action to reduce risk.

trellheim · 09-01-2018 2:47pm

939 posts and not much sense here on both sides. Why, exactly do people regularly contribute to this ? What light do you hope to come from it ?

First Up · 09-01-2018 3:08pm

trellheim wrote: »

939 posts and not much sense here on both sides. Why, exactly do people regularly contribute to this ? What light do you hope to come from it ?

A bit of enlightenment maybe, or (if we are being really ambitious) someone in the RSA finally taking the issue of lane hogging seriously.

But perhaps you can fill the sense gap for us?

trellheim · 09-01-2018 7:36pm

A bit of enlightenment maybe, or (if we are being really ambitious) someone in the RSA finally taking the issue of lane hogging seriously.

But perhaps you can fill the sense gap for us?

Plenty of people here to post the heat but not any clarification , just like the last 20 times this thread was done

Not sure I can add anything that anybody would listen to; this thread is unlike most threads in C&T because no-one is really listening to each other but really doing megaphone diplomacy.

beauf · 09-01-2018 8:24pm

I'm not sure what you mean.

Is clear people think they can undertake at any time regardless of speed which is wrong.

However it's also wrong to say you can't ever undertake, or that there are fixed speed for driving when it's stated clearly that you can undertake in certain conditions and that appropriate speed is relative to conditions and other traffic.

But none of this is useful if you are trying to justify bad driving habits. Be that dangerous undertaking or lane hogging.

This is all reflected in driver behaviour on the road.

Sean Kinvarra · 09-01-2018 9:24pm

Its not the undertaking that's dangerous, its the weaving from lane to lane before and after the undertaking is dangerous and is also illegal. Its the same with overtaking.
Some people say its illegal because a vehicle in lane to the right may change to left without checking their mirrors and collide. With that logic then shouldn't it be illegal to go through a green light because you might get someone coming from left or right going through a red light. Why is it legal for bikers to lane filter yet according to experts on here illegal for other vehicles to pass on inside?.

First Up · 09-01-2018 11:11pm

trellheim wrote: »

Not sure I can add anything that anybody would listen to; this thread is unlike most threads in C&T because no-one is really listening to each other but really doing megaphone diplomacy.

On the contrary. It has been a spirited discussion with positions taken and challenged.

If you have a contribution (either way) you are welcome to make it and I'm sure it will be given the same consideration as any other - on its merits.

beauf · 09-01-2018 11:12pm

Kinvarra - Because none of those situations are at similar...

You're as bad as each other....

the_pen_turner · 09-01-2018 11:18pm

can both sides agree that we both think that undertaking a driver that is going 10kph is ok and perfectly legal, and that it is not ok to under take someone that is doing 120 kph

now all we want is to narrow that down and have a point at which it changes

Nate--IRL-- · 09-01-2018 11:26pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

can both sides agree that we both think that undertaking a driver that is going 10kph is ok and perfectly legal, and that it is not ok to under take someone that is doing 120 kph

now all we want is to narrow that down and have a point at which it changes

50km/hr was given earlier by Greebo I believe. He didn't distinguish on a differential however.

EDIT:- I don't recall if a relevant statute was quoted to support his number though.

Nate

beauf · 09-01-2018 11:39pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

can both sides agree that we both think that undertaking a driver that is going 10kph is ok and perfectly legal, and that it is not ok to under take someone that is doing 120 kph

now all we want is to narrow that down and have a point at which it changes

There's a reason a green light doesn't mean go.

Because in the real world you're not mean to drive by the book and leave common sense behind.

Sean Kinvarra · 09-01-2018 11:43pm

beauf wrote: »

Kinvarra - Because none of those situations are at similar...

You're as bad as each other....

????? What situations. Lane filtering IS overtaking and undertaking at the same time. And there is no law against it.

the_pen_turner · 09-01-2018 11:44pm

beauf wrote: »

There's a reason a green light doesn't mean go.

Because in the real world you're not mean to drive by the book and leave common sense behind.

I agree
but there has to be a point at which it changes. that will change with conditions etc

the_pen_turner · 09-01-2018 11:46pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

50km/hr was given earlier by Greebo I believe. He didn't distinguish on a differential however.

EDIT:- I don't recall if a relevant statute was quoted to support his number though.

Nate

that was quickly shown to be useless

Henry Ford III · 10-01-2018 12:02am

The courts (if a case ever came to them) will make a decision based on statute or common law using whatever sources are available. It's obvious what "slow moving" means in the case of undertaking, even if it's not defined in legislation.

It has been defined in a non statutory definition in the UK (which has largely similar road traffic legislation) as meaning "stop/start" conditions.

So I'd be pretty sure an attempted defense of undertaking at say 100kph would not wash.

GreeBo · 10-01-2018 12:11am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

that was quickly shown to be useless

It was based on the only data available, namely the:
Legislation says slow, motorway sign defines slow vehicles as under 50kph.

If I was pulled for passing on the left at 50kph, that's what is be using to defend myself.

Then again, the only time you see 50kph on the motorways is when traffic is queuing, so either way there is no issue.

I don't think anyone has used that logic and failed, so to call it useless is a little presumptuous...

GarIT · 10-01-2018 12:20am

GreeBo wrote: »

Legislation says slow,

Doesn't the updated legislation say slower and not slow. Which would mean anyone not travelling at the same speed as you.

GreeBo · 10-01-2018 12:36am

GarIT wrote: »

Doesn't the updated legislation say slower and not slow. Which would mean anyone not travelling at the same speed as you.

No it doesn't say that.

Seth Brundle · 10-01-2018 1:08am

GreeBo wrote: »

It was based on the only data available, namely the:
Legislation says slow, motorway sign defines slow vehicles as under 50kph.

FFS the sign has no legal standing when it comes to passing on the left so stop bringing it up!

Irish Steve · 10-01-2018 1:14am

kbannon wrote: »

FFS the sign has no legal standing when it comes to passing on the left so stop bringing it up!

Most of this thread has no relevance to passing on the left, but it refuses to die gracefully.

GM228 · 10-01-2018 1:33am

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

That link is where a car undertook slow moving traffic using the same lane and I assume part of the hard shoulder. He may have got away with it if the overtaken cars were indicating to take the next right turn. Rediculious comparing that to a multi lane dual carraigeway.

Where did I make such a comparison? Passing on the left is passing on the left, the law does not require for lanes to be present or not for those laws to apply.

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

A garda will not stop a motorist for undertaking.

Yes they do, it just isn't as common as it should be and isn't publicated as much as it should be.

Here's one example, on the M50 of all places:-
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/535122853637939200

I love one of their reply Tweets:-
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/535129776538009601

And it would appear to be the initial reason why Gardai were going to stop Stephen Burke on the N11 in 2016 before he tried to get away from them:-
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/dangerous-driving-case-will-proceed-35697474.html

beauf · 10-01-2018 1:52am

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

Kinvarra - Because none of those situations are at similar...

You're as bad as each other....

????? What situations. Lane filtering IS overtaking and undertaking at the same time. And there is no law against it.

No you can only do it certain situations and conditions.

How hard is it for you and beebo to understand if you drive in ignorance or those conditions you'll be done for dangerous driving or worse kill people.

You are like cyclists who ride into the blind spots of trucks thinking having the right of way will save them... but the book said....

GM228 · 10-01-2018 2:07am

GreeBo wrote: »

It was based on the only data available, namely the:
Legislation says slow, motorway sign defines slow vehicles as under 50kph.

If I was pulled for passing on the left at 50kph, that's what is be using to defend myself.

Then again, the only time you see 50kph on the motorways is when traffic is queuing, so either way there is no issue.

I don't think anyone has used that logic and failed, so to call it useless is a little presumptuous...

The motorway sign is not law and actually has no relevance to the law - for example the law does not say no slow vehicles, there is no minimum speed limit on a motorway and nothing to define 50 km/h or less as slow, all the law states is vehicles which are not capable of doing 50 km/h, not that they have to.

Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

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