Home heating automation

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123911682#Comment_123911682

Try IFTTT, it has integration to Neohub. You can have up to two active IFTTT applets free, though you can write and save more than two. Applets can have date time event automation. I've only ever used it with Tado integration, until Tado retired their IFTTT. I'm assuming your heatmiser stats are visible via the Neohub?

hold my beer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123911756#Comment_123911756

Yeah stats visible in neohub. Will have a look at IFTTT cheers

Paulzx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910404#Comment_123910404

I was easily getting well over a year out of the wiser stats when i was using them. The Wiser TRVs don't last as long obviously due to the power draw when actuating the valves but i still get 6 to 12 months from a set of batteries

galaxy12

For some reason their seems to be no option to buy their 2nd gen hub with stats in Ireland .I can see this option listed only on their UK website .

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123915283#Comment_123915283

You can buy the stats individually. It will cost a fair bit more. A few posts ago one of the lads here bought that way, when the kit was out of stock, a mixture of Amazon.ie and Grange builders.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123915348#Comment_123915348

From a quick look I'm seeing the 2nd gen hub as just a Zigbee wireless hub, theres no mains relays on board to switch valves, so you would need three wiser mains switched outlets to use this.

mik_da_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910404#Comment_123910404

Batteries on the stats depends on the signal they have, I've ones with low signal are replaced after 8 months, while others have been in well over 12 months now

galaxy12

Thanks Deezell

The 3 channel gen2 Hub*R* does seem to have relay with an upgrades ZigBee mesh .

There is probably another gen2 hub which has no relays ?

I could be wrong though..

https://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/sites/default/files/2025-04/Wiser%202nd%20Gen%20Datasheet%20WEB.pdf

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123915848#Comment_123915848

Spot on, there is relayless version, but also three versions to replace Kit1, 2 and 3. I could only find one priced supplier for kit3 (product no. CCTFR6313G2D), £159, say €200 plus delivery to get it here with our vat, and duty if its not UK made

deezell

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/5389114-wiser-smart-3-channel-2nd-generation-hub

Nothing showing up in the Irish version of CEF, maybe a call to their store to enquire. RADIONICS have the single zone version, no sign of 2 or 3. Amazon.ie likewise.

galaxy12

There is a sale ongoing on the Drayton UK website for the kit3 2nd gen hub with 2 stats for about 211 GBP.

Great value with shipment from ooh around 15 euros .

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/products/2nd-generation-3-channel-smart-thermostat-kit

deezell

Sale didnt last long. £352.80 there now, that's €407, €422 with delivery and I presume pick up in Newry? No delivery outside the UK on that site. The standard Kit 3 is €180 in screwfix now, so you've €242 in the kitty to buy the 2nd gen HubR 3 relay, when it becomes available here. Stats are the same.

galaxy12

With the code they have on top of their website it's for 211 GBP and still available.I checked that delivery via .postalpickup is 13 euros

That around 250 euros for the whole kit delivered .

deezell

Ah, I didnt notice. That's probably closer to the retail pricei it should be. £211.68 is €244 give or take a few cent, plus €13 is €257? I'm assuming thats to the border of Muff, where you can collect it. That would be a long expensive drive. I've read before on reddit about NI collection depots, with vague mentions of 'forwarding' from the postalpickup one, presumably to the Republic, but this risks another 23% VAT, on the total of €257 and the forwarding cost, and possibly duty if the kits aren't entirely made in the UK. You'd get a message from Fastway or whoever the courier is that it's been assessed, and they'll not only hold it until its paid, but will apply their own fee on top. Could end up costing in the region of €380-400, and very difficult to return. Fine if it slips through, but its essentially smuggled then

It's daft, EU manufactured goods sourced from the UK attract customs, 10% ?, though they're moving back into the EU. Probably better to wait till it appears on Amazon UK, which at least remove UK VAT before applying Irish VAT, and is legit, so there are few surprises, and its delivered direct. Better again to wait till it hits Amazon.ie, which it surely will when stocks build up. Buying from the UK, legitimately, is still a brexit nightmare.

Roberto_gas

Don't forget 20% off screwfix purchase on new App

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123932466#Comment_123932466

Well spotted! I need to replace 40 year old 5ft fluorescent tubes in the garage. (I don't reeeally need to, I want to 😁). The 5' indoor/outdoor led battens have 25% off, only €30.

mel123

Looking for some advice, the parents need smart heating.

Kitchen/living room UFH with an old non digital thermostat, thats one zone (3 in the pic). The rest of the house is radiators, no thermostats so just on or off, zone 2 upstairs, zone 1 downstairs. Combi boiler, Vokera Compact 29. Pics attached. They are not too fussed about downstairs radiators and upstairs radiators but I defo need to change the kitchen/living room for them. And before anyone says it, my mother is older and cant even fathom leaving UFH on 24/7, so we let her run it whatever way she wants.

I had a look at this, and I think its what im looking for, but i cant be sure. Any advice would be much appreciated. The below seems easy to do DIY. And i guess i could also buy the thermostats for rads as add on's later?!?

heating1.jpg

heating 2.jpg

heating 3.jpg

tado° Smart Thermostat Starter Kit V3+ - Intelligent heating control

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123945958#Comment_123945958

The Tado Wireless starter kit (or any of the wireless smart stat packages such as Drayton wiser, Hive, and some others) can be installed be simply by placing the receiver beside your current 3 zone timer, and diverting the required Zone's switched live output wire to the Tado. The other two zones remain on the CTC timer. These too can have their control transferred to a wireless thermostat/receiver kit, but there are some limitations depending on brand as how you might achieve this. Some brands are limited to one or two wireless switched zones. The older Tado V3 usually can only have one wireless reciver, with other zones requiring wired thermostats with a cable running to and from the current timer location. A wired Tado thermostat however can be used as a dumb relay switch for a wireless thermostat sensor, but this require buying two thermostats per individual Zone.

Hive can be installed as a set of three thermostats each with their own receiver, making it easier to upgrade all three zones Drayton wiser can do this with a two channel CH receiver, plus an extra single channel receiver. The plumbers favourites are the Ember system, they have a three channel receiver which can take 3 wireless CH thermostats, and though their Smart credentials and control. may not be leading edge, you would still have Internet access over all three zones.

If you really only want to smarten up the UFH, the Tado is recommended for UFH control, which can have very different response characteristics to radiator provided heat. The newer TadoX may be more flexible in terms of switched wireless zones, some of the details of its operation are sketchy. A Singe zone Hive or Drayton wiser will do the job also.

The use of smart radiator valves can create individual zones, but you would still need a relay to turn the boiler on when any one of them 'calls for heat' within their plumbed zone (upstairs, downstairs, etc.) This relay is usually the wireless receiver or wired thermostat for that zone, and smart radiator thermostat (TRV) based installations are often based on a single relay for all heating zones. Your setup has three.

Have you checked that there is only timer control for the UFH? Is there any sign of a simple wall thermostat in its location. What's that unit sitting over the CTC timer, its not a receiver for a stat somewhere?

niallb

Hive TRVs allow you to pick which relay to inform when they call for heat.

That was extra handy for me because some of our rooms are on the hot water zone valve as the older part of the house has a back boiler with a gravity fed loop including three rads…. Hive's hot water zone isn't temperature triggered. It's on a schedule or manual.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123948340#Comment_123948340

Most of the smart stats offer HW timing only, and you use a mechanical stat on the cylinder to interrupt this schedule when the tank stat reaches a set value, usually 55-60°. There's no benefit or logic really in having an online adjustable tank thermostat. Ember do have such a stat, so you can set the preferred HW stat temperature remotely rather than reaching into the hot press to twiddle the mechanical one. I think you can still only programme time schedules, but not variable HW temperatures. Why would you want to anyway.

deezell

As regards more than one wireless stat communicating with more than one relay to switch zone valves say, and Tados v3 limitation of a single HW relay on their wireless 'extension kit' receiver, I'm reading that you can enable the new Tado X stats to switch third party relays that use the 'Matter' device 'Thread' protocol. This would suggest that any number of Tado X thermostat sensors should be able to communicate with cheap relays which are ,"Matter' enabled, and thus have multiple zones without the need to install wired in thermostats back to the zone valves, which be a big pith. One for the new adopters, who've bought TadoX.

niallb

Hi@deezell . I agree that this kind of control should not normally be needed.

I have a separate temperature sensor half way down the tank that I can read remotely (sonoff).
When the tank has enough water to provide two showers it reads about 40,
but there's plenty of hot water for all other usage when it reads 32.
I still take the tank up to a safe heat level early every Saturday morning.

I also have twin daughters who don't live at home anymore, but are often here (most often on a Saturday morning). Using the temperature reading gives happier results than adjusting the schedule every time and it doesn't matter what heat source I use. As I mentioned further back, I also need to take into account the fact that my "hot water" valve also controls 4 radiators, so it's not so easy to just take it offline on a timer. 🙄

deezell

Do you use the sonoff as a switch as well as a sensor to call the HW Zone valve (assuming the HW timer schedule is 'on'. It would be easy to wire it in series.

niallb

I don't use it as a switch directly since it would turn off some rads too.

I tie the lot together using Home Assistant and use the sensor to drop the "Call for Heat" from the tank.
If there's no other "Call for Heat" from one of the TRVs or room stat (non Hive zigbee) that are on that zone, the request is passed to the hive controller to close off the valve.

mel123

Thanks @deezell for the reply and knowledge. The box on top of it is a bell just resting there. The one thermostat is in the kitchen/living room (where they sit all the time), and its an old school dial type.

So I have some questions if you dont mind, as i am still a little confused on the technology.

1. If it was you, which would you buy?
2. I assume if it was you, you would buy one that heats all three zones from the get go?
3. Do i need an electrician for installing or are these pretty easy to DIY now (my Dad would be nifty, i would know one end of a wire from the other)

Really appreciate your expertise and taking the time to reply to people in this sub

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123951134#Comment_123951134

The wired dial thermostat in the living kitchen is for the UFH zone I'd have to assume, so a wired thermostat can be used here, and is a simple DIY, there will most likely be just two wires behind this stat. Tado wired starter kit ideal here, to give timed and temperature control of the UFH.

1. Tado one of the few who do a wired smart thermostat. I'd recommend that to fulfill your initial request.
2. If it was for me yes, but for elderly parents, I'd go with just the one for the UFH at the moment.
3. Dad will love the challenge, two wire job, and turn UFH zone on the timer on full as Tado takes over all control.

I do all that sort of thing for my adult family, though they're all tech boffins, but you can't plumb a valve, replace a wheel bearing or install a satellite dish with a keyboard. Once the stat is on the wall and the app is up and running, he might even eye up the two other zones still on the timer.

mel123

thank you, so this looks like the one to do the job? https://amzn.eu/d/3ROMPYx

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123951787#Comment_123951787

That's it. About €148, from amazon UK Screwfix €159, but see what you think of these suppliers, €115 with delivery.

https://groupsumi.ie/climate-control/climate-control-accessories/thermostat/tado-v3-wired-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-st-kit-v3

They have the new Tado X wired kit for €117.89 delivered.

https://groupsumi.ie/climate-control/climate-control-accessories/thermostat/tado-x-wired-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-st-kit-x-pro

I've not used them before. But thems bargain prices.

Dozz

Any benefit having the X over the V3 thermostats?

Thinking of upgrading

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123952122#Comment_123952122

1. Stock of the original V3 will eventually dwindle till X is the only show in town.
2. V3 not compatible in protocol or on the app with X
3. They have the new 'Matter' standard of iot, using the 'Thread' common communications protocol, so will connect to other devices and controlling software, apparently.
4. The X TRV's have a super cool end on cylinder design. They use small Li batteries, rechargeable with standard phone chargers.
5. They should allow for more versatile configurations of zones.
6. TADO is to enable its software to integrate with the coming 'dynamic tariffs' and the heating hardware and probably the battery storage to enable finely optimised energy use and consumption cost. One for the future, ad those with heatpumps, solar, batteries etc.