Home heating automation

deezell

https://www.amazon.ie/Wiser-Drayton-Thermostat-Heating-Radiator/dp/B0DNK2CZFV/ref%3Dmp_s_a_1_5?crid=1P0EQYJ7X6AIQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.CDeUzRn3Xy2toC5eg363kFSyaCDvqZusInppBAem1DyzfXzkE4JFcRBcTbezJZk-cSbAdQ1ExPSMvVbjA9_qy94oDL2jYLR1t03t9vv5lZuVx_Zg8tagjpQfqxRqghsCX-6V4VP64AWvErEfbu5Lrzdg3GCFi-3P8kuYLaF_jXxXJhCDZNCo7ye8bJh97Xmg40NMRUnwYftAlOYkNnz8VA.pl4J19CKBkwOml5vOaymu6Q6tcW24R6D42rfXOFoXoQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=drayton+kit+3&qid=1759350557&sprefix=drayton+kit+3%2Caps%2C51&sr=8-5

This is a Kit 2 plus another pair of trvs and a smart plug from Irish Amazon.ie . I don't know why they've no Kit3 listed, but for €255 you're getting Kit 2 for maybe €130 when you value the extra trvs and the smart plug. Thing is, if you're going full TRV deployment, you can go single zone as the the TRVs negate the need for up/down zones. You wire the single CH relay to open both zone valves for any TRV activity, and only the opened TRVs will allow their rads to heat. Kit 2 has HW relay also.

Heiser

Is there anyway through the Drayton Wiser or otherwise to increase the temperature of my DHW?

Whatever way my Gloworm 30s Energy is set up it doesn't heat the water very hot. Thermostat is set to 70, so it's not that. Flow temp is 65c. If I heat the water for an hour it will result in a lukewarm shower. If I put the hot water on for 3 hours it will start getting very hot, but it shouldn't be taking that long surely?

RogerThis

I'd rather have the two zones separately.

grange.ie have the Wiser Heat Hubr Three Channel for €86.09 and the Wiser Room Thermostat for €74.99.

amazon.ie has the Wiser Room Thermostat for €59, not a bad price.

https://www.amazon.ie/Schneider-Electric-CCTFR6400-Zigbee-Iiaison/dp/B08RB2NLRN

RogerThis

Would it be better to get the 2nd gen hub?

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/products/wiser-2nd-generation-hubr-3-channel

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123868692#Comment_123868692

Wiser will just instruct the zone valves to open, whose relays then fire the boiker when any zone valve is open. You'll need to check theres no restrictions on the flow path from the boiler to the HW cylinder. Check that the HW zone valve is opening fully. If its sticking, flow will be restricted, but also the HW zone valve relay wont close, so you may only be getting HW heat transfer when a CH zone is on at the same time and firing the boiler. The circulation pump is built into the system boiler, it should be hoofing the flow around the circuit. Put your hand on the hot flow pipe into the HW cylinder coil, then use the app to turn on HW only, no CH. See how long it takes the HW to reach the top of the coil inlet

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123868695#Comment_123868695

That'll do it for only a few € more than the kit3.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123868715#Comment_123868715

Only if its an improvement on the first. I'd imagine if you're buying new thats what you'd get anyway, but you might be getting old stock as 2nd gen only introduced in June. It might explain all the bargain kits that were available.

It has Zigbee connectivity to other smart home devices if you have any, and it can operate from the app by direct connection in the event the Internet is down., other features like away mode weather compensation and boiler plus ( just a version of PIR operating) are also listed, but these may have already been available on the 1st version?

mik_da_man

Perhaps more of a plumbing question but I'll try here,

Got the Wiser TRVs and went to swap over the heads from old existing Orkli ones. Found out that my valves are 28mm not the 30mm that Wiser need.

Got one adapter but it's did not fit so struggling to figure out my best move now.

The "pin" on the valve looks much longer that others I've seen ..

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873015#Comment_123873015

These odd valves came up here before. The Tado adapter list is one of the best., attached. It lists this adapter for Orkli. Adapter name: 6296/3 EAN: 4011395232583

It's listed on Amazon, out of stock.

https://amzn.eu/d/fTBFfe7

You might be better off replacing your valves with M30 standard.

Smart_Radiator_Thermostat-Compatibility_Guide-EN-V1-1.pdf

deezell

This crowd has them. Expensive.

https://smartkram.de/shop/heizung-lueftung-klima/heizsysteme/ventiladapter/busch-jaeger-ventiladapter-orkli-wireless-6296-3/?srsltid=AfmBOoqysWP2xKjBZMiCi0fEJfd6d80zP998ArPJKQ-p2DhN1zfg6HdV

deezell

You can get M30 compression trv valve body only for €7-10 if you shop around, might be better than ugly Adapters if you've a lot of rads. Here's some over in Ballycoolin.

https://www.laceys.ie/online-store/TRV-Body-15mm-Compression-p695389732?

mik_da_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873116#Comment_123873116

Great, thanks.

Looks like Amazon Ireland has them, so will try those.

https://amzn.eu/d/9SuSAtH

Changing the valves is probably the best solution but not something I'd take on myself with 17 rads.. 🤣

deezell

Stevensons in Bangor also a good source for a bulk buy if you're doing a lot of rads. As little as €6.41 without the nuts and olives, but you'd need to be sure if you're converting existing non trv valves or replacing non M30x1.5 trv valves, that they have the same compression nut thread. Otherwise you have to remove pipe olives to change the compression nuts.

https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/myson-trv-thermostatic-radiator-valve-body-only.html

deezell

Under a tenner each, no brainer so. Amazon.ie has made a lot of stuff easer to get than faffing on the UK site, especially since Brexit. Are you doing all 17 ? 😬

mik_da_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123873429#Comment_123873429

Gonna do 12 for sure, some are in unused rooms so can skip them for now, but eventually would probably do all of them.

RogerThis

I'm having problems with the wiring after wiring up the Wiser 3-channel, and I hope someone can help.

1. Power Neutral
2. Boiler Neutral
3. Power Live
4. Pump Heating Zone 1
5. Boiler Live
6. Pump Hot Water
7. Pump Heating Zone 2

I need to turn on the Hot Water to turn on the Boiler, so the zoned heating can work.

Is there any way around this?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123877035#Comment_123877035

You have a problem. Your zones are pumped not zone valves. Zone valves have a relay which collectively call the boiler, the three relay outputs are joined, and any zone valve will call the boiler. i can't recollect your system if you posted it, but a three zone pumped system would have needed a relay or 'lex' wiring box to achieve independent calling of each zone.

RogerThis

Thanks, deezell, I have jumped the gun a bit so.

I'm sorry, I don't know what a relay or 'lex' wiring box is.

How easy is this to add to my system?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123877920#Comment_123877920

Easy Peasy. The systemlex box in the link below has push fit connectors, each zone has a permanent live push fit, loop out/in for a timer, loop out/in for stat contacts, switched live output for a pump, and a neutral. The system has boiler output relay contacts which close for any zone live in on the return stat connection (this is where the Wiser CH SLs are connected, terminals 1 and 3 stamped on the wiser).

Terminal 2 for HW could go the timer terminal return for that zone, allowing you to loop a HW cylinder stat before the SL into the unit, otherwise wire as for CH. There are also auxiliary relays to enable other switching scenarios, such as when you might have a stove boiler as well as a gas/oil boiler.

I have a similar looking neutraliser to your one, mine made by NRG systems, It has a really nice clip on foam insulating jacket. I've only two pumped zones out of three, (it was too difficult to seperate bedroom pipes in a bungalow with concrete floors), but I've two heat sources, stove and oil. The aux relays allow the stove stat to interrupt oil heating when the stove reaches trigger temperature and its pump delivers hot flow to the neutralised. The oil boiler and its pump is muted during this transfer, and the neutraliset prevents any back flows between boiler and stove.

There are other versions of this wiring box, and you could obviously replicate it with four 220v/220v mains relays, some connector strip, a plastic cabiet box and perhaps a few fuses, but this ready made box acts as complete wiring centre, making for simple maintenance and understanding of the circuits.

https://krib.ie/product/systemlex/

galaxy12

I’m looking for some advice on replacing our old Horstmann heating controller and 2 thermostats with an alternative smart controllers.

The downstairs heating buttons on the our old Horstmann h37xl have stopped working, and at the moment we just use the boost function for an hour or two at a time for each zone and normally that's enough to heat up the house.

We have 3 zones for HW ,Down and Upstairs heating

All the radiators already have TRVs, so I don’t need smart radiator valves or anything too fancy. I’d just like something reliable that:

Supports 2 heating zones and separate for Hot water

Lets me boost heating/hot water easily

Has a decent app (bonus if it shows some energy history/stats)

Doesn’t require a subscription

Our boiler is a Viessmann Vitodens 100D. and a plumber who just serviced it recommended EPH smart heating controls, which he has installed before. The installation quote is around €200.

Before I go ahead, I wanted to check if there are other good alternatives around the same price range as EPH that would work well with my setup ?

Also, does anyone know how the old controller and thermostats are removed? Would I need to get an electrician involved for that part, or should the plumber handle it?

Please pm if anyone knows someone in Dublin who can do this including removing the old heating controls .

deezell

You don't say if you have existing wall thermostats for the hearing zones. If not then wireless thermostats with a replacement controller offer the best upgrade option. The Drayton Wiser Kit3 is a straightforward replacement for an existing three zone wired controller like the Horstmann. Removal of the Horstmann and replacement with the Wiser controller (also referred to as the 'HubR') is a job for an electrician or a person competent with domestic wiring wall points. The wall thermostats are battery powered and can be placed in any suitable location. If you do have existing wired wall stats, these can be removed and their inner two wires linked together,it just urning them up full will have the same effect.

Switching of the zones heating will take place in the Wiser HubR controller, addressed by the wireless wall stats, from the app, and from optional connection to smart devices like Alexa, or Google speakers. Kit3 is available from screwfix at a decent price.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-wiser-wireless-heating-hot-water-3-channel-thermostat-control-kit-white/4081v

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123898733#Comment_123898733

there’s a SEAI grantt for €750 for smart heating controls. You could replace all TRVs with smart ones.

mik_da_man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123898853#Comment_123898853

That grant is not what it sounds like!

You need to do a serious amount of change in order to qualify for it, a lot more than just making the system smart, just adding smart elements to an existing setup does not qualify, I spent quite a bit of time trying......and failing to get it

deezell

Grant is €700, and pre 2011 builds only, and you can expect any quote for 'smart controls' from the listed approved contractors to be €700 more than it should cost. I recall a grant aided quote from way back when Nest were just launched, it was the guts of €1300 to swap out a 2 channel receiver for a nest receiver, and plug the actual nest stat into its little charger, clip it to the wall, and connect to your wifi. The entire Nest kit was selling for €260. Grants are pants, utter waste of taxpayers money.

mik_da_man

See the guidelines attached, basically you need to do a lot of new plumbing work to qualify, if you already have a zoned system it won't qualify.

Technical-Bulletin-Heating-Controls.pdf

galaxy12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123898827#Comment_123898827

Thanks deezell , The Controller is Horstmann h37xl .
Two Room thremostats are Horstmann HRT3-wired

The hot Water is controller via Boost on Horstmann h37xl. I think the wired option works as well and may be cheaper for me and then have the new wired thermostats in the same location as the exising ones .

I can look at the Drayton wiser Kit as well if the Wise controller can go where I have the current Horstmann h37xl .

Unfortuantely cant get the SEAi grant as the previous owners claimed the grant 10 years back when they would have zoned the heating . it seems they kept the thermostat but I cant go back to SEAI and claim for heating controls as someone else also pointed out

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123907685#Comment_123907685

Forget the grants. Get the Wiser. Put the bew stats where the old ones are if you wish. Turn old ones up full to complete the wired circuit ( or remove). The wireless Wiser stats are linked to the wireless controller. It swaps out for the Horstman. It uses a different baseplate, so you'll need to remove Horstmann plate and installing the Wiser baseplate, and transfer the 5 wires, L, N, CH1, CH 2, HW. If you fancy DIY, I'll post the plate wirings to assist. The rest is all pairing, Internet connection etc, on your phone.

galaxy12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123907786#Comment_123907786

Thanks again. Let me get back in case I need the wiring although the plumber should do it .

I will definitely swap out the old stats and place the news ones there .

How frequently do the batteries need to be changed for the wiser stats ?

I can see that the kit 3 is what I need and it's around 200 euros on Screwfix .

The only thing being that it's gen 1 which means that there could be a gen 2 soon with more few more things added but this seems to be well within my budget..

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-wiser-wireless-heating-hot-water-3-channel-thermostat-control-kit-white/4081v

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910404#Comment_123910404

If you opt to remove the old stats, you must link the two stat cables to complete the circuit from the controller to the zone valves. Joint using insulated crimps or wago, tape up, push into the wall recess and plaster over. You could mount the wireless stats over these spot to cover them. I'm not familiar with Wiser battery life,Tado are good for a year, or more if they're wireless and not energising a wired mains relay. I think I posted something about gen 2 Wiser a short while back, but I forget the exact details, I think its just the controller (HubR) that's getting a facelift, read all about it here. https://schneider-electric.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/27765368616221-1st-Gen-to-2nd-Gen-migration

hold my beer

Anyone know of a way to automate a heatmiser system. Currently have the room controls set as to thermostat mode, to kick in when the room goes below the set temperature.

Im looking to also boost the system at about 3pm each day for an hour. I have a neo hub, which lets me set recipes on the phone that can trigger all the thermostats, but it looks like there's no way to automate it via the app or neohub.

Anyone had any success automating the triggering of a recipe?