Home heating automation

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165428#Comment_122165428

It was a commercial decision not to make both systems compatible, as we both know. That they deliberately choose this approach leads me to believe that they are targeting more subscription income, as you suggest. As for continuing to support and improve the V3+ System, I'd take that with a grain of salt. Whatever about maintaining the cloud service, maintaining two different product lines, for essentially the same market segment, is unlikely to make commercial sense. Hoeever, for now there's V3 inventory to be sold…
I learnt this lesson some years ago when Dimplex stopped manufacturing gas boilers and then pulled all support. I had a perfectly good boiler, only a few years old (< 5 yrs), with no spares available from the vendor. (I only found out because Bord Gais refused to renew my maintenance contract.) Thankfully this was before Brexit and I was able to source a set of spares from the UK. That is why I am suggesting that people stock up on V3 spares, now.

WildCardDoW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166172#Comment_122166172

On the flip side, these new devices are only targetting heat pumps so far…

Perhaps they wanted to separate the product lines instead of ending up with a confusing product line. Even in Europe gas boilers will be dominant long before many of us are looking to replace our systems so they will need to keep V3 running.

It is silly to not maintain a level of connectivevity for the rad valves though. That lack of "open" connectivity is why I didn't go with Tado personally (plus I got Hive stats + receiver for dirt cheap, €75 all in for two).

Think I'd go with Honeywell in any future upgrade.

I have Hive anyway and messed around with it's Zigbee integration in HA so like yourself I am largely future proofed if they take down the cloud aspect. Only issue is that their implementation of Zigbee for thermostats isn't standard (they have additional criteria needed in the message if the stat is in certain modes to get it to the mode you need / want) so lots of messing and sending custom Zigbee commands instead of just using the set commands.

I also haven't fully integrated the TRVs to call for heat in the Zigbee setup - simply that they close when heat exceeds a value.

But it works, so it will do ha.

deezell

I read some time ago that Honeywell Evohome had no further product development, and would remain as is for the foreseeable future, which admittedly is a comprehensive, but complex and expensive system, but perhaps that's a good thing. It's probably on the lower end of the third phase of product life cycle, so if it's not broken, don't fix it. It will no doubt decline slowly then rapidly as most systems do. I would be inclined to think the new Tado x is a European flavoured development. It could be quite a while before the missing V3 functionality, a wireless receiver, is introduced, and this no doubt is not a priority as they're looking to a future where their devices just talk wirelessly to whatever boiler or HP you have using the new protocols. If V3 goes dead in 5 years, I won't worry too much. Compared to the cost of HP conversion, or UHF upgrade, it's trivial.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165277#Comment_122165277

Yip. It's exactly one of those green foam covered ones. Any sense on whether it's better to use the metal probe or the temp/humidity sensor to strap on if doing it they way?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166704#Comment_122166704

The metal probe sensor would have the range to measure hot water which could be 65 degrees or higher. The air temperture and humidity sensor is for room and space measurment, not for vessel measument. Poke a hole into the greeen foam gently, use a biro tube or similar, nothing with a sharp point. Get right up to the cylinder metal, then slide in your probe.

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166502#Comment_122166502

Resideo Evohome is still very much under active development; new features are being added, new accessories are being introduced and new commercial partnerships are still being pursued. Yes, it is expensive compared to some products, even more so when bought from Irish suppliers. For me, it has the advantage of working standalone, other than for remote access and weather related functionality. 
Given the range of functionality that Evohome provides it can be complex to install and configure. However it is extremely easy to use on a daily basis, as Wifey would confirm. The complexity of installation depends on whether you are happy with the default settings. If you are it is no more difficult than systems such as Tado.  Bear in mind that with some other systems you don't have the configurable options to begin with. (For example, the default option with Evohome is for alkaline AA batteries to be used in the radiator controllers. A setting has to be changed if Lithium or NiMh batteries are to be used.)
I don't know where Evohome is in its lifecycle but, for sure, it will be replaced eventually. I have already bought a number of spare radiator valves. (The cheaper ones with no local temperature control, for about €40 each.) At some stage I'll see the wall controller on offer and I'll buy a spare one of these and a boiler relay. Then if Honeywell stop support I'll still be ok.

Look, different systems have different cost/benefits. It is up to everyone to do their own analysis as to what best suits their needs. Personally I dislike any system with an avoidable cloud dependency for basic functionality.  In my view it is an unnecessary hostage to fortune. The risks include a vendor going out of business, broadband being unavailable when heating/cooling needed urgently and subscriptions becoming ever more expensive. 

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165277#Comment_122165277

Technically, I could save up to 20 cent a day - if I could get 9kw of electricity into the tank, and it's 2.5c a kw cheaper? But I suspect the immersion element wouldn't get the full 9kw in as it might only be heating 2/3 of the tank, which is 120l so it wouldn't quite need 9kw to get that volume upto 60 degrees.

Still, as you say, there is an element of fun with some of this too. I enjoyed figuring out the S-plan wiring next to the cylinder to allow me to wire in the TH16!

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167026#Comment_122167026

Ah, the clue is in 'Resideo' The evohome is 14 years out, and its a long time ago that I read on some blog the worries of users that it had plateaued. Turns out Honeywell had 'spun it off' to Resideo in 2018 or thereabouts, and they've obviously decided to breath new life into it. The TRVs are a bit vintage looking though.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167175#Comment_122167175

Yes, 9kwh would raise 120l of water from 10° to a scalding 77.5°, if the 120l was still as warm as 30°, it probably cut off at after 4 or 5kwh input, 60 to 67.5°

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167225#Comment_122167225

In fairness Resideo have updated the room thermostats through the years, while maintaining full backwards compatibility. The new DT4R Thermostats are really nice. I'm not worried about the aesthetics of the TRV's, only their reliability. They have a five year guarantee and exercise the water valve at least every 2 weeks to prevent sticking. Hopefully both will last for many years!

Anyway, the evohome TRV's with a display are complete overkill. In practice we either use a room wall thermostat, or the wall controller, to adjust room temperatures. The HR91EE units are far cheaper and also have an open window contact. This can be used with a window sendor to turn off heating as an alternative to detecting sudden room temperature drops. I wish I had known about them before I bought the HR92's

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166337#Comment_122166337

Time was I would have enjoyed messing around like this. In any case the relative openness of Zigbee is a big plus and your approach should serve you well.

WildCardDoW

I've got it working well enough to turn the system on in a schedule and override that schedule (set temp higher than current set value) and then turn it off from HA and Google Home which is 99% of what I actually need. Could talk all day about it ha.

I can always move back to Hive's own integration, app etc. when I need to.

This was to prove when the internet is down or they scrap it I can still keep some control and it's been fine so I never bothered reverting back.

I wouldn't reccomend it for 99% of people haha.