Home heating automation

ninja 12

Tado

People who have installed Tado smart thermostats , are you happy enough with it ?

I plan to replace my APT timer with the following -

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-white/141kt

I assume it should be a straightforward enough to swap over .

All I need is temperature control and app control for when we're not at home .

I don't have any TRVs , but will probably install some at a later stage .

Thanks

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078584#Comment_122078584

You'll have a spare output relay on the receiver to control hot water separately if your current setup can manage it, and assuming you have a HW cylinder heated by the boiler. If its just the CH that's being controlled, then dropping the Tado receiver in place of the APT is all that's required. The switch marked Heating may be there to provide permanent power to the boiler.

ninja 12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078620#Comment_122078620

The switch beside the APT timer powers a circulation pump .

With the switch in the "off" position , the boiler only heats the water , with the switch in the "on" position , the boiler heats both water and the radiators .

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078678#Comment_122078678

Great. I suspected it was an old '1½' zone system, aka gravity system. The Tado can be set up in gravity mode to provide HW only timing, and CH timing with HW, but with two different timers. I'll post details which I've saved somewhere.

ninja 12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078803#Comment_122078803

Brilliant,

Thanks 😊

I'll probably order the Tado system in the next few days.

I had a heatmiser SmartStat in my previous house, and really miss the convenience of the app ( and the temperature control)

deezell

Here's the installation instructions for the extension kit, gravity mode configuration is in section 6. Theres no wiring diagram shown for this mode, but it's simple. In gravity mode the HW relay Normally open (NO) terminal is closed for Either a HW timed event or a CH timed event. The CH NO terminal closes just for CH events. You connect the HW NO terminal to fire the boiler for either timed schedule, and the CH NO terminal is wired to operate the circulation pump.

https://cdn.brandfolder.io/607DGEMS/as/tqh86npbjjhws5gwkxfncbfh/104172-DIGITAL-WRP01IB01-INSTALLER_MANUAL-TA-UK-00-V2.pdf

ninja 12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078899#Comment_122078899

Thanks for the installation instructions .

I picked up the Tado starter kit today .

I'll probably ask a friend to help with the wiring (he's an electrician) rather than risk making a mess of it .

The current setup is that the APT timer turns on the boiler (firebird , outside in a metal enclosure) and a circulation pump which heats the water only .

The switch on the right turns on or off a second circulation pump which heats the radiators .This second pump doesn't get any power unless the APT timer is set to ON .

Does it still sound like a straightforward swap over to the TADO to you ?

I replaced an APT timer with a Heatmiser unit before but it didn't have any zoning , it was just a straight swap .

Thanks for your help (sorry for the late reply )

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090925#Comment_122090925

Straightforward. HW terminal to fire the boiler and its pump, CH terminal to operate the CH pump. Gravity mode will direct both timers, HW and CH, to close the HW Normally Open Contact, so Hot water is heated for either, as it is now, but the CH Normally open terminal will only close for a CH timed/thermostat event with the Tado stat also calling for heat.

The CH timer is not so much an on off timer as a timed schedule of thermostat settings, say 21° from 8.00 to 10.00, 19° from 10.00 till 13.00, and so on. The schedule is infinitely variable, setting 'Off' is just a case of setting a lower temperature for a give time slot, such as nighttime.

The Electrician should have no issues, he may be familiar with gravity configuration of two zone controllers whose default configuration is two independent outputs, one for HW and one for CH, which is a simpler concept with two zone valves and independent HW and CH events.

You can power up the Tado Thermostat and receiver controller (aka the Extension Kit) before wiring up and bench observe the behaviour of the relays as you set CH on by turning up the stat, or setting the HW timer on. The relays will close as described once you configure it to gravity mode, described in section 6.

AvalonEnaid

So I am pretty sure I can adjust the rate at which my boiler burns. I'm using a 3rd party controller and it lets me adjust a whole bunch of things from the burner power to hysteresis to the boiler pump mode.

I have adjusted the burner max power down to 10% as a test and it definitely didn't heat the water up as quickly compared to 100%.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092202#Comment_122092202

I'd assume it achieves power control by duty cycle, modulating the firing on-off in the ratio of 1:9 to limit output and consumption to 10%. These periods could be in seconds, 5 and 45, 20 and 180, or longer. How often you should cycle the ignition and gas valve is up for debate, I'd expect more wear and tear in mechanical components, though they're very robust.

I'm not aware of a boiler that has a variable burn rate, this would be complex to achieve and maintain efficiency, but I'm sure that dual jet gas boilers exist, everything does somewhere.

Boilers with return temperature sensors to limit firing until return cools would be better able to achieve condensing. Slower circulation pump flow is helpful to an extent, allowing hot flow to linger longer in rad panels and HW cylinder coils, to achieve cooler return. Sometimes its like chasing shadows though, you only really save energy by being in a colder house.

ninja 12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122091363#Comment_122091363

Thank you very much for your help ,

my friend the electrician will be down in a couple of weeks , and we'll swap over from the APT timer then (peace of mind)

deezell

Tado announce new X range of smarties. New flavours include.
🔴 Uses new MATTER protocol, future smart things interoperability. Nest interoperability
🔵 New Heat pump bridge to smart connect and control HPs.

🟢 New TRVs with usb charging.

🟡 New dedicated temperature sensor.

🟠 Starter kit bridge and Heatpump bridge are router extenders.

You heard it here first (maybe)
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/15/24157114/tado-x-matter-thread-smart-heating-europe-price

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140567#Comment_122140567

Thanks.

Are many using Matter yet? I'm yet to invest in a dongle/bridge.

deezell

Many users or many Smart devices? Nest uses Matter, so I guess Nest stat owners now can install TadoX TRV's and link up

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140594#Comment_122140594

Users; I know that all or most vendors are bringing out devices to support Matter, I was just wondering what the general experience is with them and whether it's better than Zigbee or z-wave overall.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140567#Comment_122140567

I see the new system is incompatible with our existing Tado set-up......

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141041#Comment_122141041

In so far as the MATTER bridge can't see the existing Tado 6LoWPAN network, and vice versa, but at the network level above, the App(lication) level, theres scope for connectivity. TAD0 currently integrates with Home, IFTT, etc anyway, so both can be seen by these through their respective bridges If Tado creates an APP that can find both bridge connections (V3 and Matter), the only thing preventing integration would be strategy, not technology. It may not be in that interest to prolong the use of the older kit.