The big E3 discussion thread

Generic Dreadhead · 14-06-2017 5:54pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'd say the problem with Destiny 2 running on Xbox One X at 30FPS is as much to do with keeping a parity for players on the original Xbox One as it being anything to do with the PS4 Pro.

Oh hush you.
That doesn't fit any "console war" rhetoric.
You can't have X-Box One vs X-Box One X, it's not juicy enough!

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 6:01pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

If he's magnanimous about everyone supporting each other, why are XBox so obsessed with timed exclusives?

Xbox are not doing deals to get devs to cut parts of the game out from other platforms.

Its important as well to note that many games that are console launch exclusive usually launch on one console platform first anyway. Its far more manageable to do that. It can take a lot of resources to launch on to platforms at the same time. So if there's a deal to be done why not.

Rocket league for example on PS4 and now PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds on Xbox.

It should be pointed out that if Xbox wanted to do shady deals they could do it with petty cash from Phil Spencer's desk

SolvableKnave · 14-06-2017 6:02pm

Digital Foundry put up a video 3 weeks ago explaining why Destiny 2 is 30fps on BOTH Pro and OneX. Its nothing to do with purported XBoner conspiracies of Sony shenanigans. I'd link it but I'm on mobile at the moment.

Also, as Generic said you couldn't have XBone / XBoneS at 30 and XBoneX at 60. Disparity on the same console family would not be good for PvP.

wes · 14-06-2017 6:07pm

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Digital Foundry put up a video 3 weeks ago explaining why Destiny 2 is 30fps on BOTH Pro and OneX. Its nothing to do with purported XBoner conspiracies of Sony shenanigans. I'd link it but I'm on mobile at the moment.

Also, as Generic said you couldn't have XBone / XBoneS at 30 and XBoneX at 60. Disparity on the same console family would not be good for PvP.

Xbox One X cpu isn't all that different than the Xbox One cpu, much the same as PS4 Pro. The talk of a custom CPU, seems to be hollow for Xbox One X. Its just a modified jaguar, which is a mobile chip.

Honestly, they should thrown in a Ryzen in there and went for broke, and charged an extra 100 euro.

TitianGerm · 14-06-2017 6:11pm

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Also, as Generic said you couldn't have XBone / XBoneS at 30 and XBoneX at 60. Disparity on the same console family would not be good for PvP.

Microsoft have said it's up to the developer how they use the power of the X.

If a developer wants to have the FPS higher on the X they can. Microsoft hasn't said that One and One X need to be exactly the same. What they said is all games will be playable on both consoles.

Edit: I'm talking about single player not multiplayer.

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 6:14pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'd say the problem with Destiny 2 running on Xbox One X at 30FPS is as much to do with keeping a parity for players on the original Xbox One as it being anything to do with the PS4 Pro.

I'd say its a mixture of nearly all the things mentioned.

If you play Rainbow 6 Siege you can feel how odd it is to play most of the game at 60FPS and then run Terrorist Hunt mode at 30 FPS. It just feels out of place.

The Xbox One could only handle 30FPS in multiplayer so the X was always going to have to run the same there. It would be very off putting playing some of Destiny at 60fps and then 30FPS in multiplayer.

I remember being concerned when Destiny 1 was a 30fps shooter but I was surprised at how well it worked.

Generic Dreadhead · 14-06-2017 6:15pm

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Digital Foundry put up a video 3 weeks ago explaining why Destiny 2 is 30fps on BOTH Pro and OneX. Its nothing to do with purported XBoner conspiracies of Sony shenanigans. I'd link it but I'm on mobile at the moment.

Also, as Generic said you couldn't have XBone / XBoneS at 30 and XBoneX at 60. Disparity on the same console family would not be good for PvP.

Here's the video in question.
Though that was going of the perpetrated X-Box Scorpio Specs as they were at the time and the majority of the coverage was aimed at the PS4 Pro (since it was out and the Scorpio was not), not sure if they are the same. I doubt watching the video will change anyones minds though :P

Zero-Cool · 14-06-2017 6:29pm

Behind the scenes at e3 from one of the Prepared to Try DarkSouls IGN series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB4Q5EfIIjg

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 6:30pm

wes wrote: »

Xbox One X cpu isn't all that different than the Xbox One cpu, much the same as PS4 Pro. The talk of a custom CPU, seems to be hollow for Xbox One X. Its just a modified jaguar, which is a mobile chip.

Honestly, they should thrown in a Ryzen in there and went for broke, and charged an extra 100 euro.

The level of customisation and how it works with the GPU is what makes it powerful. The entire system is engineered for high performance.

During an interview, Studio Wildcard co-founder and co-creative director Jesse Rapczak said...

Ark dev wrote:

If you think about it, it's kind of equivalent to a GTX 1070 maybe and the Xbox One X actually has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. It's kind of like having a pretty high-end PC minus a lot of overhead due to the operating system on PC. So I would say it's equivalent to a 16GB 1070 PC, and that's a pretty good deal for $499".

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

jcd5971 · 14-06-2017 6:31pm

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

That horrible snake Phil spencer is spewing more of his vile rhetoric here /s

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2017-xbox-boss-reiterates-that-console-wars-are/1100-6450917/

Phil Spencer also talked to us about the possibility that Xbox One X is potentially being held back by PS4 Pro

I agree with everything hes says i just don't believe that he believes what it is he says he believes, I believe he believes something entirely different......

jcd5971 · 14-06-2017 6:38pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Xbox are not doing deals to get devs to cut parts of the game out from other platforms.

It should be pointed out that if Xbox wanted to do shady deals they could do it with petty cash from Phil Spencer's desk

Right then Ted

qrx · 14-06-2017 6:50pm

There have been numerous interviews with developers as part of xbox's coverage of E3. All talk highly of the X. Of course it's all a conspiracy. Its nothing but an overclocked xbox1 :-/

earthwormjack · 14-06-2017 6:58pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The level of customisation and how it works with the GPU is what makes it powerful. The entire system is engineered for high performance.

During an interview, Studio Wildcard co-founder and co-creative director Jesse Rapczak said...

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

The one x will not be close to a gtx 1070 and studio wildcard are the last bunch of devs I'd take advice like this from.

It is a good machine for €500 though and the smallest Xbox yet is remarkable given the power of it.

qrx · 14-06-2017 7:03pm

earthwormjack wrote: »

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The level of customisation and how it works with the GPU is what makes it powerful. The entire system is engineered for high performance.

During an interview, Studio Wildcard co-founder and co-creative director Jesse Rapczak said...

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

The one x will not be close to a gtx 1070 and studio wildcard are the last bunch of devs I'd take advice like this from.

It is a good machine for €500 though and the smallest Xbox yet is remarkable given the power of it.

There not the only devs singing its praise. Not just its power but also the ease of developing on both pc and xbox due to the tools MS have developed.

jcd5971 · 14-06-2017 7:08pm

qrx wrote: »

There not the only devs singing its praise. Not just its power but also the ease of developing on both pc and xbox due to the tools MS have developed.

ah jaysus lads quote a few proper developers then, I googled them there as that's an impressive statement if true, only to find studio wildcard is that 400 year in early access/beta ****e dinosaur ark game that looks like it was made with an amstrad 64 using a potato as a gpu.

earthwormjack · 14-06-2017 7:09pm

qrx wrote: »

There not the only devs singing its praise. Not just its power but also the ease of developing on both pc and xbox due to the tools MS have developed.

I do remember reading that a while back too about how they were massively improving their dev tools. Good to hear it actually turned out that way.

Still wouldn't believe wildcard though. Ark barely holds 1080p60 on monster PCs and from remembering the digital foundry videos on the consoles it was a horror show too.

EoinHef · 14-06-2017 7:10pm

Could probably find equally as many devs that dont like the idea of UWP as you could ones that do.

qrx · 14-06-2017 7:33pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

qrx wrote: »

There not the only devs singing its praise. Not just its power but also the ease of developing on both pc and xbox due to the tools MS have developed.

ah jaysus lads quote a few proper developers then, I googled them there as that's an impressive statement if true, only to find studio wildcard is that 400 year in early access/beta ****e dinosaur ark game that looks like it was made with an amstrad 64 using a potato as a gpu.

You'll have to watch through the xbox daily videos and there are some other non xbox specific e3 vids.

wes · 14-06-2017 7:47pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The level of customisation and how it works with the GPU is what makes it powerful. The entire system is engineered for high performance.

During an interview, Studio Wildcard co-founder and co-creative director Jesse Rapczak said...

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58011/ark-dev-xbox-one-pc-gtx-1070-16gb-ram/index.html

Yeah, I know the GPU is very powerful, the problem is that according to the Destiny devs, 60 FPS on Destiny requires a meaty CPU, which neither the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X has. There based on the mobile Jaguar CPU, which is pretty week, even with the improvements MS made. They would have needed a Ryzen to hit 60 FPS on Destiny.

Don't get me wrong Xbox One X is certainly more powerful than the PS4 Pro, in GPU terms, but when it comes to the CPU, there both not far off each other at all, and there not even a whole lot better than the PS4 and the Xbox One.

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 7:48pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

ah jaysus lads quote a few proper developers then, I googled them there as that's an impressive statement if true, only to find studio wildcard is that 400 year in early access/beta ****e dinosaur ark game that looks like it was made with an amstrad 64 using a potato as a gpu.

Ark leaves early access when it launches on August 8th and it has been 2 years in early access.

The game is in development so of course its not optimised to launch quality yet.

Penn · 14-06-2017 7:52pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Xbox are not doing deals to get devs to cut parts of the game out from other platforms.

Again, there's a difference between cutting part of the game from other platforms, and adding content to the game for your platform. You're acting like the content was supposed to be in the game for both platforms, and then Sony paid the devs to take parts out of the Xbox version.

Do you really think Sony do that and the devs agree to that?

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 7:53pm

wes wrote: »

Yeah, I know the GPU is very powerful, the problem is that according to the Destiny devs, 60 FPS on Destiny requires a meaty CPU, which neither the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X has. There based on the mobile Jaguar CPU, which is pretty week, even with the improvements MS made. They would have needed a Ryzen to his 60 FPS on Destiny.

Don't get me wrong Xbox One X is certainly more powerful than the PS4 Pro, in GPU terms, but when it comes to the CPU, there both not far off each other at all, and there not even a whole lot better than the PS4 and the Xbox One.

Destiny devs came out and said it couldn't run on the PS4 Pro CPU at 60 FPS. They didn't say it can't run on the Xbox One X CPU.

See the video below at 0.45 seconds when they stated that.
https://youtu.be/DXUdLVZ4V2s?t=45s

They simply confirmed that Destiny 2 will be 30 FPS on the XB1X.

We will be able to find out eventually because people will mirror the XB1X performance on PC and test Destiny 2 (PC) to see if the XB1X can handle it or if it can't. I am willing to bet that will be a Digital Foundry video.

wes · 14-06-2017 8:07pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Destiny devs came out and said it couldn't run on the PS4 Pro CPU at 60 FPS. They didn't say it can't run on the Xbox One X CPU.

See the video below at 0.45 seconds when they stated that.
https://youtu.be/DXUdLVZ4V2s?t=45s

They simply confirmed that Destiny 2 will be 30 FPS on the XB1X.

We will be able to find out eventually because people will mirror the XB1X performance on PC and test Destiny 2 (PC) to see if the XB1X can handle it or if it can't. I am willing to bet that will be a Digital Foundry video.

Yeah, and they say the issue is on the CPU side very clearly. The Xbox One X CPU is still Jaguar based:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

On the CPU side, there's been much conjecture that Scorpio would feature AMD's new Ryzen technology - something we thought unlikely, owing to manufacturing timelines, not to mention Microsoft telling us last year that the new console would feature eight CPU cores. All signs point to the upclocked Jaguar cores we find in Xbox One, and Scorpio's CPU set-up is indeed an evolution of that tech, but subject to extensive customisation and the offloading of key tasks to dedicated hardware.

Look at the table comparing the CPUs as well, and difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X isn't huge. So unless Digital Foundry is very wrong, we are looking at a customized Jaguar based CPU, and that is still at the end of the day a mobile CPU, and not very powerful, and we see the results in Destroy and elsewhere.

If Xbox One X could hit 60 FPS in games that run 30 FPS elsewhere, then I would have expected them to either show or tell us one of there exclusives like Gears 4 single player campaign could do it.

petes · 14-06-2017 8:11pm

qrx wrote: »

You'll have to watch through the xbox daily videos and there are some other non xbox specific e3 vids.

So you aren't going to provide a quote from other devs?

Have a ps4 and recently got a Switch. Buying an Xbox didn't enter the equation at all.

Unless I see some really decent Xbox one x games it too won't appeal especially at the price.

You can talk hardware specs all day long but don't have the games you don't succeed!

Mitch Connor · 14-06-2017 8:20pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Destiny devs came out and said it couldn't run on the PS4 Pro CPU at 60 FPS. They didn't say it can't run on the Xbox One X CPU.

See the video below at 0.45 seconds when they stated that.
https://youtu.be/DXUdLVZ4V2s?t=45s

They simply confirmed that Destiny 2 will be 30 FPS on the XB1X.

We will be able to find out eventually because people will mirror the XB1X performance on PC and test Destiny 2 (PC) to see if the XB1X can handle it or if it can't. I am willing to bet that will be a Digital Foundry video.

Indeed they said that about the PS4Pro - and indeed the didn't say it about the Scorpio - but to put some actual context on that.... they weren't talking about the Scorpio version at all at that point, because it had not been officially announced by the time they were doing the reveal and the follow up interviews. So yeah, they said nothing about the scorpio because they said nothing at all about the scorpio then.

Also, while MS have said Devs are free to use the power in whatever way they want, and improve their scorpio games however they want, they also said they thought it was very unlikely that devs would develop games multiplayer with variable frame rates across the family - so MS said themselves that they thought it unlikely a multi-player game (Desiny) would be 60fps on Scorpio and 30 on Xbox One. Now, they could maybe have done 60fps in PvE and locked PvP to 30 on both versions of the console, but Bungie have made a big song and dance over how they want the game to behave and react the same in all parts of the game - so Bungie developing a variable framerate in different sections of the game was highly unlikely anyway.

On the overall topic, no one likes exclusive content - whether that is console based or retailer based etc - it stinks. But Spencer/MS are not really in any position to be throwing stones. When they were on top, in the previous generation, didn't they have exclusive content deals? Didn't GTA4 or 5 have exclusive content? Didn't one of the CoD games have map exclusives? Doesn't the division have timed exlusives (and technically the destiny stuff is timed)

qrx · 14-06-2017 8:25pm

petes wrote: »

qrx wrote: »

You'll have to watch through the xbox daily videos and there are some other non xbox specific e3 vids.

So you aren't going to provide a quote from other devs?

Have a ps4 and recently got a Switch. Buying an Xbox didn't enter the equation at all.

Unless I see some really decent Xbox one x games it too won't appeal especially at the price.

You can talk hardware specs all day long but don't have the games you don't succeed!

No im not going to go throigh the videos and quote them for you. Doesnt make me a liar, videos are there for people to see.

I'm not 100% convinced on the x or to get a ps4 yet. Very much like the games coming to xbox but not convinced it warrants a new console. The great thing is the new dev tools and the power of the 1x are bringing games to the whole xbox range and vice versa to the pc. Dare I say It, they're also bringing games to ps4. But if I do get a ps4 it'll be the slim. Pro has no appeal. Fwiw, switch is coming to my house this Xmas too

johnny_ultimate · 14-06-2017 8:27pm

The real winners of E3 are those of us who think Destiny is just a big old pile of grindy nonsense.

*bans self for flame-baiting*

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-06-2017 8:29pm

wes wrote: »

Yeah, and they say the issue is on the CPU side very clearly. The Xbox One X CPU is still Jaguar based:

Look at the table comparing the CPUs as well, and difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X isn't huge. So unless Digital Foundry is very wrong, we are looking at a customized Jaguar based CPU, and that is still at the end of the day a mobile CPU, and not very powerful, and we see the results in Destroy and elsewhere.

If Xbox One X could hit 60 FPS in games that run 30 FPS elsewhere, then I would have expected them to either show or tell us one of there exclusives like Gears 4 single player campaign could do it.

Again, its a highly customised CPU that works in unison with other components such as the graphics card to produce greater results that what can be seen with an off the shelf CPU with a similar spec.

Developers can choose how they use the power of the One X. They can keep a game at a stable 30 FPS and push for incredible visuals or they can make some sacrifices to up the frame rate to 60 if the game is quite demanding.

Throughout the life cycle of One X we will see games at 30 and 60 fps. 4K native and upscaled 4K. Its going be a developer decision for each game that releases.

I relation to Destiny and what we have seen I think it could run Destiny 2 at 4K 60FPS. Although we still haven't seen much of the game. It could get insane in certain parts. We will know once the game is on PC. People will test it to see if an Xbox One X version at 60 is possible.

What we don't want to see is shady deals holding back the Xbox One X version of any multiplatform game. Once Call of Duty, Destiny and Battlefront launch we will know more about how these marketing deals impacting the XB1X versions of the games.

14-06-2017 8:31pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The real winners of E3 are those of us who think Destiny is just a big old pile of grindy nonsense.

*bans self for flame-baiting*

I'll get the door for you :pac:

Penn · 14-06-2017 8:32pm

Penn wrote: »

Again, there's a difference between cutting part of the game from other platforms, and adding content to the game for your platform. You're acting like the content was supposed to be in the game for both platforms, and then Sony paid the devs to take parts out of the Xbox version.

Do you really think Sony do that and the devs agree to that?

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

What we don't want to see is shady deals holding back the Xbox One X version of any multiplatform game. Once Call of Duty, Destiny and Battlefront launch we will know more about how these marketing deals impacting the XB1X versions of the games.

So can we take that as a yes then? You do believe Sony are paying devs to cut content that was originally meant to be in the game from the Xbox versions and the devs are agreeing to do that?

The big E3 discussion thread

Comments