BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122720212#Comment_122720212

While there seem to be two versions floating around regarding the first GTs (that up to a certain number they're either DB- or NTA-owned, you'll hear both versions), everything for DB from a certain GT number onwards is NTA-owned and DB-operated (good oul' Gothenburg model). Not too sure on the WS ownership though.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721024#Comment_122721024

Yes, I was thinking the same about the GT's when I wrote my comment, but I couldn't remember the exact details.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122720387#Comment_122720387

Yes, they don't need to be charged, they can run as pure hybrids, they can however be plugged in to get the best mileage, but I'd guess it is more trouble then it is worth.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719417#Comment_122719417

They can have our the EW'S from Summerhill and we can have there GT'S and SG'S, ask any driver or maintenance there and they will tell the same

john boye

Most of the 150 drivers who moved to Summerhill with the route seem to love them in fairness

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721362#Comment_122721362

What sort of issues are the staff having with them?

halfpastneverr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721362#Comment_122721362

Really? the EW's are that unreliable/crap to drive?

I've no issues at all with the SG or GT's to be fair. Just the EV's are crap for anyone tall like meself cos the seats are so cramped. Plus, the single door makes loading noticeably slow vs the 2 door buses.

stephenjmcd

Wicklow councillors doing what we've seen before other phases, claiming confusion and routes to be axed causing huge disruption to commuters working week.

Clearly they haven't bothered to look at the route maps and the concept of routes feeding spines

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/ATnRkiVWkQbeMxpu/

dublinman1990

The 74, G1 & G2 are having diversions this weekend as Winetavern St will be closed due to roadworks.

The diversions for these routes will be in place from 8am to 5pm on Saturday & Sunday.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/news/diversions-on-route-74,-g1-and-g1

What are these roadworks on Winetavern St? Do they relate to the upcoming rollout of the "O" or something?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723877#Comment_122723877

There is confusion in Wicklow.

Bus drivers, bus companies all telling passengers one thing

The NTA telling wicklow councillors something different

Nobody telling the public in an informative way what is actually happening.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122721024#Comment_122721024

It doesn't seem to really make a difference if buses are NTA or DB owned sure look at the AXs GAI have for example.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723881#Comment_122723881

Notably it's only affecting the direction out of town, so the works must be limited to the contra-flow bus lane side of the road.

I doubt it's anything related to the O, since it's the same route as the S2 at that point and that goes via Bridge St.

hfjm20

Does anyone have any updates on phase 6a, will it include the E1 and E2 and is it still planned for the 24th?

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723915#Comment_122723915

I live in Bray and I've looked at the plans and known about bus connects for a while. I don't see all that much to be confused about.

There's alot of incorrect information floating around the likes of Facebook through local groups.

The actual bus connects routing etc is all very clear, all that remains is a confirmed start date from the NTA.

We've had this at every other stage as well, certain councilors etc spreading completely incorrect information claiming downgrades of service and longer journey times when they just haven't grasped the concept of what's coming. Yes some areas may lose a direct service but a high frequency local or orbital feeding a high frequency spine is better for everyone

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723736#Comment_122723736

Sorry for the delay,

Some of the issues are, the monitors (mirrors) are not good at night time can barely see cyclists, another issue with the monitors is when the sun hits it you can see behind you. Sometimes the the camera for the monitors can shift when u go over a bump and can't see the side of the bus so u have to wait for maintenance, the heating in the cab goes straight on to full power witch make the eyes water, constantly power surging. Often times you be at a bus stop and the power would knock off and Sometimes you could be driving and your battery is 99% and then all of a sudden it can be 60%. There is more things.. Hopefully the second batch is better

Nice to drive other than that

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698915#Comment_122698915

This is indeed testing for the O.

I’ve seen the EA buses out on the road at around the times that were on that timetable.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724263#Comment_122724263

Exactly.

There are over 5 weeks to go before the 24th of November.

I’d expect them to go live with the pre-launch publicity about 4 weeks ahead of that date.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724263#Comment_122724263

I can't read the article. Have you read it? What is claimed about downgrades of services and longer journey times?

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122723779#Comment_122723779

The EW’S are unreliable keep breaking down due to all sorts, but they are nice to drive when you get one that fully works, hopefully the new batch will be better

loyatemu

most of the complaints I've seen are around the loss of the 84, which despite it's low frequency, did provide a link to the Luas and areas in DLR where people work and go to school. To get from Greystones to Deansgrange or (say) Newpark School will be 2 changes vs a direct bus now.

Whilst I don't really see how anyone could say they didn't know this was coming (the consultations were publicised on the same FB groups they're now complaining on); plenty of people who did respond to the consultation asked for a link to the Luas and it wasn't provided.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724477#Comment_122724477

84 mentioned, a parent who's children go to school in Blackrock, who hasn't seemed to look very far into the plan to see the alternatives,

"Aisling told the Bray People that the 84 route her children use was “packed out” every morning such is the demand for it. She said the options going forward are for her children to get a bus from Bray to Shankill, then use the 7B to the school in Blackrock. One of her sons does that at times to be with his friends.

"But the 7B doesn't go regularly enough. He likes to get the bus with his friends, but none of his friends know what's going on,” she said.

“We need to work, we need to sit down, we have to have a look at the map and see where the other buses are going. The choices are they can get the Dart to Dun Laoghaire and get the S8 up, which is going to cost them more money. Or they can get whatever bus is going to be the equivalent of the 145 or the 155."

Now the line of it'll cost more money isn't accurate at all, the TFI 90 fare is the same now as it'll be after the change. Yes there'll be a change required between services.

Also reference to social media complaints about no direct bus to St Vincent's. This of course fails to mention the connects between spines and other routes to get to Vincent's.

Councilors also querying what Anne Graham told them on the dates, I believe this was discussed a little back on the thread and the NTA have commented,

Cllr Behan said there was confusion around the 145, although he didn't give much detail other than confusion. It's pretty straight forward if he looks at the map.

The NTA have released a statement,

“The E1 will be doing most of what the 145 currently does, although the precise routing between the centre of Bray and the terminus at Ballywaltrim will be a change. The new L12 will also be useful to people in that area.

“In the coming weeks we will be publishing detailed information on all the changes on our website and distributing booklets to all households along the route. This will include information on the precise routes and frequencies of the new services. We will also be briefing local public representatives,” he added.

Mr O’Gara has referred bus users to the network map that includes the alignments of the E1, L12 and all the other new routes that are to be brought in next month and can be found on: busconnects.ie"

Overall while yes some areas lose the direct connection they have to the area they want to go to, this isn't new and we've seen it in all the previous phases. It simply comes down to people not looking into the changes and the alternatives enough

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724523#Comment_122724523

Why does there need to be a direct bus from Greystones to Blackrock there was never one prior to 2012 when the 84 was changed to go to Blackrock after they got rid of the 45.

The other thing about the 84 is that it's already nearly like two routes as is. Can often be waiting 10-15 mins at Bray Station for a driver change. At least that's my memory of it.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724263#Comment_122724263

This post makes no sense

You understand the plan and are not confused but then you also acknowledge that there is a lot of confusion.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724523#Comment_122724523

Why not get the train to Seapoint and then the S8?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724620#Comment_122724620

Same here, in fact I'm even more confused why people in Bray were getting the 84 instead of the DART?

This whole mantra of "we need a direct bus from X to Y with no changes" is why our network is already such a mess, and why it will remain such a mess after it had to be tweaked to satisfy complaints like this.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725261#Comment_122725261

possibly because the 84 is a 5 minute walk from their house, and the Dart is a half hour walk?

I know there are alternatives, I also understand peoples resistance to change and their wariness of having to change during their journey, given the general unreliability of, well, all modes of transport in Dublin (except maybe the Luas). If you have a 2 change journey then you're massively increasing the risk of something not running and being badly delayed.

The benefit of this phase of BC for north Wicklow commuters is not huge. As far as I can tell, there's no great increase in services for anywhere except Kilcoole. The circular services in Bray and Greystones are new, though in the case of Greystones they'll be filling in gaps left by the cancellation of the 84.

When the original plan was launched, it talked of frequent local services meeting a 20-minute frequency Dart service in Greystones. 6 years later, the plan for that improved Dart service hasn't even been published, the actual service is probably 10 years away, and the buses won't be meeting the Dart anyway (no change there).

cgcsb

I wonder will the E phase include the other radials. 23 and 24 look like some of the most useful new routes. Any part of the bus connects programme that involves a liffey crossing that isn't OCS is very exciting.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725054#Comment_122725054

That's not what the post says at all.

The NTA bus connects plans are very clear as to what routes go where.

Any confusion within the public is entirely of their own doing through the likes of facebook groups and certain local councilors. It's nothing new for bus connects, it's happened at every other phase too but it's people simply not reading the information that's easily available.

As I said all we're waiting for is the confirmed date which is currently 24th November and as the NTA have said there'll be leaflet drops in the areas in the lead up. Not sure what more they can possibly do.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725578#Comment_122725578

Yes you understand them clearly. That doesn't mean everyone else does.

You seem to assume that because you are not confused that everyone else shouldn't be confused but then you list reasons why people are confused. So what you are saying doesn't make sense.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725612#Comment_122725612

The NTA will be issuing publicity about the changes well ahead (approx 4 weeks based on previous phases) of the implementation date, which I fully expect will be November 24th.

That is surely plenty of time to sit down and study them?

People are putting the cart before the horse here.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725489#Comment_122725489

The resistance to change that some people exhibit is almost… militant; or like the proposed changes are a personal insult on that person and their family or something.

I mean, I experienced it back in Dunboyne when I feel like I was the only person active in the local group who was in favour of the change to scrap the all-day 70 in favour of the drastically more frequent L64 (15mins versus current 60mins for each of 70/270) to interchange with the B-spine. I was practically shunned and exiled by everyone else who were adamant about keeping their city centre connection all day. I've since moved so I don't really care about the result anymore, but it seems like the shuttle will go ahead, supplemented by a couple of CC-bound P64's at the peaks.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725512#Comment_122725512

No it won’t.

The 23 & 24 will be part of the F Spine changes next year.

Once again this next phase involves:

Spines: E1 and E2

Radial route: 19

Local routes: L1, L2, L3, L12, L14, L15, L26, L27

Express routes: X1 and X2

Routes cancelled:

46a, 46e, 63, 63a, 84, 84a, 84x, 145, 155, 184, 185

Routes amended:

4 - To operate Heuston Station - Monkstown Avenue

11 - To operate Infirmary Road - Sandyford Business District (with extra short workings from Infirmary Road - Upper Leeson St as route 11b)

13 - To operate Mountjoy Square - Grange Castle