BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725913#Comment_122725913

The confusion partly arises here because of the operators drivers and administrators telling people ahead of the NTA public information campaign.

I understand what's happening (following the NTA clarifying their miscommunication).

People posting here have an interest in and knowledge of the overall bus connects concept. A lot of the general public don't have quite the same interest or depth of knowledge/understanding.

It is entirely understandable why passengers and the General public would be confused. The concept that the general public are confused isnt even controversial so not sure why it's in such dispute.

trellheim

The NTA in fairness cannot communicate. They have not updated most of their maps on their own website for the recent minor changes because they cannot be bothered. This forum remains by far the most informed place to get information.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122725918#Comment_122725918

resistance to change is not unexpected. In your case the change may have had some benefits, but for North Wicklow the benefits of BC are marginal at best, and I'm not surprised people being directly discommoded by the withdrawal of the 84 are complaining.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726198#Comment_122726198

L1 and L2 at 30 minute frequency each and combined 15 minute frequency between Bray and Greystones is a major improvement over the 84 (hourly) and 184 (30 mins).

Now whether Go-Ahead deliver on those frequencies is another question they don't exactly have a great track record.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726198#Comment_122726198

People never like change - you only have to look at the initial “outrage” at the 17, 18, 75 and 175 being replaced by the S2, S4, S6, S8 and 74 last year, but now most people seem to have adjusted to the new routes and to the fact that they may now have to change en route.

It takes time for people to adjust.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726279#Comment_122726279

yeah, that's the question. Overall number of buses Greystones-Bray isn't increasing by much but if they do manage to keep the intervals regular it will be an improvement as today the 84 and 184 often run very close to each other. I do think they're going to find it tricky as there will be 3 different starting points (Kilcoole, Newtown and Newcastle) all having to align at Greystones and as you point out GAI aren't doing a great job with the 184 as it is.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726050#Comment_122726050

I don’t disagree with you at all on any of this.

Unfortunately Anne Graham managed to cause a lot of it at the council meeting recently by not being as clear as she ought to have been.

renalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724413#Comment_122724413

Word in Phibsboro is that the guys are out timing the O at the moment, with route training to start sometime in November, and finally plan to go into service in January. Of course we shall see as time goes by, it's not certain until it actually does happen :-)

The other thing is according to the NTA a full lap should be in and around the 3 hour mark, yet it's taking the guys upwards of 3hr 40 at times.

dublinman1990

If anyone wants to read the article about BusConnects from the Bray People. It's here on the website.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/bray-news/confusion-reigns-for-north-wicklow-commuters-just-weeks-away-from-roll-out-of-new-bus-services/a801734552.html

The E1 & E2 have obvious benefits with both of them being 24 hour routes. If people are out working at night time throughout the week or heading out for a night out from the city centre at the weekends. It will allow people to save a few quid on paying for a taxi to get them to their homes at night.

If I was living along the 84 to get from Newcastle to Newpark school in the morning; I could take the X2 from Newcastle to get to one of two bus stops if they stopped at the same bus stops on the N11 as the 84x.

One option here would be to take the X2 to White's Cross & then walk over to Leopardstown Road to get the S8 to the school.

Another option is to get the X2 to Stillorgan. And then get the L25 near the community centre at Patrician Villas to go for three stops down to get off the bus to Annaville Terrace and then make a short 2 minute walk to the school.

I think that would be a more ideal option to get to school because if you take other options at this point; it will take about 3 buses or 2 buses and 1 Dart to do a similar journey between those two destinations.

You would only have that issue of taking three buses home on Wednesdays because the secondary schools normally have a half day on that day of the week or or other days where schools would have parent teacher meetings or staff meetings etc throughout the year. Other normal days of the week may make that option of getting home from school a little bit easier as the secondary schools on the other days of the week normally finish between 3pm and 4pm in the afternoon.

Also if this move of putting these new bus services out while the traffic levels around Bray were eventually reduced with more people switching from their cars over to using PT. It would be a good move. However how far that move would make a meaningful change for the people of Bray is anyone's guess at this point.

EDIT: I'm sorry. I didn't realise that the article linked that I linked above was paywalled. I was going to read it but the option to subscribe is listed on it.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726359#Comment_122726359

Aligning departures from three different starting points isn't difficult, it just requires the scheduler to think from the arriving terminus back to the departing terminus and not the other way around. In fact, all of the Spines introduced so far have had inbound departures aligned from the city centre out (Hs from Raheny, Cs from Lucan, Gs from Ballyfermot), however the subsequent running time adjustments may or may not have ruined the effect in a lot of cases as terminus departures weren't adjusted – scheduling 101 failed by Dublin Bus as usual.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726359#Comment_122726359

That shouldn’t be as difficult as you think - the schedulers have all of the historic information as to how long buses take to get from one point to another from the AVLC system.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726696#Comment_122726696

This must be a mistake. 3 whole hours to complete the route???

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122727125#Comment_122727125

A full lap means going from James Street to Parkgate Street (anti-clockwise) and then turning around and going back to James Street again (clockwise).

thomasj

I can only imagine how long it will take on Paddy's day

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122726279#Comment_122726279

It's a massive improvement on paper, but whether it works in practice depends on (a) whether they can maintain a full complement of staff, and (b) the number of buses the NTA allocates to the services at busy times. If it's not enough, they'll have to do what they've been doing for the last six years - squeeze as much running as they can from impossible-to-achieve timetables. Traffic is a huge problem in the area, and there are no bus lanes to avoid it, so it can only be dealt with via good scheduling. An ideal situation would be that they start out with far too much running time and then gradually use the data they receive to tighten it up and achieve a decent Mon-Fri compromise.

Even if things are slightly tight, that 15-min frequency can easily turn into 30 minute gaps, followed by an L1 and L2 running in convoy between Greystones and Bray.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122727659#Comment_122727659

They could do what Aircoach have done and give 70 minute journey time from Charlesland to Bray

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122727677#Comment_122727677

There are certain times of day where that wouldn't be a million miles away from being accurate. The whole area is one big car park between 7:30 and 9am.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122724523#Comment_122724523

The Finnegans 143 sort of provides an occasional link to the LUAS, although as it (and their 144) exists in a weird twilight world where it is within the Dublin area, is funded by TFI but is not part of the fare structure I can see why it is ignored.

Ridiculous carry on leaving this as a standalone service, the "arrangement" for those needing accessible transport is also interesting.

https://www.finnegan-bray.ie/scheduled-services/timetable

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122728422#Comment_122728422

Finnegans route is a joke, a handful of services a day on clapped out old bangers, not properly integrated into the Leap fares (though you can pay with Leap apparently), nothing on weekends or BHs. They seem to have some perpetual license, there's no way the NTA would design such a poor service today.

LXFlyer

The 143/144 are no longer commercial routes but are TFI funded services now (like the 139 and 197).

The L14 will effectively replace the 144 in Bray - I can’t see the NTA maintaining it as a contracted service.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122728581#Comment_122728581

139 and 197 being two more rogue TFI routes that run within the areas of but exist outside both the Dublin and Greater Dublin fare structures for no good reason.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122728775#Comment_122728775

And the 197 was even included on the bus connects map! Yet the 139 was not...

LXFlyer

That will change as the new greater Dublin fare structure is implemented I suspect.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122728422#Comment_122728422

I'd argue that there is no real need for a link from Bray to the Luas after bus connects. All the main destinations on the Luas Green line can be reached fairly easily with one change of bus from the E1. Sandyford (E1+S8), Dundrum (E1+L25), Milltown (E1+S4) and Ranelagh (E1+S2)

hfjm20

Forgive me for my inexperience in this topic as I have only recently joined the forum but can someone explain to me the reasons for the delays in the bus connects rollout? I know it is a complex process to change a full bus network but surely it should not be taking as long as it has. Is each phase subject to increased recruitment of drivers, new buses being delivered or something else? Baffles me as to why there have been so many delays

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122731625#Comment_122731625

More buses, more drivers, software updates, bus stops to be installed, existing stops to be updated, etc. etc.

Would it have been better to rip off the plaster and change everything in one swoop a year or two ago? Probably. But from all the various reports over the years of local people not understanding and getting mad at any tiny change in their current network, that probably would have resulted in utter pandemonium.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122731625#Comment_122731625

The simple explanation is difficulties with resourcing it.

Each phase involves recruiting additional drivers and putting more buses into service, and requires additional funding. It’s not just a case of reallocation, each phase is also expansion.

Recruitment and retention of the additional drivers has been the single biggest problem - there is an industrywide shortage of drivers (along with mechanics) and that has meant everything gets pushed back until the bus companies can assure the NTA that they can resource the next phase.

trellheim

The 39a, 15 and airport 24 hour services should be strengthened at night they are jammed nearly all the time - this should be done before further spine launch, in my view. These are current pressures that the E spines will not alleviate.

trellheim

I also received this yesterday :

"

Dear Community Forum Member,

Please note, thisis a no-reply email address. Please feel free to email queries to cbc@busconnects.ie  

We are emailing you to provide a status update in relation to theBusConnects Dublin Core Bus Corridors specifically the Lucan to City CentreCore Bus Corridor Scheme.

The NTA applied to An Bord Pleanála in October of 2022 for approval of theScheme under Section 51(2) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended), along with asubmission for confirmation of the associated Compulsory Purchase Order.

An Bord Pleanála has now issued its decisions, being to approve the Scheme,subject to conditions, and to confirm the Compulsory Purchase Order(CPO).  A copy of the Scheme approval is available hereand a copy of the CPO confirmation is available here.

Following An Bord Pleanála’s determinations, various public notices andnotifications are required to be issued and this will be published/issued atthe appropriate time. 

Construction Stage:

Subject to completion of various processes, the NTA will now develop theconstruction sequencing to include the Lucan to City Centre Core Bus CorridorScheme taking account of approvals received, along with documentation to allowprocurement to commence for the construction stage of the Scheme.

It is expected that all twelve corridors will be completed in 2030 with thefirst construction contracts to be awarded early in 2025 and on-siteconstruction commencing in the second half of next year also. Theconstruction of the corridors will be delivered on a phased basis in order toreduce the traffic impacts that could arise should all twelve be constructedconcurrently. In relation to the Lucan to City Centre Core Bus Corridor, it islikely that the Scheme will be implemented in the first half of the overallCore Bus Corridor construction programme.

In the coming months, detailed communication arrangements for theconstruction phase will be developed to ensure that residents, communitygroups, businesses and public representatives are kept fully informed and haveaccess to relevant liaison personnel during the delivery of the Scheme.

Yours sincerely,

BusConnects Team

"

cgcsb

Good news. So the South West corridors and Bray are left. Tbh I'd be happier if Bray and Blackrock were scrapped entirely because the design is such a dogs dinner and those corridors aren't the worst at the moment anyway, come back with a proper design that meets actual standards later.