BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

hfjm20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122732777#Comment_122732777

What's wrong with them?

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122733071#Comment_122733071

Ballsbridge, donnybrook and their city centre ends have had their footpaths hacked into a space that can't accommodate a wheelchair user or 2 people abrest so that cars can have more turning lanes. Also the bus lanes at these locations are just turning lanes for cars.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122733071#Comment_122733071

One example is the truncating of the the 7/A at Dun Laoghaire, this is an awful decision that was objected to by many, this route is constantly busy through DL.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734278#Comment_122734278

That's why the network is being expanded with the increase in Local route services, to encourage interchange and allow for more frequent service where it matters. As opposed to having major trunk routes perform windy routes in the outskirts to service everyone directly.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734278#Comment_122734278

That’s nothing to do with the core bus corridors though.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122732210#Comment_122732210

That was approved at the beginning of September by ABP, and reported here then.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734293#Comment_122734293

Where it matters is where the demand is, forcing a large number to put up with having to change from a mid frequency route to a mid or low frequency route for ideological reasons is of benefit only to consultants and crayonistas who like neat looking maps.

It isn't windy to begin with, it takes the R118 directly from DL to Cherrywood. This isn't a route being straightened it's just being truncated. A large number of current users who now have a reasonable frequency direct route are going to be seriously incovenienced.

As for more frequent, tell that to those in Dalkey/Sandycove whose 2/hr service will be halved to a useless 1/hour.

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734344#Comment_122734344

Oh, okay then. not on a "core corridor" then you aren't worth bothering about.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734380#Comment_122734380

That’s what they were talking about was my point - the infrastructure and not the network.

No need to be so aggressive about it!

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734278#Comment_122734278

The problem regarding the truncating of 7/A at Dun Laoghaire could probably spread over to the B3, 98 and possibly the E2 as well. Is the truncating of the buses meaning the switching of the routes to run outside Dun Laoghaire Dart station on Crofton Road? If so; I think all bus routes that run through that part of Dun Laoghaire that terminate their routes at the Dart Station will have that issue as well. I don't know how the 702 to the Airport is going to cope with that issue either.

If the traffic levels get much higher when the E-Spine is rolled out in November. I have no idea how it's going bad it's going to become when some of those routes in Dun Laoghaire get changed over to the new services. The planned pedestrianisation of George's St in Dun Laoghaire is probably going to have a huge impact on the punctuality of the 7/a, 45a/b, 59 & 111 as they have to go down Marine Road now in each direction on a permanent basis. The week-day peak time periods of traffic is going to become a huge test from late November in whether the E-Spine routes are going to become a big success or a big failure in how people can navigate the huge amounts of cars going through the area at those times of the day.

If you observe a traffic collision or other traffic incidents taking place near that part of Dun Laoghaire in the future. It will be a huge disaster if an incident like it had occurred along the roads between the east & west pier. The buses that go along that road have to drive along it to either their completely finish their route or up to half of it when they get to the Dart Station when travelling into part of Dun Laoghaire. The bus passengers will also lose their opportunity to transfer onto the Dart to catch their train on time at the station if their bus gets delayed along that location in future.

Gold7

Was there plans for a new additional terminus behind the Dart Station outside the old Ferry Terminal in Dun Laoghaire.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734684#Comment_122734684

A proper bus hub similar to Liffey Valley, Red Cow or what's being proposed for Tallaght and Blanch SC there would be great. All though I wouldn't get my hopes up Go-Ahead applied for permission for an outstation similar to what they have in the Airport and it was rejected back in 2018.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734948#Comment_122734948

That rejection was about incomplete paperwork in the application though if memory isn't failing me.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734684#Comment_122734684

Yes, there's extra bus parking and an extra roundabout being put in as well to allow for quick turnarounds. It probably won't be in place for the E-spine launch, but it will definitely be required before the B-spine and the other bus connects routes in Dun Laoghaire end up launching.

hfjm20

If it’s not too complicated could someone explain to me the different depots. Are all busses assigned to one depot and from that depot they run particular routes from there. Why is transferring busses such a big deal?

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737499#Comment_122737499

I could you give some of the basics on this situation.

The majority of the bus routes operated by Dublin Bus are run out of one depot. Although in some cases; a small number of their bus routes can be run from 2 depots. All of the C-Spine routes are run from both Phibsboro & Ringsend Depots. The size of Ringsend depot is quite small when compared to Phibsboro. The 142 that runs between UCD & Portobello Road/Portmarnock is another route is run by 2 depots at the current time. It is based out in both Harristown & Clontarf.

The older Dublin Bus routes operated by Go-Ahead Ireland, that consist of a lot of the local routes and orbital routes, are run from their depot in Ballymount. However; 2 of the BusConnects orbital routes like the N4 & S2 are with Dublin Bus. The locals are split up more easily within each operator in the Greater Dublin Region.

The job of switching buses over from one depot to the other does depend on the PVR that is required to run each route. It can also depend on what bills the drivers the vote for when they publish the final timetable for each route that will be put out in service from each depot. The operators can bid to run routes or get the awards to run them straight from the NTA.

hfjm20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738070#Comment_122738070

Do the depots that the buses come from affect what bus type will be on a route. Is there anywhere that explicitly states if a route will be, for example an EW or a PA or is it usually assigned to busy city centre routes?

mikeybhoy

On a separate note I saw picture online of a Bus Eireann Streetlite WM434 in Donnybrook Garage. Is it possible that this bus could be transferring to DB for bus connects read a rumour it could be moving to DB for the launch of the Bray locals?

Seems strange that a BE would be in a DB garage. I'm guessing if it were to transfer it would have to be fitted with Autofare and a right hand Leap validator.

CatInABox

Yesterday I saw a 104 drive up Vernon Avenue from the coast road. Had the potential to be a disaster, with so many cars parked on either side of the road, it was close to becoming gridlocked with a car that decided to overtake cars that had stopped to allow the bus to travel up.

There was an unusual number of cars around castle avenue when I drove past, I wonder did the driver have to divert, or did he just make a mistake…

dublinman1990

https://www.dublinbus.ie/news/additional-departures-on-routes-37,-38,-39a-and-c2

Additional departures are going to be given for the 37, 38, 39a & C2.

The revised timetables for these routes will go live on Monday the 4th of November.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122739049#Comment_122739049

Up until the electrics came in, the only requirement on DB was to provide dual-door buses on specific routes, primarily cross-city services and a few other key routes. A similar requirement was (probably still is) in place for VTs. Some of the electrics are intended for specific services, however, so that will have to be somehow controlled and managed. Other than that, it's up to the individual garages to arrange things as they want.

@dublinman1990 summarised it pretty well. The operation of an entire route out of a single garage is more or less a historic carry-on, but it has advantages nevertheless. Because of the scheduling methods used in Dublin Bus, it's beneficial for as many buses as possible to be on a single working timetable (the so-called "bill"), as this results in more efficient bills: it's better to one working timetable with 15 buses than three bills with five buses each because this allows for more flexibility in duty cutting. The latter might results in three bills of 13 duties each, so a total of 39, while with the former you might be able to do it in 35 duties and still keep a similarly favourable arrangement of working hours as you have more options for drivers to come back after their breaks.

Once you establish the service level one of the primary problems is the garage space. Clontarf, Ringsend, Summerhill, and Conyngham Road garages are small (owing to their locations in between housing in the central areas of the city) and they have very tight limits of maximum fleet sizes (I believe I was quoted somewhere around 95 buses give or take for Cony Road, for example). Phibsboro, Broadstone, Donnybrook, and Harristown on the other hand are sizeable garages that are able to take on somewhat larger fleets. They offer far more flexibility. Bray and Skerries outbases are a story of their own: Bray can only take in 13 buses and requires excellent parking skills, while Skerries is to be closed anyway.

The proposed working timetable for E1 sees 47 buses in service. For one of the first four garages to operate that, it would mean that more than half of their allocation would work those two services. However, Donnybrook is taking that mantle, so it's not the worst for them, as they operate a far larger fleet and are better suited for such large proposals – not to mention that the E1 is to replace a service with currently one of the highest fleet requirements anyway.

hfjm20

Will the E1 and E2 most likely be assigned the PA's?

Midnight_EG

Yes they will, the E1 is operated by DB2 and only that side of Donnybrook uses Pa's, we don't use them in DB1

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122743221#Comment_122743221

Will the Bray outbase still have some bills on the E1? From my understanding, that outbase is effectively an extension of DB1 currently, hence why you tend not to see PAs on the current 145. Whereas the 155 is operated by DB2, hence the proliferation of the PAs on that route.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122743737#Comment_122743737

No, the current proposal is to keep all of Bray working the L12/L14/X2. Sans the peak shorts, the E1 is to be pure Donnybrook.

Midnight_EG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122743737#Comment_122743737

No, Bray is an extension of DB1. They're only getting the L12/14 and the X2

cantthinkofausername1

What bus class will be assigned to the 19 route when it launches in November (bus class such as PA, SG, EW etc)

thomasj

Couldn't care less. If it has 4 wheels, seats, a roof over the head and gets me from A to B without breaking down it does the job for me.

mikeybhoy

The L14 is a bit of a throwback to the Palermo only 185 workings with an extension up to Southern Cross which were also operated by Bray garage I believe. That was a mental timetable to read nearly every departure had some variation to it as most 185s went via Powerscourt back when DB operated.

Arguably the current GAI operated service is even worse with every service going via Palermo. The L15 should be a big improvement on the 185 not having to go into Palermo on every single journey which should better for Enniskerry users of the service.

hfjm20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744369#Comment_122744369

I’d argue the newer PA’s and EW’s are a far nicer ridership experience than the SG’s, EV’s, GT’s and especially the AX’s.