BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

WomanSkirtFan8

devnull wrote: »

Dermot O'Leary whipping up fear by spreading misinformation saying that places such as Cabra, Tyrrelstown and Tallaght among others won't have any direct services because of BusConnects.

What else is new? Wouldnt have expected anything else from.him tbph

devnull

SPDUB wrote: »

Well he's correct about Drimnagh

And Tyrrelstown actually as I think the bus goes to Broombridge? Have edited the post, my bad.

The one that stuck out for me the most was Tallaght mind.

Lord Glentoran

SPDUB wrote: »

Well he's correct about Drimnagh

Which, amazingly, has tram stops.

Lord Glentoran

devnull wrote: »

And Tyrrelstown actually as I think the bus goes to Broombridge? Have edited the post, my bad.

The one that stuck out for me the most was Tallaght mind.

Which, also amazingly, has tram stops as well.

devnull

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Which, amazingly, has tram stops.

Problem is though the likes of the NBRU seem the tram especially, as something completely separate and pretend it does not exist, it's almost like they see them as a competitor.

That's the problem we have had in Dublin for a long time, each operator and mode sees itself as a stand alone operator in their own right and wants to stand on it's own two feet, rather than part of an overall network.

SPDUB

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Which, amazingly, has tram stops.

The edge of it has and if we count the edge then it still has buses ( the crumlin road being the edge on the other side )

Plus one thing people in Drimnagh say about the Luas is that it it packed by the time it reaches there

Daith

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Which, also amazingly, has tram stops as well.

You'll need to explain why transferring to a tram is better than their current direct route. What happens if the Luas is out of action or delayed?

You might think these are trivial things but they are and will be seized upon as big issues.

devnull

Daith wrote: »

You'll need to explain why transferring to a tram is better than their current direct route. What happens if the Luas is out of action or delayed?

What happens on the direct route when there is an accident and the road is blocked or a bus is delayed?

Daith

devnull wrote: »

What happens on the direct route when there is an accident and the road is blocked or a bus is delayed?

The bus generally diverts. Or people can get out. Luas is a tad more restricted in this area. There's also the matter of the Luas being packed at rush hour.

SPDUB

devnull wrote: »

What happens on the direct route when there is an accident and the road is blocked or a bus is delayed?

It goes down another road just liked the 122 went down Dolphin Road and turned at Dolphin's Barn Bridge when Rialto was blocked

devnull

Daith wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

What happens on the direct route when there is an accident and the road is blocked or a bus is delayed?

The bus generally diverts. Or people can get out. Luas is a tad more restricted in this area. There's also the matter of the Luas being packed at rush hour.

In my experience the chances of the Luas being delayed or blocked are less than the chances of the bus being delayed or there being a road accident.

I used to commute from Dundrum to north of the city and found the Luas leg much more reliable than the bus leg.

Daith

devnull wrote: »

In my experience the chances of the Luas being delayed or blocked are less than the chances of the bus being delayed or there being a road accident.

I used to commute from Dundrum to north of the city and found the Luas leg much more reliable than the bus leg.

The Luas is generally reliable but that's not my point. The idea of transferring to it from what was now a direct route (regardless of the issues with that route) is already being successfully used to get people to oppose the plan.

Saving the bus route will be the new "fixed the potholes".

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

Well he's correct about Drimnagh

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1038797050492551168
Walker disagrees

SPDUB

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1038797050492551168
Walker disagrees

All that tells you is that he apparently doesn't know the shape of Drimnagh since he is telling you to leave the area to get on a bus or even Luas and if you want to go down the South Circular Road then change bus

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

All that tells you is that he apparently doesn't know the shape of Drimnagh since he is telling you to leave the area to get on a bus or even Luas and if you want to go down the South Circular Road then change bus

He's saying walk for 3 minutes that's not unreasonable. And it's not just him. It's the NTA, Dublin bus and local councilors

SPDUB

LeinsterDub wrote: »

He's saying walk for 3 minutes that's not unreasonable. And it's not just him. It's the NTA, Dublin bus and local councilors

Maybe not but still doesn't negate the fact that he is telling you to leave Drimnagh and sorry 3 minutes is extremely optimistic for some parts of Driimnagh

Local Councillors ? Not what I'm hearing

KD345

Stephen15 wrote: »

It seems any anytime we do something to improve public transport it get's bad publicity in the media. I don't what their stance is regarding public transport but it seems they have an all change is bad agenda. It's riddiculous Bus Connects gets bad publicity, Luas CC got bad publicity, Metrolink gets bad publicity, DART 10 minute frequency gets bad publicity. It seems the NTA can't win.

I don't understand what people want they complain about how bad public transport is currently but anytime they do something to improve it they don't like it.

I think you need to look at each of the topics you mention before blaming the media. Bus Connects has seen thousands of concerned people come together in their communities to express worry at the changes. Luas Cross City disrupted hundreds of thousands of commuters for weeks, caused gridlock and resulted in new trams being taken off the streets because of breakdowns. Metrolink abruptly announced it was going to disrupt a local sports ground in North Dublin, and the DART 10 minute frequency was delayed because of threatened strike action. I don’t see any reason why the media should not have reported on any of those things.

Spanish Eyes

A big PR push is needed right now and in the coming weeks to counterract all the bandwagon jumping Councillors and TDs, and the NBRU.

Jarret Walker has done his bit, it should not be up to him to refute ridiculous claims by the above. But who should be leading the pack on the positives of BC?

Time to get the finger out whoever it is before the negatives get stuck in people's minds.

KD345

LeinsterDub wrote: »

SPDUB wrote: »

All that tells you is that he apparently doesn't know the shape of Drimnagh since he is telling you to leave the area to get on a bus or even Luas and if you want to go down the South Circular Road then change bus

He's saying walk for 3 minutes that's not unreasonable. And it's not just him. It's the NTA, Dublin bus and local councilors

I like Jarrett Walker, but his plan for Drimnagh is totally wrong, and it concerns me that he feels it’s a 400m walk to replace the cancelling of the 122. It’s not. I use this service a lot and it would be a 1km walk to the D Spine for me. There is nothing replacing the 122 that does not send passengers in a different direction to their travel or will increase their journey time.

The LUAS takes a completely different route to the 122, and in no way offers a connection to the Auinger Street/George’s Street area as the 122 does. The Red Line is very often full when it reaches Inchicore, and this will be made worse when buses from Rathcoole, Newcastle and Clondalkin are being dropped onto the service. The new route 22 is a serious downgrade for connecting Drimnagh to Thomas Street, St. James’ Hospital and Walkinstown.

If the 122 and 123 were carrying only a handful of passengers I could understand, but they’re not. They are busy routes, especially at peak times.

At a recent consultation, one of the NTA staff said they have had a lot of negative feedback regarding the 122 plans and they will address it.

KD345

Reading the constant bickering between Jarrett Walker and various councillors, politicians and union officials, I can’t help feel the NTA have dropped the ball on this. They released a very detailed plan and then stood back as confusion and misinformation took hold. People have genuine concerns and the NTA should have had their spokespeople on every radio and TV show and prepared their social media channels to answer every query immediately. Instead, they appear to have left things to Jarrett Walker. Thankfully, he is an excellent speaker and is clearly passionate about his project from the segments I heard on Newstalk and RTE, and in the pieces I read in newspapers.

That said, he should not be having to defend his plan on Twitter and resorting to confrontation with local councillors. It looks unpleasant and messy. The NTA should never have allowed it to get to this stage, they should have been present at every local meeting, despite how difficult they might have been and honestly answered every question. The Bus Connects Twitter Page should be the only account replying to people, instead we have Jarrett, his design team, and a few very active Twitter users who are jumping in on conversations. Any member of the public who went to Twitter looking for information would be scared off by the tone and wide variety of conversations between various people.

This has been a PR disaster for the NTA and was totally avoidable.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

This has been a PR disaster for the NTA and was totally avoidable.

The problem the NTA have may well be a lack of staff. If you read from their board meetings, in April the NTA raised the following, which suggested they had been going on for some time.

Staffing issues and in particular the increasingly urgent need to fill a number of key staff vacancies in order to ensure that key projects are not delayed. It was agreed that the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport should be advised that delays in the filling of these vacancies will inevitably impact on the delivery of key NTA projects.

They then said in the second half of May that they had approval to fill 12 of these posts but this only went part of the way to addressing the staffing issues and having the staff they needed to fulfill their projects.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

I think you need to look at each of the topics you mention before blaming the media. Bus Connects has seen thousands of concerned people come together in their communities to express worry at the changes. Luas Cross City disrupted hundreds of thousands of commuters for weeks, caused gridlock and resulted in new trams being taken off the streets because of breakdowns. Metrolink abruptly announced it was going to disrupt a local sports ground in North Dublin, and the DART 10 minute frequency was delayed because of threatened strike action. I don’t see any reason why the media should not have reported on any of those things.

A lot of what I have seen is hyperbole and they have been focusing on some complete non-issues and false or misleading information eg changing buses and higher fares. Some media outlets have been balanced such as The journal and The IT however other such as The Independent, the rags and local papers have been noticeably bias against the plan.

I know there are some genuine concerns about frequency and changing buses in some cases for relatively short journies which can currently be done in journey today. If they have concerns they should only submit their individual concerns in their area and not ridicule the plan as a whole.

Another thing is the likes of PBP and the NBRU are stirring it up saying it is a way of privatisation which it is not. Tendering out routes could be done with the existing network as has been done already with the GAI routes.

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

Reading the constant bickering between Jarrett Walker and various councillors, politicians and union officials, I can’t help feel the NTA have dropped the ball on this. They released a very detailed plan and then stood back as confusion and misinformation took hold. People have genuine concerns and the NTA should have had their spokespeople on every radio and TV show and prepared their social media channels to answer every query immediately. Instead, they appear to have left things to Jarrett Walker. Thankfully, he is an excellent speaker and is clearly passionate about his project from the segments I heard on Newstalk and RTE, and in the pieces I read in newspapers.

That said, he should not be having to defend his plan on Twitter and resorting to confrontation with local councillors. It looks unpleasant and messy. The NTA should never have allowed it to get to this stage, they should have been present at every local meeting, despite how difficult they might have been and honestly answered every question. The Bus Connects Twitter Page should be the only account replying to people, instead we have Jarrett, his design team, and a few very active Twitter users who are jumping in on conversations. Any member of the public who went to Twitter looking for information would be scared off by the tone and wide variety of conversations between various people.

This has been a PR disaster for the NTA and was totally avoidable.

Mr Walker is the first INDIVIDUAL expert to actually emerge and take ownership of a Set of Public Transport Proposals in Ireland.....EVER.

I see great virtue in what his Busconnects plan is attempting,which is nothing less than,the abandonment of a set of route structures stretching back over a century.

This alone is a monumental task,and it is all the more credit to a gent from Portland,Oregon that he has managed to stimulate more Discussion,Disagreement and Emotion than every other "Consultancy" that has trousered many millions in fees for "reviews,reports and recommendations on our Public Transport.

However,you are quite correct in suggesting that the NTA has dropped the ball on Busconnects,a ball which it never really had in the first place.

A significant part of the NTA problem is the absence of "Bus People" from it's top tier management.
It is perhaps unsurprising,that as a newly fledged "Authority" in the Irish context,it is fairly densely packed with seconded staff from a wide range of Local & National administration who were offered the "Pint or a Transfer" option which has served successive Irish Governments so well.

The Busconnects launch and subsequent half-hearted Public Consulatation process has proven that the Authority does not have a confident,knowledgeable and passionate Bus Person to sell the plan AND it's future aspects to a traditionally sceptical population.

The NTA now as to make its mind up to Pee or get off the Pot !

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

Maybe not but still doesn't negate the fact that he is telling you to leave Drimnagh and sorry 3 minutes is extremely optimistic for some parts of Driimnagh

Local Councillors ? Not what I'm hearing

DCC and local councilors have been involved since day one. What part of Drimnagh?

LeinsterDub

KD345 wrote: »

I use this service a lot and it would be a 1km walk to the D Spine for me.

Drimnagh has 5 high frequency routes within 1 k of it.

MJohnston

devnull wrote: »

Dermot O'Leary whipping up fear by spreading misinformation saying that places such as Cabra and Tallaght among others won't have any direct services because of BusConnects.

Unbelievable how a public figure is allowed to outright lie in a newspaper like that. He should be out of a job for doing so, sadly we're in the age of the bullshítter instead

Annasopra

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A big PR push is needed right now and in the coming weeks to counterract all the bandwagon jumping Councillors and TDs, and the NBRU.

Jarret Walker has done his bit, it should not be up to him to refute ridiculous claims by the above. But who should be leading the pack on the positives of BC?

Time to get the finger out whoever it is before the negatives get stuck in people's minds.

Jarrett Walkers rude and dismissive attitude doesnt help

Qrt

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Jarrett Walkers rude and dismissive attitude doesnt help

I'd be rude and dismissive too if public figures continually spread misinformation and sometimes personally attacked me.

devnull

Qrt wrote: »

I'd be rude and dismissive too if public figures continually spread misinformation and sometimes personally attacked me.

Occasionally he does have a little bite, but then again there have been a lot of personal attacks on there and there are some people who are deliberately being dishonest in order to whip up fear and confusion and to win over people who haven't read the report or don't have access to it or the internet.

I've no problem with people having alternative point of views and saying them object to the plan, since they have every right to do so, but if I spent aged devising a plan and people started personally attacking me and fabricating stuff and not having a debate in good faith, I'd be pretty miffed.

Annasopra

devnull wrote: »

Occasionally he does have a little bite, but then again there have been a lot of personal attacks on there and there are some people who are deliberately being dishonest in order to whip up fear and confusion and to win over people who haven't read the report or don't have access to it or the internet.

I've no problem with people having alternative point of views and saying them object to the plan, since they have every right to do so, but if I spent aged devising a plan and people started personally attacking me and fabricating stuff and not having a debate in good faith, I'd be pretty miffed.

Its not a good way of doing PR or communications. It really gets peoples backs up. Its good he is answering questions. Its not good that he loses the cool or gets snappy. I can understand why but Jeez if the NTA wants to sell this plan to us snappy rudeness does not help.