BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

MJohnston

It's probably just because he's one of the rare folks involved with the project to have demonstrated a kind of media aptitude. He is stringent and outspoken, makes for a good TV appearance.

In fairness he probably understands the plan better than anyone at NTA too.

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

It's probably just because he's one of the rare folks involved with the project to have demonstrated a kind of media aptitude. He is stringent and outspoken, makes for a good TV appearance.

In fairness he probably understands the plan better than anyone at NTA too.

He also seems to genuinely care too

marno21

Colm McCarthy is constantly on when Metro or similar projects are discussed, where he shreds the rail project in favour of massive bus investment. Why isn't he invited on to discuss a €2bn investment in the bus system?

Darragh O'Brien was basically on there to object for the sake of objecting. He should have been rightly questioned for dropping to the level of having to utilise privatisation hysteria.

Stevek101

I'm sure I've seen him on the Swords Express...

the boss of me

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The random old lady.

She also conviently forgot to mentioned that the new orbital N2 route will stop at her door. If she doesn't want to walk the 120 meters she could catch the n2 to Broom bridge.

Stephen15

marno21 wrote: »

Darragh O'Brien was basically on there to object for the sake of objecting. He should have been rightly questioned for dropping to the level of having to utilise privatisation hysteria.

His argument lost all creditability when he started bringing up privatisation. Something which is not being proposed or is happening and no tendering is not privatisation. I understand why some are concerned about the loss of routes like the 33x and are concerned about capacity issues but privatisation concerns are riddiculous when DB were actually involved in the making the new network.

It's clear to me FF support a fragmented transport system for example John Lahart was giving out about the DB buses being painted in a common livery with Go-Ahead buses. He believes people think DB are great. They love the whole DB 'serving the entire community' rhetoric even if it means serving the entire community with an infrequent service that takes ages.

salmocab

John Lahart is having a meeting tonight in Ballyroan, I can’t make it but I’d love to hear what’s said.
I pulled him up a few months back on FB about his giving out about DB losing their identity.
This is really the lowest dumbest type of politics now, the mainstream parties are acting like the independents who get in based on opposing everything.

Zebra3

FF who introduced the Luas are now suddenly opposed to privitisation?

Interesting.

cherryghost

Anything to please the masses who flip flop support whenever something doesn't suit them

CatInABox

I don't really get his whole privatisation argument either. I mean, the NTA have already privatised* 10% of the Dublin bus network, so it's not like they needed BusConnects to do that. I get the feeling that if they wanted to, they could privatise an awful lot more right now.

*It's a bit of a weird one, but the NTA don't see GoAhead and their routes as privatisation, I think because the routes are still "owned" by the NTA. Semantics, really.

Bray Head

salmocab wrote: »

John Lahart is having a meeting tonight in Ballyroan, I can’t make it but I’d love to hear what’s said.
I pulled him up a few months back on FB about his giving out about DB losing their identity.
This is really the lowest dumbest type of politics now, the mainstream parties are acting like the independents who get in based on opposing everything.

First question at any of these meetings to any speaker should be: "So, did you come here by bus?"

LeinsterDub

CatInABox wrote: »

It's a bit of a weird one, but the NTA don't see GoAhead and their routes as privatisation, I think because the routes are still "owned" by the NTA. Semantics, really.

The routes , buses and garage are all owned by the NTA

markpb

CatInABox wrote: »

*It's a bit of a weird one, but the NTA don't see GoAhead and their routes as privatisation, I think because the routes are still "owned" by the NTA. Semantics, really.

There's a fundamental and huge difference between privatisation and how Luas and the GAI bus routes are operated. GAI and Transdev operate the routes under license from the NTA. They don't own the stock or depots. They don't decide the timetable, service level or ticket prices. More importantly, they get paid a relatively fixed amount. It doesn't matter if the routes are profitable or not because the ticket fares go to the NTA. And most importantly of all, their contract is only for a few years. Once it expires, they have to compete to retain it or it can be awarded to a state agency or another private operator.

CatInABox

markpb wrote: »

There's a fundamental and huge difference between privatisation and how Luas and the GAI bus routes are operated. GAI and Transdev operate the routes under license from the NTA. They don't own the stock or depots. They don't decide the timetable, service level or ticket prices. More importantly, they get paid a relatively fixed amount. It doesn't matter if the routes are profitable or not because the ticket fares go to the NTA. And most importantly of all, their contract is only for a few years. Once it expires, they have to compete to retain it or it can be awarded to a state agency or another private operator.

Oh, I get that, I can't see any of the Dublin Bus network being truly privatised, which is why I'm questioning why O'Brien has such a bee in his bonnet over it.

marno21

CatInABox wrote: »

I don't really get his whole privatisation argument either. I mean, the NTA have already privatised* 10% of the Dublin bus network, so it's not like they needed BusConnects to do that. I get the feeling that if they wanted to, they could privatise an awful lot more right now.

*It's a bit of a weird one, but the NTA don't see GoAhead and their routes as privatisation, I think because the routes are still "owned" by the NTA. Semantics, really.

It's not really privatisation though, what the NTA are doing. The political "anti-privatisation" movement is more to do with state assets being sold off, rather than having the state as an operator and routes tendered out.

The 10% of routes aren't privatised either. Go Ahead won after a competitive rendering process during which Dublin Bus were free to tender (which they did). Its upto Dublin Bus if they want to be competitive.

punisher5112

From what I see it's a race to the bottom and an attack on pay.

Why do we need a UK company coming in and making profit.

It really doesn't make any sense to me.

If you look at how ga started it just shows you the messing that goes on.

LeinsterDub

punisher5112 wrote: »

From what I see it's a race to the bottom and an attack on pay.

Based on Luas this isn't the case

dublinman1990

I saw most of the BusConnects reports Prime Time as I had it on repeat last night. I missed some of it as I only watching from the DIT lecturer up until the very end of the interview with Jarrett Walker & Darragh O'Brien in studio.

What I observed from people being interviewed in the report is they still appear to be confused about what BusConnects brings to them when it talks about the benefits of plan to the wider public. But when Jarrett Walker said that 3% of the respondents from the survey were mentioning infrastructure changes; I thought that was still very positive as we got through the process so far that most people in Dublin still want this plan to be implemented with a small amount of changes as soon as possible. To get to this low level of uncertainty, with only 3 weeks to go until the public consultation on the network redesign ends, is great news. I'm happy that it may not go over the 15% of changes as it was feared from Walker himself from his website.

The idea that protests by small fringe groups being assembled at local meetings does not seem to be swaying far enough in the opposite direction. The small fringe groups out there making the protests are a minority. They are not gaining a huge amount of publicity in not allowing this plan to go through with the possible that are going to be ear marked in the plan.

The public consultation on the infrastructure being provided is another matter that has to be dealt with later on in the year. If the infrastructure has a lot of things that are seen to be good for the majority of bus commuters in Dublin; this will be a great plan to get right for once.

dfx-

marno21 wrote: »

It's not really privatisation though, what the NTA are doing. The political "anti-privatisation" movement is more to do with state assets being sold off, rather than having the state as an operator and routes tendered out.

The 10% of routes aren't privatised either. Go Ahead won after a competitive rendering process during which Dublin Bus were free to tender (which they did). Its upto Dublin Bus if they want to be competitive.

I'm sorry for those who think it's repetitive, but...

Well we don't know if and where they were and weren't competitive because the results were not published. And we should know that.

schemingbohemia

punisher5112 wrote: »

From what I see it's a race to the bottom and an attack on pay. BusConnects? The network redesign has nothing to do with who drives the bus or what they are paid.

Why do we need a UK company coming in and making profit. Have you heard of the EU? Do you have an issue with Veolia?

It really doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps you think the bus service in Dublin is as good as it can be? If so then you might want to look again.

If you look at how ga started it just shows you the messing that goes on.

No idea what GA have to do with BusConnects Network Design.

devnull

NTA Head of Public Affairs now is responding to a few queries on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/dermotog/with_replies

Worth a follow.

sharper

devnull wrote: »

NTA Head of Public Affairs now is responding to a few queries on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/dermotog/with_replies

Worth a follow.

Maybe they've learnt more than just bus network design from their contractors.

Cookie_Monster

punisher5112 wrote: »

From what I see it's a race to the bottom and an attack on pay.

on what basis?

Why do we need a UK company coming in and making profit.

would it be better if it was a German company? Or an Asian one? We need some form of competition in the market in Ireland to break the stranglehold the incompetent CIE group hold.

It really doesn't make any sense to me.

Yet it's the model favoured the world over, clearly it makes sense to a lot of people

AlekSmart

cherryghost wrote: »

Anything to please the masses who flip flop support whenever something doesn't suit them

Ah yes,the democratic masses....."The best arguement against democracy,is a 5 minute conversation with your average voter"
Not altogether untrue.....as the current Political involvement is tending to show ?

AlekSmart

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The routes , buses and garage are all owned by the NTA

Routes & Buses yes,Garage no.

Part of the deliberation process for the BMO contract was the willingness of the Go-Ahead Group to invest some of their own money,in this case €8,000,000 in the process.
They've already begun to get a return on this,as several of their initial intake of Dublin Drivers have been working in various North of England subsidiaries to gain experience.

LeinsterDub

AlekSmart wrote: »

Routes & Buses yes,Garage no.

Thanks for the clarification

LeinsterDub

Reading Twitter it looks like Fianna Fáil have declared war on BC

salmocab

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Reading Twitter it looks like Fianna Fáil have declared war on BC

Well after years of them doing pi55 all for traffic problems you can hardly expect them to cheerlead a change suggested by others.
I really think there is a good chance this whole thing be killed dead by local objections spurred on by fools in opposition.

devnull

The impression I've got with FF in anything bus related in Dublin, is that they care more about the comparatively few people who are working for Dublin Bus, the Unions and that company itself, than the many patrons of bus services and the wider public who we need to switch to sustainable transport to get to work, school, university or see family and friends to prevent gridlock around the corner.

People Before Profit meanwhile come up with the usual soundbite suggestions and overly simplistic one liners, the latest being that everything could be fixed if we had 500 more buses, the fares were cut by 50% and we all listened to the NBRU. Of course, like anything with the hard left, they were not willing to substantiate how they could pay for it or to supply any other details, apart from the usual anti-privatisation rhetoric.

LeinsterDub

This wonderful piece of nonsense from a FF councilor appear on my doorstep today!