The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

irishgeo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i wonder how they are managing that when i havent carried my passport through the airport in nearly a year.

if you mean a passport card, thats scanned too.

Fred Swanson

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trellheim

The article itself notes that not all documents are scanned

The immigration official said the operation of the system was being monitored in the run-up to Christmas to ensure a balance was struck between maximising the volume of checks and ensuring there was no negative impact on passengers arriving here over the holiday period.

Fine words , pity they don't live by them.

Driving licence or other such CTA approved ID?

NO such thing ; Airlines require this . I don't need a passport or driving license to get the train to Belfast Central.

trellheim

double post sorry.

Fred Swanson

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ohnonotgmail

geo wrote: »

if you mean a passport card, thats scanned too.

nope, driving licence only

Negative_G

Since the Veteran obviously works there, why dont they inform us of what one should expect if they decide they don't want to wait and since they appear to be under no legal obligation to do so either.

quitecranky

Hi Guys,

As a regular user of Dublin Airport, and specifically someone whose return flights seem to be coming back in at this time of the evening when there is a glut of flights to T1, I've wasted hours and hours of my life queuing there in the past few months. This is quite annoying while traveling alone with work, it's even more hard to bear when queuing up for 1+ hour at a time late at night with our crying 2 year old son and my tired and heavily pregnant wife. It's simply baffling to me to see that 1000's of hours of people's time are being wasted here and nothing is being done about it. I’ve seen surprisingly little media coverage of it also, I’d expect it will take until maybe some relevant people are personally inconvenienced by it before this happens.

I get the feeling here from a few posters that there may be a few people here that know what the actual situation is (as there seem to be quite a few things at play) so I was hoping that I could get some insight as to who is responsible for it or who is best to speak to in order to do something about it as opposed to just giving out to my wife/son about it while queuing for hours and not actually doing anything.

My own observations on it:

1 I think the main holdup is that the guys in the booths are now scanning every passport of every passenger. I asked the Immigration guy about it last night and was told from December they now scan all passports. This would seem to tie in with this: See Irish Independent article above (I can't post it as this is a new account) "New passport data checks at Dublin airport to combat jihadi terror threat". From a rough count of people being processes last night I’m seeing, on average, it’s taking about 15+ seconds for each person going through, and this would be for people on an Irish passport. That alone vs previous system of the person in the booth (probably Garda till they were replaced in T1) glancing at passport that would have taken about 3-5 seconds (you’d frequently barely have to stop walking while going through) is probably taking about 4 times longer so if they do that for everyone it’s going to be a massive hold up. It strikes me as completely pointless to be scanning Irish people returning home to Ireland. What is the point of this? I think the above article claim that my picture is being sent to Interpol and real-time checked which is doubtful. And even if it is the case it’s clearly not practical to do this for everyone there if it’s leading to massive delays. On a Sunday evening I’d estimate a majority of people in T1 are Irish (mostly returning home after a trip away, weekend or otherwise). Scanning all of these passports seems a completely unnecessary process and big explanation of the delay.

2. Despite the fact that all the booths are staffed I definitely get the impression the staff in them are intentionally going slow. While watching them (and with the hours in the queue there is not a lot else to do) it’s quite obvious to me that they are intentionally going at a slower pace than they should be. I saw one of them that appeared to be pretending to scan passports and an awful lot of unnecessary pausing, just being very slow. My company has quite a lot of people employed doing fairly basic work like this and it’s quite obvious to me that they are intentionally going slow despite the huge queues and upset people. Now I’m confused as to why this is as I believe these guys are not Gardai, are guys that this work has been contracted to. If they are intentionally going slow it should be easy to get rid of them, get someone else in to do the job properly. It’s also a very simple thing to monitor. If you know it should take 8 seconds to check EU passport and they are taking 20 Tying in with my belief that there is something slightly more sinister going on is the fact I have yet to see the automatic machines being used at any time of day. I saw some mention of this previously, that “there was a dispute over the maintenance contract” or something similar. This to me would suggest some kind of union nonsense or similar which is preventing them from being in place and might tie in with whey the people working there seem to be going slower than they should. I believe there was a history of Garda go slows there in the past so it’s probably not a new concept for them. I’ve asked them about this when I’ve got to the top of the queue and their reactions would suggest that what they are doing is intentional. If this is the case, and I’d be surprised if it’s not, it’s pretty unpleasant stuff. It’s one thing intentionally being slow at your job if the consequences are quite distant from you. It’s another when you have a massive queue of people in front of you that you can see are tired and pissed off and you are intentionally causing/adding to their delay. Like I say I find this bit confusing as short of something simple like these guys trying to get more hours of overtime for working late on Sunday evening etc (which is a realistic possibility) I don’t see what their motivation is to intentionally cause/add to this problem.

Like I say if anyone who has a greater knowledge of what the actual problem is here would like to offer it I’d appreciate it. I suspect it’s probably something quite simple but I find it amazing that DAA, the airlines etc are willing to have it happen or indeed that after months of it being a serious problem, it seems absolutely nothing is happening to stop it.

Fred Swanson

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Avada

@quitecranky I'm not going to quote your post, mainly because it is impossible to read.

Afaik, its an EU agreement that all passports are scanned and checked against the Interpol database. Not optional.

And no, staff are not intentionally going slowly. Believe me, they want rid of you as quick as possible. Queues lead to aggressive passengers and make staffs life difficult. The chips are scanned on every passport, depending on the passport this can take up to 20 seconds. They're not contractors, their civil servants.

Just to note, Gardaí in t2 are scanning passports as well.

Spanish Eyes

Mass class action to DAA and DOJ.

DA is the first port of call for many a visitor, business person, and indeed NATIVES!

On yer bikes now.

You can get the email addresses for DAA and DOJ handy enough. Your TD/councillor should be approached also.

I reckon DAA don't care, and there is some kind of standoff between civilian and Garda Immigration personnel. Disgraceful.

But who really cares anyway? Sure they should be lucky to be able to afford to travel abroad and come back in the first place.

I blame DAA myself. They do not seem to have a welcoming immigration area at ALL. But they will blame INIS or GNIB. Jayzis this is typical Ireland isn't it.

Avada

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I don't know what purpose scanning Irish passports serves. All they can be doing is checking against a list of reported stolen documents.
As for checking with Interpol, I don't buy that at all for one second.

https://www.interpol.int/INTERPOL-expertise/Border-management/SLTD-Database

alchemist33

Avada wrote: »

@quitecranky I'm not going to quote your post, mainly because it is impossible to read.

No it isn't.

Fred Swanson

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Avada

Fred Swanson wrote: »

So what happens if their computers go down and there are several flights to be cleared? Is everyone detained until the issue is fixed?

We'll have to wait and see

Negative_G

Avada wrote: »

.

And no, staff are not intentionally going slowly. Believe me, they want rid of you as quick as possible. Queues lead to aggressive passengers and make staffs life difficult. The chips are scanned on every passport, depending on the passport this can take up to 20 seconds. They're not contractors, their civil servants.

There's the first problem. And probably the root cause of it all, along with incompetent management by the DAA.

This notion that you can't expect people to work certain shifts to ensure that there is an appropriate amount of staff present to process large number of passengers is laughabe.

The same people would probably want to be heavily compensated if their tea room was moved down hall.

As I said already, the whole thing stinks of "union rules, bud". The finger pointing that has gone on already is testament to that. "Not my problem, ask the DAA".

Spanish Eyes

Would DAA employees get a fast track through passport control by ANY chance?

You know, nod and wink, show yer security pass with photo and DAA logo, and there you are, go round the back now. Grand.

Must be, maybe, could be. I doubt the CEO of DAA ever has to queue at passport control. Maybe s/he does, but I fekin doubt it.

So if you do not see the carnage, you will not fix it.

Anyway here they are at DAA. Well fed and not tired from standing in queues either.

http://www.daa.ie/our-company/our-team/

info@daa.ie for the complaint emails. It has to start somewhere. I have sent one off myself just now in a fit of pique. LOL.

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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Spanish Eyes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Good question, I reckon they do, along with oh so important politicians aswell maybe.

You see what I mean if it's true? They never see it so don't know what the big deal is for the great unwashed.

Avada

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Do VIPs and other minor celebrities have their own private passport control?

Yes(sort of), its paid for.

https://www.dublinairport.com/at-the-airport/travel-services/platinum-services?gclid=CjwKEAjwja_JBRD8idHpxaz0t3wSJAB4rXW5_luj7pUkt72HmI8YFefgtl76PWOppPY2BdAlHCD2JxoCg3_w_wcB

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I can see someone going to challenge it in court, when the wrong person gets delayed.

Challenge what exactly?

Negative_G

Avada wrote: »

Yes(sort of), its paid for.

https://www.dublinairport.com/at-the-airport/travel-services/platinum-services?gclid=CjwKEAjwja_JBRD8idHpxaz0t3wSJAB4rXW5_luj7pUkt72HmI8YFefgtl76PWOppPY2BdAlHCD2JxoCg3_w_wcB

And if you are arriving into Dublin on your private jet, you will get charged a handsome sum, much larger than what they quote for the "use" of their services.

FBOs at Dublin are forced to use them and pass on the charge from the DAA. Squeezing as much as possible out of them.

Then again, if you can afford to travel via private jet, you wont lose any sleep over a few hundred quid.

The Veteran

Negative_G wrote: »

There's the first problem. And probably the root cause of it all, along with incompetent management by the DAA.

This notion that you can't expect people to work certain shifts to ensure that there is an appropriate amount of staff present to process large number of passengers is laughabe.

The same people would probably want to be heavily compensated if their tea room was moved down hall.

As I said already, the whole thing stinks of "union rules, bud". The finger pointing that has gone on already is testament to that. "Not my problem, ask the DAA".

Where did anyone say that anyone refused to work any shift pattern.

The shift pattern is public knowledge ...

06:00 to 18:00 (2 Units)
14:00 to 02:00
18:00 to 06:00

That means there are two Units in duty in the nightly "rush hour". Some officers work the Lufthansa and other 'odd' flights into Pier 3. There is one and a half if not almost two full Units in the main area for the rush.

No breaks are allowed after 22:30 approx.

Last night there were more (a good few more) on duty than desks available.

Yesterday the Mail on Sunday had a story (repeated in dublin Live today) about a row over maintenance contracts closing the automatic Gates. Where did that tripe come from? The pilot is over; Gates are closed and due to be removed.

As I said before ... ask the right questions in the right official channels.

Ask the Department for the contact email address of the airport immigration guys.

plodder

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think it would be a problem so long as you co-operated with the officer's attempt to verify you were a citizen. If you stone-walled and refused to talk, then I think you'd be looking at a lengthier process I imagine.

plodder

The Veteran wrote: »

Yesterday the Mail on Sunday had a story (repeated in dublin Live today) about a row over maintenance contracts closing the automatic Gates. Where did that tripe come from? The pilot is over; Gates are closed and due to be removed.

Just to clarify. Are you saying the automatic scanning booths are to be done away with?

As I said before ... ask the right questions in the right official channels.

Ask the Department for the contact email address of the airport immigration guys.

Personally, if I were being affected by this, I would contact my local TDs.

Avada

plodder wrote: »

Just to clarify. Are you saying the automatic scanning booths are to be done away with?

To be replaced by whatever company won the tender

Negative_G

The Veteran wrote: »

Where did anyone say that anyone refused to work any shift pattern.

The shift pattern is public knowledge ...

06:00 to 18:00 (2 Units)
14:00 to 02:00
18:00 to 06:00

That means there are two Units in duty in the nightly "rush hour". Some officers work the Lufthansa and other 'odd' flights into Pier 3. There is one and a half if not almost two full Units in the main area for the rush.

No breaks are allowed after 22:30 approx.

Last night there were more (a good few more) on duty than desks available.

Yesterday the Mail on Sunday had a story (repeated in dublin Live today) about a row over maintenance contracts closing the automatic Gates. Where did that tripe come from? The pilot is over; Gates are closed and due to be removed.

As I said before ... ask the right questions in the right official channels.

Ask the Department for the contact email address of the airport immigration guys.

eeguy wrote: »

Because busy times may only be an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. They can't bring in 6 people to work a 2 hour split shift.

If the shifts need to be adjusted to provide more personnel at busier times then it should be a simple solution to do that. Get people into the booths and then deploy them elsewhere when the demand lessens. Surely there are other tasks and responsibilities for them other than scanning passports?

Since you are reading the thread, would you care to provide an answer to my previous question directed to you?

Avada

Negative_G wrote: »

If the shifts need to be adjusted to provide more personnel at busier times then it should be a simple solution to do that. Get people into the booths and then deploy them elsewhere when the demand lessens. Surely there are other tasks and responsibilities for them other than scanning passports?

The Veteran has already pointed out that there are more staff than booths most of the time (further back in the thread). Staffing shortages were a problem, they aren't anymore.

The Veteran

plodder wrote: »

Just to clarify. Are you saying the automatic scanning booths are to be done away with?

Personally, if I were being affected by this, I would contact my local TDs.

The pilot Gates are going over the coming weeks.

There are new expanded Gates (in terms of the number) coming for both Terminals. Been planned for ages but tender only finished in last few weeks.

trellheim

Afaik, its an EU agreement that all passports are scanned and checked against the Interpol database. Not optional.

Untrue; there is no requirement to provide a passport for a CTA flight. If there was, we'd need passports for the Belfast train or the Aircoach.

In addition, The independent link above shows Immigration officers publicly saying passport checking will be eased off in the peaks. ( Or words equivalent )

Ref the egates see this link for their removal http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/millions-face-dublin-airport-delays-13103555

An absolute shambles.