The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

The key phrase here is 'opinion' and that is fine, just as all of our posts here are. Yours and mine are very different.

Again - you are trying to muffle the issue. I am not arguing for zero CTA checks, only a consistent implementation across all borders. Random checks does fine everywhere other than airports. This, implemented for CTA , would remove the queues instantly, and allow the CTA to function as it should.

I repeat - for UK & IE citizens on inbound CTA flights, you are not required by law to show ID unless it is demanded.

Please stop telling me what I am trying to do. I am not trying to muffle anything, and I think that you're being a little bit insulting to me by that statement.

I am flagging something that I consider to be an issue around the CTA whether you agree with that or not, which is immigration control over non-EU citizens into our country. That's not muffling anything.

It is politically unacceptable and, let's be honest, practically impossible to have full checks along the ROI/NI border, so you are never going to have a completely consistent approach.

Again, the numbers of non-UK and Irish citizens entering the State through our airports are massive compared to the other locations and ignoring that fact is rather like putting one's head in the sand - and I do believe that they should be checked at the airports - that in my view is why we have the setup that we have.

I don't see how you can differentiate between UK & Irish citizens and those from outside Ireland & the EU at the main point of entry into our country (the airports) without either having full checks or a proper international legal agreement with common visas for the two jurisdictions.

trellheim

There is no intention to insult. I do consider your view fundamentally incorrect.

However, if the powers-that-be felt the same way you do, they're entitled to legislate to mandate document checks ; they have not.

It is within their power to segregate CTA arrivals and check them randomly, thus removing the queues and enabling a consistent, standards-led, and intelligence led border experience

They do not, instead officers ( a limited resource ) seem to me to be targeted at checking a majority of people who do not need checking .

When asked for reasons , or guidelines, or policy why they ignore the spirit of the CTA ( as practised by the UK ) , not a single published document has been provided.

The UK has just lowered their terror alerts from the highest level. Did the CTA on the UK side vanish during the last week ? ( they would have been fully entitled, and indeed justified in doing so, I remember in 1988 being grilled extremely harshly by their coppers due to the IRA bombing campaign then in force , and I could only agree with what the copper was doing )

No It did not.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

There is no intention to insult. I do consider your view fundamentally incorrect.

However, if the powers-that-be felt the same way you do, they're entitled to legislate to mandate document checks ; they have not.

It is within their power to segregate CTA arrivals and check them randomly, thus removing the queues and enabling a consistent, standards-led, and intelligence led border experience

They do not, instead officers ( a limited resource ) seem to me to be targeted at checking a majority of people who do not need checking .

When asked for reasons , or guidelines, or policy why they ignore the spirit of the CTA ( as practised by the UK ) , not a single published document has been provided.

The UK has just lowered their terror alerts from the highest level. Did the CTA on the UK side vanish during the last week ? ( they would have been fully entitled, and indeed justified in doing so, I remember in 1988 being grilled extremely harshly by their coppers due to the IRA bombing campaign then in force , and I could only agree with what the copper was doing )

No It did not.

Well I don't see the practice changing anytime soon to be honest I'm afraid.

But as I said before, perhaps get your local TD to lay down some very specifically worded questions and then submit follow up questions to try and get an answer. A Dail question has got to be phrased in a particular way in order to get the answer that you are looking for, anything too general allows them wriggle room to get out of answering it.

Personally I think you're on a hiding to nothing on trying to get the checks removed.

grogi

In fairness, anyone arriving from UK that is not UK citizen, would have been already properly drilled when entering UK.

LXFlyer

grogi wrote: »

In fairness, anyone arriving from UK that is not UK citizen, would have been already properly drilled when entering UK.

Yes but there are virtually no common visas between the UK & Ireland.

Just because someone is entitled to enter the UK, it does not follow that they are entitled to enter Ireland - they require, in the vast majority of cases, a separate visa.

We have separate immigration rules and visa requirements.

The UK is not mandated to perform immigration checks on our behalf.

Until we have a common visa programme with the UK I cannot see how you could police this without checks at our airports.

ohnonotgmail

I've never seen more than a handful of people get off a flight from the UK and go to the Non-EU queue. they can surely come up with a better system for EU passengers.

Avada

grogi wrote: »

In fairness, anyone arriving from UK that is not UK citizen, would have been already properly drilled when entering UK.

Not really. If they're transiting the UK to get to Ireland, they won't ask them much.

Trellheim, if you want to see why there is immigration on Uk flights, do an FOI on the number of people refused leave to land from UK flights last year.

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That check however is still not one that is an official check on immigration to this State - it only covers the UK.

Avada

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Transit passengers to Ireland from the UK are processed by the UKBA before they can access the CTA gates.

I know, but they would not be under the level of scrutiny as someone intending to visit/enter the UK. It would be quite basic.

plodder

I have to say I'm convinced more than ever now, that the "justification" for this setup has arisen after the fact. And the real reason was probably the DAA wanting a more flexible use of gates when T1 started to get very busy. Maybe in the early days most arrivals at the airport were EU or US citizens who would be processed quickly, and that's no longer the case. Given that the CTA effectively doesn't operate at Dublin airport, I suppose it does give a chilling foretaste of what could be coming down the tracks, at the NI border and sea ports, with Brexit.

kc56

Passed through the e-gates at Heathrow T3 yesterday in 2 mins but it took 25mins at T2 Dublin on arriving from Heathrow. More e-gates might help. They had some in T1 but none yet in T2 (same with boarding card scanners).

Wonder what happens in UK after Brexit?

Grandeeod

My third month in a row arriving back in DUB post 10pm. Same story each time. A long wait. Scanners blocked off and forced through a booth only for a jobsworth to ask me where I had come from and where was I heading on to.:eek: If you are timing yourself for an Aircoach or similar, it's totally unpredictable now.

If this continues, I reckon it will make the news during peak summer season.

kc56

I recall arriving from Abu Dhabi last year and literally walking through passport control, pause a minute from my bag and getting to the coach park all within 30mins of touch down. Yesterday, that trip took over an hour for a 1810 arriving Heathrow flight.

trellheim

Trellheim, if you want to see why there is immigration on Uk flights, do an FOI on the number of people refused leave to land from UK flights last year.

No. Any border agency should be able to justify its existence and rationale with publicly agreed policy and procedure. We have two ( GNIB and INIS ) - we do not know if they maintain similar standards or even act according to any standards at all

I am sure there are people watching this debate who can contribute these facts from their own computers without breaking the law.

Educate me ; prove with open facts that

UK Border Force's way of doing things ( semirandom, intelligence-led checks on CTA passengers ) is worse than the way we do it



A larger hall will not help matters in the slightest . E Gates will not help CTA passengers who don t have passports. In fact if you walk past an egate what law are you breaking if you are an Irish citizen on a CTA flight

TheChizler

I wonder what would happen if you were brazen enough to skip the queue, and flash the Irish passport and boarding pass when they stopped you. Legally should they let you walk on at that point?

Fred Swanson

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TheChizler

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Legally they shouldn't, but in practice? Has anyone tried this?

grogi

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Of course they can. Border control can flag one as suspicious and drill accordingly. Instead of spending pointless 30 minutes in queue, one would 6 hours in A/C room.

Blue House Bear

I was under the assumption that the GNIB officers where Garda officers?

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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Blue House Bear

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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So they could stop you from just walking through and can arrest you on suspicion of committing a crime.

Fred Swanson

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Blue House Bear

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Are you allowed to just walk out without having your passport checked?

I don't actually know, thats why I am asking.

trellheim

Of course they can. Border control can flag one as suspicious and drill accordingly. Instead of spending pointless 30 minutes in queue, one would 6 hours in A/C room.

Of course they can. However, an Irish citizen from CTA merely not showing any documents without being demanded to do so is no crime and can't be considered suspicious - the law is very clear.

JCX BXC

eeguy wrote: »

Because busy times may only be an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. They can't bring in 6 people to work a 2 hour split shift.

Then bring 6 people in to work a 6 hour shift, and have an overlap of 3 hours between the two sets of staff. Plenty of other airports manage to cope, why can't Dublin?

trellheim

Are you allowed to just walk out without having your passport checked?

I don't actually know, thats why I am asking.

If you are coming from UK and ROI AND you are a citizen of the UK or ROI - yes, correct.

The immigration Act 2004 specifically exempts them from the Act; for CTA passengers it is NOT a passport control and is not labelled correctly.
Aer Lingus just require valid photo ID, the only requirement for a passport is actually Ryanair. And even though you came in on a Ryanair flight from the UK and brought a passport, you don't need to show it ; legally you can walk on past unless he stops you.

You must produce a passport when debarking from a flight from all other countries as it is then, correctly, a legal passport control.

if you think this is nuts you are correct, see one of my posts above where an Irish judge calls it utterly looney tunes.

eusap

The reason for the queues increasing over the last few weeks is because passports are not just visually checked and waved on anymore. All passports are now scanned and checked against an Interpol database, this is not going to change. It is here to stay

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-passport-data-checks-at-dublin-airport-to-combat-jihadi-terror-threat-35310776.html

ohnonotgmail

eusap wrote: »

The reason for the queues increasing over the last few weeks is because passports are not just visually checked and waved on anymore. All passports are now scanned and checked against an Interpol database, this is not going to change. It is here to stay

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-passport-data-checks-at-dublin-airport-to-combat-jihadi-terror-threat-35310776.html

i wonder how they are managing that when i havent carried my passport through the airport in nearly a year.