Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

James Ryan has more caps for Munster than Leinster

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

It was only Munster Development. If he'd turned out for the Munster seniors, no way was he going on tour. This is Joe Schmidt we're talking about.

Yeah but all it matters is that it counts as Munster for World Rugby. Clearly part of the program for 1st tier sides to start interacting more with 2nd tier sides under the new calendar.

Squidgy Black

I'll put my hands up and say I was extremely sceptical of the people saying Ryan was going to be picked, but fair play to those who knew.

errlloyd

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I'll put my hands up and say I was extremely sceptical of the people saying Ryan was going to be picked, but fair play to those who knew.

I am almost certain the reason for the skepticism is that the first mention on this board about James Ryan going was DEFINITELY a joke - so when a serious poster suggested it I thought they were just referencing the previous in joke.

.ak

stephen_n wrote: »

Huh am I reading that wrong? Murray is 6'2"

Is he? Jaysus I wouldn't put him as 3 inches taller than Fofana.

I wonder about the stats sometimes.

Interested Observer

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I'll put my hands up and say I was extremely sceptical of the people saying Ryan was going to be picked, but fair play to those who knew.

Being skeptical was the only sensible way to look at it imo, this is the most un-Schmidt-like selection we've probably ever seen.

But yes, the poster (scrights I think?) had it spot on.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Being skeptical was the only sensible way to look at it imo, this is the most un-Schmidt-like selection we've probably ever seen.

But yes, the poster (scrights I think?) had it spot on.

Payne was out of left field when first picked at 13. Carbery getting a call up similarly. Dillane was also a surprise at the time and he brought through Dave Kearney also.

mogwai81

I wonder has James Ryan's injury helped his progression in a roundabout way. I remember hearing that he looked a bit light and seemed to get out muscled in his B&I cup games for Leinster. On the Hard Yards podcast I think it was Mike McCarthy who said he had put on some serious muscle while out injured.
A similar programme during pre-season could be a big help to Ross Molony, continuing on from the work he did during the season.

mogwai81

mogwai81 wrote: »

I wonder has James Ryan's injury helped his progression in a roundabout way. I remember hearing that he looked a bit light and seemed to get out muscled in his B&I cup games for Leinster. On the Hard Yards podcast I think it was Mike McCarthy who said he had put on some serious muscle while out injured.
A similar programme during pre-season could be a big help to Ross Molony, continuing on from the work he did during the season.

Size doesn't equal power, but he's been bigger than a lot of internationals for the last two years. He's a freak given how filled out his frame is for a 6"8 lad at 22.

That's not the exciting thing about him though. He's naturally very academic and his smarts are evident on the rugby pitch. He would have been a terrific half but his attributes mean he could be a world class lock. It's not hype in this instance, the serious buyers are throwing down the cash. Paulie v.2.1 (but bigger)

Christy42

Interested Observer wrote: »

Being skeptical was the only sensible way to look at it imo, this is the most un-Schmidt-like selection we've probably ever seen.

But yes, the poster (scrights I think?) had it spot on.

Not really. It was more this forum that has built up this image of Schmidt in their heads. I was unsure if Ryan would go or how much the original poster was joking at first but I think too many were building up an outrage over selections that had not been made. A few were close to raging over ROG being selected for the tour!*

*note last line may in fact be a joke.

the baby bull elephant

Deleted User wrote: »

mogwai81 wrote: »

I wonder has James Ryan's injury helped his progression in a roundabout way. I remember hearing that he looked a bit light and seemed to get out muscled in his B&I cup games for Leinster. On the Hard Yards podcast I think it was Mike McCarthy who said he had put on some serious muscle while out injured.
A similar programme during pre-season could be a big help to Ross Molony, continuing on from the work he did during the season.

Size doesn't equal power, but he's been bigger than a lot of internationals for the last two years. He's a freak given how filled out his frame is for a 6"8 lad at 22.

That's not the exciting thing about him though. He's naturally very academic and his smarts are evident on the rugby pitch. He would have been a terrific half but his attributes mean he could be a world class lock. It's not hype in this instance, the serious buyers are throwing down the cash. Paulie v.2.1 (but bigger)

Ryan isn't even 22. He was born in 1996.

Interested Observer

He's still 20.

bilston

So three members of last year's JWC squad touring with Ireland this summer and all three al out certain to be capped. Great stuff. The scary thing about last year's side is that there are two or three more who could potentially make the step up. But the three selected look to have the potential to be central figures in the Ireland set up over the next 10+ years.

Historically the very best players tend to get thrown in pretty early in their careers. Most of them have been capped by 22 or 23 and some even earlier. If you've got it you've got it. For all the accusations of conservatism being rife in Irish squad and team selections plenty of players have made their debut before the age of 22 or 23.

With my Ulster hat on and looking at players I watch week in week out I'd say Sean Reidy is a bit unlucky but maybe given his age and his "ceiling" (although I'm not sure I buy into the idea of players having a ceiling) it's understandable he's been left out. I'd have been tempted to have brought McCloskey too. He was in decent form at the end of the season after a generally disappointing campaign (as much due to injury than anything) but he brings something very different to the midfield. Anyway he can't have any complaints, like most of the Ulster centres he suffers from there being too many of them of the same level. There is so little between McCloskey, Marshall and Olding for example that Kiss hasn't a clue who his first choice midfield is and therefore there is a total lack of consistency in selection which probably messes with the players mindsets...anyway that's a moan for another thread...

In conclusion a good squad with an eye, and probably an eye and a half to the future.

Peregrine

I'll be honest, I was joking when I put up Ryan's picture on the first page. Didn't expect it to happen at all.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Payne was out of left field when first picked at 13. Carbery getting a call up similarly. Dillane was also a surprise at the time and he brought through Dave Kearney also.

Yeah and remember McFadden getting called up?

/runs away

pickarooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDX5gINaZws

Podge_irl

The Bone Collector wrote: »

MOD: re-regs don't have a voice here

Technically James Ryan has no form.

.ak

Well just looking at the 6n fixtures for '18/'19 and I find it difficult to see us winning either of them with those schedules. We have a tendency to start tournaments a bit cold, and both openers are France and England respectively.

I think next year will be a repeat of this year; an opening loss in a messy game, followed by three strong home performances but any hope will be dashed by the 2nd away game...

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

Well just looking at the 6n fixtures for '18/'19 and I find it difficult to see us winning either of them with those schedules. We have a tendency to start tournaments a bit cold, and both openers are France and England respectively.

I think next year will be a repeat of this year; an opening loss in a messy game, followed by three strong home performances but any hope will be dashed by the 2nd away game...

Meh, we've lost to France once in 6 years and that was by 1 point when our scrum was mangled while missing our first choice TH.

I don't particularly agree with the contention that we tend to start tournaments cold anyway. We didn't have a great opening to the last 2 6N but you're trying to create a trend out of that which I don't think exists. Missing Sexton and Ross respectively those two years was fairly relevant to the slow starts I think.

Short of ending up with a schedule of England, France and Wales in a row - which would be unpleasant - I don't think the order of games is all that relevant anyway. I certainly wouldn't be basing a prognosis for our performance on it.

Former Former

bilston wrote: »

With my Ulster hat on and looking at players I watch week in week out I'd say Sean Reidy is a bit unlucky but maybe given his age and his "ceiling" (although I'm not sure I buy into the idea of players having a ceiling) it's understandable he's been left out. I'd have been tempted to have brought McCloskey too. He was in decent form at the end of the season after a generally disappointing campaign (as much due to injury than anything) but he brings something very different to the midfield. Anyway he can't have any complaints, like most of the Ulster centres he suffers from there being too many of them of the same level. There is so little between McCloskey, Marshall and Olding for example that Kiss hasn't a clue who his first choice midfield is and therefore there is a total lack of consistency in selection which probably messes with the players mindsets...anyway that's a moan for another thread...

In conclusion a good squad with an eye, and probably an eye and a half to the future.

Yeah, I think Reidy is unlucky, being 28 probably counted against him.

McCloskey is a different story. Like Gilroy, this is exactly the sort of tour that he should be going on, but instead he's been stepped over by Scannell and O'Loughlin. He'll need something very special to get back into the frame.

Other guys who fall into the 'big loser' bracket:
- Quinn Roux; capped last year, in the wider squad for the Six Nations, now behind Dillane, Treadwell, Ryan and possibly Molony.
- Denis Buckley; a boards.ie favourite, probably needs a biblical injury crisis to earn a cap now.
- James Cronin; looked to be overtaking Kilcoyne at one point but fell back

For more experienced internationals like Trimble, Strauss and McFadden, it's hard to know what exclusion means. Certainly it's hard to see Trimble being ditched completely at this point.

Dezekota

Jaysus Gilroy gets hattrick v Italy in 6 nations but can't get into a squad minus 11 players for lions trip and no kearneys or Mcfadden

awec

McCloskey and Schmidt have issues I think.

Dezekota

awec wrote: »

McCloskey Ulster centres and Schmidt have issues I think.

FYP

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Well just looking at the 6n fixtures for '18/'19 and I find it difficult to see us winning either of them with those schedules. We have a tendency to start tournaments a bit cold, and both openers are France and England respectively.

I think next year will be a repeat of this year; an opening loss in a messy game, followed by three strong home performances but any hope will be dashed by the 2nd away game...

I don't think we could've asked for a better schedule to be honest. France away is typically the most attritional fixture IMO and having that first with hopefully a full deck to choose from is ideal. I prefer the idea of facing France first up when they're yet to hit their stride and may be trying out some new combinations.
Italy the next week is a banker victory so won't be under pressure to go full strength.
Home to Scotland and away to England is a nice way to finish. Even if we lose the first game there's a good chance we'll still be in contention. Twickenham on Paddy's day will be a heck of an occasion.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

McCloskey and Schmidt have issues I think.

His ability to go missing in defense probably.

stephen_n

Dezekota wrote: »

FYP

Jared Payne?

Buer

awec wrote: »

McCloskey and Schmidt have issues I think.

If the whispers that came from some last summer are true and he turned down a call up, he'll never play for Ireland again under Schmidt.

awec

Buer wrote: »

If the whispers that came from some last summer are true and he turned down a call up, he'll never play for Ireland again under Schmidt.

Yes that's what I am talking about.

errlloyd

Dezekota wrote: »

awec wrote: »

McCloskey Ulster Centres and Schmidt have issues I think.

FYP

Just start McCloskey at fullback for Ulster. He'll be back playing centre for Ireland in no time.

Interested Observer

awec wrote: »

Yes that's what I am talking about.

Is there any substance to that though? I don't even understand how a player contacted to a province can decide they aren't going to play, surely it's effectively gross misconduct?

Bridge93

Was I completely imagining things or was it mentioned that Gilroy was going to Newcastle?