Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

thomond2006

Ultan Dillane is set to be fit for Connacht's playoff. He's the likely callup.

whatawaster

Would expect an inexperienced side against USA and then the big (ish) guns against Japan in game 1, maybe a few tweaks for the second test.

v USA

O'Halloran, Conway, O'Loughlin, Scannell, Stockdale, Carbery, McGrath

Kilcoyne, Tracy, Bealham, Treadwell, Dillane or Molony, Ruddock (c), O'Donnell, O'Donoghue

Subs: Heffernan, John Ryan, Porter, James Ryan, Leavy, Cooney, Jackson, Earls


v Japan (1)

Zebo, Earls, Ringrose, Marshall, Stockdale, Jackson, Marmion

Healy, Scannell, John Ryan, Toner, Treadwell, Ruddock (c), Van Der Flier, Conan

Subs: Tracy, Kilcoyne, Bealham, Dillane or Molony, Leavy, McGrath, Carbery, Conway


v Japan (2)

Carbery, Earls, Ringrose, Scannell, Zebo, Jackson, McGrath

Healy, Scannell, John Ryan, Toner, Dillane or Molony, Ruddock (c), Leavy, Conan

Subs: Tracy, Kilcoyne, Porter, James Ryan, Van Der Flier, Marmion, Stockdale, O'Halloran

CIARAN_BOYLE

Interested Observer wrote: »

Is there any substance to that though? I don't even understand how a player contacted to a province can decide they aren't going to play, surely it's effectively gross misconduct?

I don't think they can be forced to play international rugby by contract. It dose tend to result in the player being treated as a niq by the union though which will result in their contract not being renewed.

Former Former

I don't believe that McCloskey was the player who refused the call-up. No-one is that stupid.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I don't think they can be forced to play international rugby by contract. It dose tend to result in the player being treated as a niq by the union though which will result in their contract not being renewed.

But these guys are all dually contracted to the province and the IRFU?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Former Former wrote: »

But these guys are all dually contracted to the province and the IRFU?

I'm fairly sure that World Rugby would not allow contracts requiring that someone plays international rugby. However its done on an informal basis.

thomond2006

Only a few survivors from the US tour squad 4 years ago. 4 are 2017 Lions.

Rory Best, Mike Sherry, Richardt Strauss
David Kilcoyne, Tom Court
Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick, Jamie Hagan
Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
Chris Henry, Kevin McLaughlin, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony

Isaac Boss, Kieran Marmion, Paul Marshall,
Paddy Jackson, Ian Madigan
Stuart Olding, Robbie Henshaw, Darren Cave
Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, Felix Jones

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

Only a few survivors from the US tour squad 4 years ago. 4 are 2017 Lions.

Rory Best, Mike Sherry, Richardt Strauss
David Kilcoyne, Tom Court
Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick, Jamie Hagan
Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
Chris Henry, Kevin McLaughlin, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony

Isaac Boss, Kieran Marmion, Paul Marshall,
Paddy Jackson, Ian Madigan
Stuart Olding, Robbie Henshaw, Darren Cave
Fergus McFadden, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo, Felix Jones

Paul Marshall, shows how little depth we had at SH even then.

thomond2006

stephen_n wrote: »

Paul Marshall, shows how little depth we had at SH even then.

The age profile of this year's squad is a lot younger too.

Interested Observer

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I don't think they can be forced to play international rugby by contract. It dose tend to result in the player being treated as a niq by the union though which will result in their contract not being renewed.

As the IRFU have pointed out in the past, everyone who plays here is contracted to the IRFU. I would be really surprised if there's nothing about international rugby in the contracts of IQ players.

If it's true then he's a dope and shouldn't be picked. I suspect it isn't though and there's something in his game Schmidt isn't mad on. Or hasn't seen enough development in during his tenure. Etc etc.

damianmcr

When do the tickets for the Autumn Internationals go on sale?

Am I too late to join the supporters club for these games?

Thanks

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

Paul Marshall, shows how little depth we had at SH even then.

I still remember the final play of that USA game. Marshall was at a ruck at halfway. Madigan was standing outside at first receiver. Jamie Hagan was standing a few metres away from Madigan, trying to stop himself suffering a cardiac arrest as a 19 stone prop does in Houston in June.

Marshall f*cks the ball at Hagan who spills it.

No wonder people were drinking heavily for the next game.

The Lost Sheep

damianmcr wrote: »

When do the tickets for the Autumn Internationals go on sale?

Am I too late to join the supporters club for these games?

Thanks

The clubs, schools, representative parts of the branch will have sent in the number of tickets they want in the past few weeks. Whatever tickets go on public sale will depend on their allocations.
It isnt too late to join IRFU supporters club but its a big lottery to get tickets from there

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

I still remember the final play of that USA game. Marshall was at a ruck at halfway. Madigan was standing outside at first receiver. Jamie Hagan was standing a few metres away from Madigan, trying to stop himself suffering a cardiac arrest as a 19 stone prop does in Houston in June.

Marshall f*cks the ball at Hagan who spills it.

No wonder people were drinking heavily for the next game.

I recall a pretty legendary match thread. Can anyone dig out the link?

Former Former

damianmcr wrote: »

When do the tickets for the Autumn Internationals go on sale?

Am I too late to join the supporters club for these games?

Thanks

Usually late summer, so still plenty of time to join.

Matches this year are South Africa, Fiji and Argentina - there will be plenty of tickets, I would expect a public sale on Ticketmaster.

DGRulz

thomond2006 wrote: »

I recall a pretty legendary match thread. Can anyone dig out the link?

I tried looking for it there but couldn't find it. A lot of crazy stuff went on in that game, maybe we imagined it?

thomond2006

Boom!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84981418

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84985206&postcount=516
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84985385&postcount=640

irishman86

stephen_n wrote: »

**** that's an awful lot of injuries so, must be the most unfortunate coach in history for injuries.

How many got into the team through form then?
Not single cap players against teams like Canada against a bigger team

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

The age profile of this year's squad is a lot younger too.

Particularly in the forwards, there were a good few young backs there.

Dave_The_Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

I recall a pretty legendary match thread. Can anyone dig out the link?

A few things contributed to that:

a) the quality of the game.
b) the quality of the referee and the interesting ruck interpretations
c) the fact that a lot of us were drinking heavily, it being the wee hours of the morning.

Good times.

stephen_n

irishman86 wrote: »

How many got into the team through form then?
Not single cap players against teams like Canada against a bigger team

The figures don't lie, more capped players than any other coach, but they're all injury enforced? Seriously does that actually make sense in your head when you type it?

Club form means nothing or very little at international level. If the guys who got caps against Canada or whoever, were actually good enough to displace what's ahead of them, then they would. The fact they failed to take that opportunity suggests they aren't. Form in most people's minds seems to be based on what player x does in attack, then completely ignores everything else. Which of these form players who got their shot in a lesser game demanded inclusion and didn't get it?

Winters

Re the USA highlights. The league has been called many things but the "Rabo Pro Direct" is a first..

molloyjh

irishman86 wrote: »

How many got into the team through form then?

None. Not one. In any national team ever. Not just Ireland.

People talk about form as this single determining factor. It really, really isn't. Players get into their national teams training squads on the back of form and probably a few other things (physical build, attitude, character etc). From there they get the chance to, basically, audition for a spot in a squad. And from there a chance to prove themselves capable of a match day squad. There is no single determining factor to selection.

For example Ferg got into the 6Ns squad for the last week back in March, not because of his form, but because he was going to be able to slot straight in and do exactly what the coaches needed him to do without instruction. He was never going to be in the match day squad, they just needed numbers for training. So they brought in a guy who knew what was expected of him, that they didn't have to coach, and who also brought with him a great work ethic even when he wasn't getting selected which sets a really good tone in the camp. These are the other things that coaches need to consider when selecting squads and match day sides. Not just how well someone is playing for a totally different team, playing a totally different way at a totally different level.

Interested Observer

molloyjh wrote: »

For example Ferg got into the 6Ns squad for the last week back in March, not because of his form, but because he was going to be able to slot straight in and do exactly what the coaches needed him to do without instruction. He was never going to be in the match day squad, they just needed numbers for training. So they brought in a guy who knew what was expected of him, that they didn't have to coach, and who also brought with him a great work ethic even when he wasn't getting selected which sets a really good tone in the camp. These are the other things that coaches need to consider when selecting squads and match day sides. Not just how well someone is playing for a totally different team, playing a totally different way at a totally different level.

This is the best thing about the summer tour squad. He's going to have players like Stockdale now who are fare more talented that he'll be able to call up instead now in the next 6N. It'll be worth shipping a loss against Japan for that alone, if it came to pass.

molloyjh

Interested Observer wrote: »

This is the best thing about the summer tour squad. He's going to have players like Stockdale now who are fare more talented that he'll be able to call up instead now in the next 6N. It'll be worth shipping a loss against Japan for that alone, if it came to pass.

Yeah it's offering us a great opportunity. Add to that the fact that we might see a few young guys become a bit more established, allowing yet more come through off the back of that over the next year or so. We're in a good place. I'm sure we'd all love to be in a better place with more depth etc, but given where we were 18 months ago I think we're coming along nicely.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

stephen_n wrote: »

Paul Marshall, shows how little depth we had at SH even then.

I still remember the final play of that USA game. Marshall was at a ruck at halfway. Madigan was standing outside at first receiver. Jamie Hagan was standing a few metres away from Madigan, trying to stop himself suffering a cardiac arrest as a 19 stone prop does in Houston in June.

Marshall f*cks the ball at Hagan who spills it.

No wonder people were drinking heavily for the next game.

And you guys want us to start this guy over Pienaar!!!!

Buer

bilston wrote: »

And you guys want us to start this guy over Pienaar!!!!

I wouldn't want you to start Paul Marshall over awec let alone Pienaar.

Former Former

Just so long as people realise that good performances in the matches this summer does not equate to a player deserving selection against the Boks in November. Running in a few tries against sub-Pro12 level opponents does not mean a guy is going to displace a guy who has been there for years. It's a start, but it is not everything.

Interested Observer

Former Former wrote: »

Just so long as people realise that good performances in the matches this summer does not equate to a player deserving selection against the Boks in November. Running in a few tries against sub-Pro12 level opponents does not mean a guy is going to displace a guy who has been there for years. It's a start, but it is not everything.

So you're talking about the USA match really, not the tour overall.

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

And you guys want us to start this guy over Pienaar!!!!

And you still have this guy in every squad for the 7 years you've had Pienaar!!!!!