Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

wp_rathead

Ugghh, social media "Bantz" pages are the worst

thomond2006

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ugghh, social media "Bantz" pages are the worst

Manure clickbait rubbish. Delete their app, block them on social media and move on.

Erik Shin

I saw on twitter afterwards that BOD is involved with said page, is that true Anyone know?

irishbucsfan

Erik Shin wrote: »

I saw on twitter afterwards that BOD is involved with said page, is that true Anyone know?

He either owns it or used to own it, not sure at the moment.

EDIT: By owns it, I mean owns a small portion. Don't think he was ever a majority shareholder but I might be wrong.

Former Former

ClanofLams wrote: »

There's another screenshot going around showing Zebo and O'Driscoll liked the Facebook post. Dumb enough thing to do.

It's very likely that these were "tribute" profiles rather than the real thing. More clickbaiting.

irishfan9

Aki isnt irish so....

MaybeMaybe

thomond2006 wrote: »

Manure clickbait rubbish. Delete their app, block them on social media and move on.

and hit the gym?

ClanofLams

Former Former wrote: »

It's very likely that these were "tribute" profiles rather than the real thing. More clickbaiting.

No it was their legitimate profiles, the two liked it on instagram.

https://twitter.com/m_brosnan/status/925476413783920641

Former Former

ClanofLams wrote: »

No it was their legitimate profiles, the two liked it on instagram.

Ah. I don't understand Instagram but that's not great now. You'd expect lads like that to be a bit more savvy about social meeja, especially Drico with his profile and Zebo with the week that was in it.

molloyjh

I don't get the fuss. It's poking a bit of harmless fun at the whole thing. What's the big deal?

Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't get the fuss. It's poking a bit of harmless fun at the whole thing. What's the big deal?

I don't like it, I hate this whole "bantz" thing on social media, but the whole thing is kicking off because:

a) Aki is dark-skinned and there's always this spectre of RACISM! hanging over every mention of his name.
b) Ultimate Rugby is owned by BOD and so it's more of a story. This wouldn't have garnered a mention on here if it had been Rugbylad, PunditArena or one of the other mass latrines of rugby discussion and content-stealing.

People could have used better judgement but there's very little in it.

irishbucsfan

I mean I would say there's definitely an element of racism at play, even if it was not intended. "Tag a mate who thinks he's Irish" and its a picture of an islander. I don't think that joke would have worked quite as well on social media if it was Jared Payne.

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

I don't like it, I hate this whole "bantz" thing on social media, but the whole thing is kicking off because:

a) Aki is dark-skinned and there's always this spectre of RACISM! hanging over every mention of his name.
b) Ultimate Rugby is owned by BOD and so it's more of a story. This wouldn't have garnered a mention on here if it had been Rugbylad, PunditArena or one of the other mass latrines of rugby discussion and content-stealing.

People could have used better judgement but there's very little in it.

Ah that's just PC gone mad. It's not like they said "Tag a darky that thinks they're Irish" or anything like that. I don't find it amusing myself, but I don't see any great harm in it either. People are getting far too sensitive and eager to find offence where none is intended these days. If there is a spectre of racism hanging over him then that's being projected by people who are looking for issues before they even come up. And that's just BS.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I mean I would say there's definitely an element of racism at play, even if it was not intended. "Tag a mate who thinks he's Irish" and its a picture of an islander. I don't think that joke would have worked quite as well on social media if it was Jared Payne.

I use that joke all the time for my cousin who was born in England to a Scottish father and an Irish mother. The reason I saw the picture in the first place was because he was tagged in it by someone else. Does that make me racist against the English? Or the Scottish? Or mixed race whities or something!?

The worst you could say about that image is that they should have known there was going to be people out there getting outraged over it. But sure people get outraged over almost anything these days.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I use that joke all the time for my cousin who was born in England to a Scottish father and an Irish mother. The reason I saw the picture in the first place was because he was tagged in it by someone else. Does that make me racist against the English? Or the Scottish? Or mixed race whities or something!?

The worst you could say about that image is that they should have known there was going to be people out there getting outraged over it. But sure people get outraged over almost anything these days.

No, I'm not saying that everyone who tagged someone or saw the photo is racist.

I'm saying it has more impact because of Aki's heritage.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, I'm not saying that everyone who tagged someone or saw the photo is racist.

I'm saying it has more impact because of Aki's heritage.

So what you're saying is that you're a racist?

MarinersBlues

molloyjh wrote: »

I use that joke all the time for my cousin who was born in England to a Scottish father and an Irish mother. The reason I saw the picture in the first place was because he was tagged in it by someone else. Does that make me racist against the English? Or the Scottish? Or mixed race whities or something!?

The worst you could say about that image is that they should have known there was going to be people out there getting outraged over it. But sure people get outraged over almost anything these days.

Race and nationality are different things.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, I'm not saying that everyone who tagged someone or saw the photo is racist.

Wasn't saying you were.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm saying it has more impact because of Aki's heritage.

That's what I mean. I've regularly taken the piss out of my cousin in exactly the same way over the years. If that's not considered racist because he's white, but this is considered racist because Aki is not white, then surely the racism lies with the ones making the judgement not the ones making the joke?

Aki is every bit as valid a target for this kind of joke as Jared Payne is. He's the one getting the treatment because he's the one who has garnered most attention given his various statements in the past etc. In my view the joke is a function of the reaction to his call up, not his skin colour or heritage. If others want to make it a racial thing then that's on them IMO.

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Race and nationality are different things.

See above. While I'm aware of that the general point re bigotry still stands.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

That's what I mean. I've regularly taken the piss out of my cousin in exactly the same way over the years. If that's not considered racist because he's white, but this is considered racist because Aki is not white, then surely the racism lies with the ones making the judgement not the ones making the joke?

Aki is every bit as valid a target for this kind of joke as Jared Payne is. He's the one getting the treatment because he's the one who has garnered most attention given his various statements in the past etc. In my view the joke is a function of the reaction to his call up, not his skin colour or heritage. If others want to make it a racial thing then that's on them IMO.

The fact that the man in the image is more obviously of a different heritage increases the impact of this post. It's not racism on the part of people who would do it anyway, nor racism on the part of people making the judgement. I'm not calling you racist.

Aki is not "every bit" as valid a target for this kind of joke a Jared Payne is. Because Payne is a white guy. Let's not pretend this isn't a thing.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The fact that the man in the image is more obviously of a different heritage increases the impact of this post. It's not racism on the part of people who would do it anyway, nor racism on the part of people making the judgement. I'm not calling you racist.

Aki is not "every bit" as valid a target for this kind of joke a Jared Payne is. Because Payne is a white guy. Let's not pretend this isn't a thing.

For starters I don't think you're calling me a racist.

I just don't think this should be "a thing". As soon as people start to hold different standards for others because of their skin colour or heritage they're only adding to the problem. Aki is a rugby player like Payne. He shouldn't be viewed as an ethnically and racially different rugby player. And the sooner people start to look at it from that perspective the better.

thomond2006

Feckin' Greeks!

Neil3030

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah that's just PC gone mad. It's not like they said "Tag a darky that thinks they're Irish" or anything like that. I don't find it amusing myself, but I don't see any great harm in it either. People are getting far too sensitive and eager to find offence where none is intended these days. If there is a spectre of racism hanging over him then that's being projected by people who are looking for issues before they even come up. And that's just BS.

The joke didn't immediately strike you as racist, fair enough. The joke struck some people as possibly racist, also fair enough. It's neither an objective nor binary classification we're dealing with here. But highlighting something as possibly being racist doesn't make someone racist. Conservatives (not accusing you of being one) use this trick all the time. What I feel they conflate is "being concerned about racial prejudice" and "harbouring a racial prejudice". Falling into either of these camps will likely make you notice the racial element of things before anything else, but for very different reasons.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

For starters I don't think you're calling me a racist.

I just don't think this should be "a thing". As soon as people start to hold different standards for others because of their skin colour or heritage they're only adding to the problem. Aki is a rugby player like Payne. He shouldn't be viewed as an ethnically and racially different rugby player. And the sooner people start to look at it from that perspective the better.

Bundee Aki IS an ethnically different rugby player to Jared Payne, I'm sure he's very proud of that fact. People will continue to see that, and bad people will continue to dislike him for it. I hate that is the case, but there you go. The answer isn't to pretend its not the case, its to be aware of the fact that it is and be careful in how you portray him so as not to give ammunition to certain types of people.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago, I'd say. But seeing now how people use this type of stuff as a dog whistle I've come over to agreeing that we should be a lot more conscientious.

Jump_In_Jack

Perhaps this is stating the obvious, but it's the Irish Rugby team, not the Irish-born Rugby team.
It's nonsense to give Aki hassle for playing for our rugby team, he has played by the rules and declared himself for Ireland.
Almost every other international rugby team in the world has used a foreign born player at some point.
I'm just glad he's a good player and will add to the mix of talent available to the team I support.

MarinersBlues

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Perhaps this is stating the obvious, but it's the Irish Rugby team, not the Irish-born Rugby team.
It's nonsense to give Aki hassle for playing for our rugby team, he has played by the rules and declared himself for Ireland.
Almost every other international rugby team in the world has used a foreign born player at some point.
I'm just glad he's a good player and will add to the mix of talent available to the team I support.

I think the main issue is for people who don't know what the rules are, or what other countries are doing.

Previously when they tune in for the Ireland England game in the six nations they saw 23 white lads with Irish and or British sounding names and rolled with it. Payne, Stander, White etc would slip through undetected.

When you got, for example, Zebo and Adeoloukun lining out, there would be a 30 second conversation where the casual observer would be assured that the man grew up in Ireland, played hurling growing up, and knew someone's cousin. Everyone relaxes and moves on.

Bundee Aki sticks out on the team sheet, and on the pitch, like Rodney Ah You did. He doesn't have an Irish mother and we don't have a far off connection to his cousin. That's when world rugby's bizarre rules become highlighted for the casual fan and all sorts off half baked opinions start getting thrown about.

For the most part, I don't think it's actually based in racism, but the racists do get a free run at it. It is lack of understanding of the rules of rugby and how they slip past people.
When Aki flattens Farrell/Forde in March the casual fan will be fine about it.

To make them feel better I'll tell the lad beside me that I met Bundee's brother and cousin last week, and that they are enjoying Ireland/Europe immensely.

Interested Observer

I could be wrong as I'm not actually compiling every piece of news or online comment but the sense I get is there's a lot more focus on Aki playing for Ireland than there was for Payne or Stander, and that focus is mostly in a negative tone. And it makes me wonder why that is exactly.

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

I could be wrong as I'm not actually compiling every piece of news or online comment but the sense I get is there's a lot more focus on Aki playing for Ireland than there was for Payne or Stander, and that focus is mostly in a negative tone. And it makes me wonder why that is exactly.

Bad timing with Zebo is part of it IMO.

Unfortunately for the IRFU they're dropping Zebo and trying to peddle their "protecting Irish rugby" line while picking yet another project player.

Neil3030

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I think the main issue is for people who don't know what the rules are, or what other countries are doing.

...

To make them feel better I'll tell the lad beside me that I met Bundee's brother and cousin last week, and that they are enjoying Ireland/Europe immensely.

Is that true? Very happy to hear, if so!

molloyjh

Neil3030 wrote: »

The joke didn't immediately strike you as racist, fair enough. The joke struck some people as possibly racist, also fair enough. It's neither an objective nor binary classification we're dealing with here. But highlighting something as possibly being racist doesn't make someone racist. Conservatives (not accusing you of being one) use this trick all the time. What I feel they conflate is "being concerned about racial prejudice" and "harbouring a racial prejudice". Falling into either of these camps will likely make you notice the racial element of things before anything else, but for very different reasons.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Bundee Aki IS an ethnically different rugby player to Jared Payne, I'm sure he's very proud of that fact. People will continue to see that, and bad people will continue to dislike him for it. I hate that is the case, but there you go. The answer isn't to pretend its not the case, its to be aware of the fact that it is and be careful in how you portray him so as not to give ammunition to certain types of people.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago, I'd say. But seeing now how people use this type of stuff as a dog whistle I've come over to agreeing that we should be a lot more conscientious.

I can probably address both of these with the same post.

While I agree anyone communicating a message of any kind needs to be conscious and very much aware of how that message might be received, there is also a responsibility on the people who view/read/hear the message to be conscious and aware of how the message was intended.

It's one thing that has always bugged me about modern communication generally. It seems these days the entire responsibility is being placed with the person delivering the message. But that's a wholly one sided and unfair approach. We should all be doing more to try and ensure we are understanding the intent behind the message. Communication is a two way thing.

If the intent is clearly or very probably racist (or unacceptable in any way) then let's address it. But there are varying degrees of probability that something is unacceptable and reactions should be in line with said level of probability, i.e. proportionate to the the probability of wrong doing. Sadly these days the default setting is outrage for far too many people if there's even the slightest possibility that there's anything untoward going on. And that outrage feeds on itself online until all form of reason or proportionality is out the window.

As I said, the worst that can really be said about this photo was that it wasn't thought through enough. It isn't inherently racist. Nor are the people who saw it as an innocent joke and liked it. But is that what the Internet at large is saying? Like the Australian Minister who has been getting it in the neck for a poorly worded statement this week, the intent wasn't to be racist but that doesn't stop people losing their minds over it.

AdamD

I've seen numerous articles and huge amounts of comments giving out about people not wanting Aki to play for Ireland. I'm yet to see people giving out about Aki being chosen, am I missing this completely. Seems like people going on and on about a perceived issue which isn't all that prevalent.