Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

In reality the cut out pass was the error. It should have gone through the hands to Rob who should have gone on the outside of Bowe to fix him and cut across Piutaus line before giving to Dave for the simple finish in the corner.

But like we were taking about last week with Zebo and Earls we are back to that micro-analysing a split second decision.

Or, given it's a penalty advantage, a kick through for Dave, who is flat, to run onto. But none of them are really an incorrect decision.

Former Former

It wasn't a penalty advantage.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

It wasn't a penalty advantage.

Ah, well there you go.

prawnsambo

molloyjh wrote: »

In reality the cut out pass was the error. It should have gone through the hands to Rob who should have gone on the outside of Bowe to fix him and cut across Piutaus line before giving to Dave for the simple finish in the corner.

But like we were taking about last week with Zebo and Earls we are back to that micro-analysing a split second decision.

Yeah, three on two, it needs to go through the hands to make that advantage count.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why do people lose all common sense when these two lads are being discussed, its madness.

It's more sad than mad

phog

Former Former wrote: »

It wasn't a penalty advantage.

He did the same thing twice so

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

It wasn't a penalty advantage.

Actually, yiz all have me doubting myself now. Maybe it was advantage - was this play followed up by JGP's slightly mental cross-kick? I'm not sure it matters.

The only thing that matters in the context of the Ireland thread is that he took the lower-risk, higher-percentage play. That's what Joe wants to see.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

Actually, yiz all have me doubting myself now. Maybe it was advantage - was this play followed up by JGP's slightly mental cross-kick? I'm not sure it matters.

The only thing that matters in the context of the Ireland thread is that he took the lower-risk, higher-percentage play. That's what Joe wants to see.

The mental cross field kick wasn't during an advantage (which made it all the more mental).

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The mental cross field kick wasn't during an advantage (which made it all the more mental).

Haven't watched the game back but apparently there were no other options open to JGP at the time (according to someone on LF who did watch it back). We hadn't realigned properly or something, so he wasn't left much choice.

I can't believe we're still talking about the DK thing.....

LostArt

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't believe we're still talking about the DK thing.....

This place will be delightful when he's in the squad for SA.

errlloyd

That mental cross kick was a good decision but poor execution for me. Adam Byrne had been very good in the air this season. If the kick had landed where JGP aimed it (ie, in goal), Byrne would have been running on to it and Stockdale would have been stationary. As it was Stockdale was running on to it, beat Byrne in the air.

EDIT: Sorry Ireland thread. Although it was delightful to see the match up between Byrne and Stockdale all night. Stockdale is better, but I think these two both have a future somewhere.

Former Former

LostArt wrote: »

This place will be delightful when he's in the squad for SA.

Just to brace people for it, I'd say that it's an 80% probability that he'll be in the 23, 50-50 as to whether he starts.

It's going to get ugly.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

Just to brace people for it, I'd say that it's an 80% probability that he'll be in the 23, 50-50 as to whether he starts.

It's going to get ugly.

So when the traditional Joe curveball comes, it'll be especially curvy.

Neil3030

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't believe we're still talking about the DK thing.....

Are any contenders emerging to take up the mantle of National Lightning Rod, when the Kearneys and Heaslip are retired? I know Toner had some heat for a while, but he managed to avoid the transition to full hate figure. Sexton also foolishly became so good that he was grudgingly accepted by the mob. Plus they are all around the same age anyway. We badly need some of the young lads to put their hands up - I'm thinking maybe Carbery or Conan?

Jump_In_Jack

I think Dave Kearney is a fine player, he has shown that he can inject pace into movements with Ireland before, and he's been good under high balls, and I think he has done pretty much whatever the Irish coaches have demanded of him.
However, that clip showed a straight run to the line, he should have taken the direct route.
Having that out of the way, it's a bit overkill the way some Leinster fans are coming out to defend him needlessly by heaping a myriad of counter-arguments on to something that was only one moment in a match. Would never hold a player accountable to one moment in a game, so that's unnecessary.
Call a spade a spade, one bad decision (no matter what the few Leinster fans on here are trying to deny ad nauseam) shouldn't be getting this much debate.
IMO if Dave Kearney can reproduce his past form, I'm thinking back to the lead-up the the last World Cup, then I would have him oon the bench as 23.
Stockdale at 11 and Earls at 14 are deserving of their positions due to their form over the past few months.
Rob Kearney deserves a chance to come back into the team. He proved a lot of his critics wrong when he came back for the New Zealand win last season. If he can reproduce that level he should slot back in.
If he can't then Carbery would be my alternate choice, and Conway after that.

Jump_In_Jack

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

it's a bit overkill the way some Leinster fans are coming out to defend him

I'd say you and George Hook would be good mates!

People are defending him because despite you're opinion he had no clear run at the line. This became a topic of discussion because of a tweet of the incident and it's subsequent use as a stick to beat the player.

This wouldn't be a discussion at all but for those tweets, don't know why you would blame Leinster fans (when a fair few non Leinster fans are beating the same drum).

Jump_In_Jack

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say you and George Hook would be good mates!

People are defending him because despite you're opinion he had no clear run at the line. This became a topic of discussion because of a tweet of the incident and it's subsequent use as a stick to beat the player.

This wouldn't be a discussion at all but for those tweets, don't know why you would blame Leinster fans (when a fair few non Leinster fans are beating the same drum).

I'd say you'd be great mates with Donald Trump.
He misses the point entirely a lot too.

connachta

Kieran Keane, about Bundee :
“Possibly see him at 12 rather than 13. From my perspective he probably suits that better but we play him at 13 for other reasons.”

Neil3030

connachta wrote: »

Kieran Keane, about Bundee :
“Possibly see him at 12 rather than 13. From my perspective he probably suits that better but we play him at 13 for other reasons.”

Because he's still their best option at 13?

Jump_In_Jack

Neil3030 wrote: »

Because he's still their best option at 13?

More likely a directive from the IRFU so that he will be in the mode of a 13 come the AIs.
Assuming McCloskey and Henshaw are seen as better options at 12, and trying to fit Aki in as an option at 13 as he may be the next best centre available.

The Rape of Lucretia

Neil3030 wrote: »

Are any contenders emerging to take up the mantle of National Lightning Rod?

Well surely the best way to get all our best backs on the pitch is to start Henshaw 12, Earlsie 13, and Dave at 14 ?
Ticks all the boxes.

connachta

Yes it's iconoclast but if you think Sexton needs a proper back-up 10, and now Zebo is off/R.Keaney old, you can dream for :
Aki 12
Ringrose 13
Henshaw 15
Carbery 22
Dream team

Neil3030

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

More likely a directive from the IRFU so that he will be in the mode of a 13 come the AIs.
Assuming McCloskey and Henshaw are seen as better options at 12, and trying to fit Aki in as an option at 13 as he may be the next best centre available.

Why is it more likely? Schmidt has regularly used guys in positions different to what they play in their province. Meanwhile Bundee is probably Connacht's best option at 13, and they have good alternatives at 12.

Sephiral

I did not see the game, any clip of the incident or even so much as glance at any of the posted screenshots, but I feel like I have a strong opinion on whether DK should have pelted it on the outside or cut in. I just son't know what that opinion is.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Are any contenders emerging to take up the mantle of National Lightning Rod, when the Kearneys and Heaslip are retired? I know Toner had some heat for a while, but he managed to avoid the transition to full hate figure. Sexton also foolishly became so good that he was grudgingly accepted by the mob. Plus they are all around the same age anyway. We badly need some of the young lads to put their hands up - I'm thinking maybe Carbery or Conan?

It's actually easy to work out. It'll be whoever is playing the same position as a provincial contender.

So for example if Conor Murray goes to France, suddenly Connacht fans will despise John Cooney, Leinster fans will despise Kieran Marmion and Ulster fans will despise Luke McGrath. I'd say we may be in for our first three-way hatefest.

Interested Observer

Neil3030 wrote: »

Sexton also foolishly became so good that he was grudgingly accepted by the mob.

That's not actually what happened at all. ROG retired and despite Sexton being vastly better than him for years, it really left the loons with nothing to argue about.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's actually easy to work out. It'll be whoever is playing the same position as a provincial contender.

So for example if Conor Murray goes to France, suddenly Connacht fans will despise John Cooney, Leinster fans will despise Kieran Marmion and Ulster fans will despise Luke McGrath. I'd say we may be in for our first three-way hatefest.

Ah yes, the old 'form' player phenomenon.

Not to crush your hopes of a three-way (possibly not the first time you've heard that), but I suspect Murray would still get picked even if he went abroad.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah yes, the old 'form' player phenomenon.

Not to crush your hopes of a three-way (possibly not the first time you've heard that), but I suspect Murray would still get picked even if he went abroad.

What you mean you'd pick Murray over ${MyPlayer} even though he's overseas?! This is typical favouritism, Munster Rejuvenation Project at its worst!!!

See, I just turned it into a 4-way.

errlloyd

You forget the inevitable one off class match Duncan Williams would have against the Dragons in October (only showed on S4c) which would have a quarter of Ireland's fans scrambling for his inclusion.

Interested Observer

errlloyd wrote: »

You forget the inevitable one off class match Duncan Williams would have against the Dragons in October (only showed on S4c) which would have a quarter of Ireland's fans scrambling for his inclusion.

#formscrumhalf