DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

skyblue46

Belated report on Week 7.

Mixed week for me mainly because I'm struggling with paces. I seem to have slowed my recovery runs to where I want them to be but not running easy runs as slow as I'd like. This week I tried my runs without pace displayed on screen and to try run by feel but was still faster than I wanted to be. Maybe I'm becoming obsessed with the slow running agenda!! ��

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: Easy Run 7.15k @ 5.42

Wednesday: 1/5/1 PMP @ 5.39 (5.18 for the pace section)

Thursday: Easy Run 6.85k @ 5.36

Friday: Recovery 5k @ 6.13

Saturday: 23.5k @ 5.55 LSR

Sunday: Recovery 8.4k @ 6.40

Weekly total: 62.6km/ 38.9 miles

My PMP is 5.39/km so I need to settle down a bit! Going out for an easy run soon and I'm going to try staying in the easy heart rate zone and see what the resulting pace is if I stay at about 65% HRR. God I do complicate things!!!!

Went to watch some of the half on Sunday and there was a great atmosphere. I only managed to spot one of the Strava group and he was tucked in nicely with the 1:45 group. I think he ended up ducking under that time so congrats to him. My beloved did a 1:47.xx and she has really thrown down the gauntlet to me. Not bad for 53! I think I'll only have a rear view from now on!!

Wubble Wubble

skyblue46 wrote: »

Belated report on Week 7.

Mixed week for me mainly because I'm struggling with paces. I seem to have slowed my recovery runs to where I want them to be but not running easy runs as slow as I'd like. This week I tried my runs without pace displayed on screen and to try run by feel but was still faster than I wanted to be. Maybe I'm becoming obsessed with the slow running agenda!! ��

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: Easy Run 7.15k @ 5.42

Wednesday: 1/5/1 PMP @ 5.39 (5.18 for the pace section)

Thursday: Easy Run 6.85k @ 5.36

Friday: Recovery 5k @ 6.13

Saturday: 23.5k @ 5.55 LSR

Sunday: Recovery 8.4k @ 6.40

Weekly total: 62.6km/ 38.9 miles

My PMP is 5.39/km so I need to settle down a bit! Going out for an easy run soon and I'm going to try staying in the easy heart rate zone and see what the resulting pace is if I stay at about 65% HRR. God I do complicate things!!!!

Went to watch some of the half on Sunday and there was a great atmosphere. I only managed to spot one of the Strava group and he was tucked in nicely with the 1:45 group. I think he ended up ducking under that time so congrats to him. My beloved did a 1:47.xx and she has really thrown down the gauntlet to me. Not bad for 53! I think I'll only have a rear view from now on!!

Good work there. One or two of the Strava lads were very near me, and in fact I think one was almost alongside me at the finish? I don't know if your beloved reads this, but she might not thank you for putting her age out there :pac:

skyblue46

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Good work there. One or two of the Strava lads were very near me, and in fact I think one was almost alongside me at the finish? I don't know if your beloved reads this, but she might not thank you for putting her age out there :pac:

Time to edit perhaps!!

heebusjeebus

Week 7 report.
The step back week came at the right time for me. Any niggles I had in my knee have not returned. Looking forward to hitting the 16 miler again this weekend.

Monday: Rest

Tuesday: (Not very) Easy Run 8k @ 5:04/km

Wednesday: 1/5/1 (11.2km) PMP @ 4:57/km

Thursday: Easy Run 6.4k @ 5:05/km

Friday: Rest

Saturday: Golfing for the day

Sunday: 22.7k @ 5.30 LSR

Week 7 Total: 48.5km

AuldManKing

Just to add a comment or 2 about racing too much coming up to the Marathon.

We have 10 weeks left - with a 2-3 week taper, that means 7-8 weeks hard work.

Typically when you race, you take it easy for a couple of days before the race and then you recover for a couple of days after the race.
Over 2 races, this is 7-8 days - this is a lot of time eating into your typical training schedule.

However, races, especially longer races like HM/10m have great benefits;

(1) Help firm up a 'race day' routine.
(2) Helps practice taking water/ gels on while running.
(3) Helps with race day jitters.
(4) If done as a session, can have a great additional stimulus to a long run.
(5) Builds confidence.

There are a number of ways to approach multiple races.
You can race them all.
You can race 1 and do the other as a session - e.g. Do a few miles before hand then;
do the race at PMP or
do the race at PMP +15 seconds or
do the race as a 2x5m@PMP with a mile or 2 easy in the middle.

All the above builds extra adaptations that make Marathon Pace feel easier.

Additionally, feel free to just run the race at an easy pace with a few miles added at the end or the start.

If you do race multiple times, be mindful of the impact it has on your training schedule.

leesider77

skyblue46 wrote: »

Time to edit perhaps!!

If I was 53 and running a 1:45 HM, I would be shouting my age from the rooftops ;-)

clickerquicklic

I'm just looking again at this Asics plan and the runners world plan. A 22 mile long run is recommended in both plans. In the Asics plan they have it at 3 hours 18minutes , for me this seems like your basically running a marathon in training.
I'm thinking of dropping them 22 mile runs and replacing them with another 20 mile run, a 20 mile should take me about 2hours 50mins. Is there any added benefit of them extra 2 miles ?

Wubble Wubble

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I'm just looking again at this Asics plan and the runners world plan. A 22 mile long run is recommended in both plans. In the Asics plan they have it at 3 hours 18minutes , for me this seems like your basically running a marathon in training.
I'm thinking of dropping them 22 mile runs and replacing them with another 20 mile run, a 20 mile should take me about 2hours 50mins. Is there any added benefit of them extra 2 miles ?

Bit of discussion on the subject here

FWIW I haven't tried it before, and I'm not sure if I personally would gain anything by going the extra two. Like you say, the Asics plan brings this to 3:18, four weeks out. 20 miles in 2:50 would mean averaging 8:30 pace. Bit quick if you're targeting 3:30?

skyblue46

leesider77 wrote: »

If I was 53 and running a 1:45 HM, I would be shouting my age from the rooftops ;-)

Ah she's proud of herself and can shout out with the best!

clickerquicklic

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Bit of discussion on the subject here

FWIW I haven't tried it before, and I'm not sure if I personally would gain anything by going the extra two. Like you say, the Asics plan brings this to 3:18, four weeks out. 20 miles in 2:50 would mean averaging 8:30 pace. Bit quick if you're targeting 3:30?

Cheers yeah think i'll blank the 22 mile run in favour of another 20 mile run or maybe a 16-18 mile run with second half at PMP.

All of my long runs have been at 8.30 or faster pace, when I do my long runs I just go out the door and ignore the watch, I tend to settle into a rhythm and a pace that I feel I could run forever at. More often than not this ends up around 8.30 mile pace. I find I don't ever have to consciously speed up or slow down at this pace its natural.

I could probably do with slowing down a bit , but its seems a big ask to do your long runs say 20 miles @ 9min miles then expect to be able to pull out 26 miles at 8 min miles on race day?

I'm not the expert here though so welcome your insight , is 30 seconds a mile slower than PMP not enough ? I had it in my head that it should be 30-60 seconds a mile slower than PMP for LSR's?

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Cheers yeah think i'll blank the 22 mile run in favour of another 20 mile run or maybe a 16-18 mile run with second half at PMP.

All of my long runs have been at 8.30 or faster pace, when I do my long runs I just go out the door and ignore the watch, I tend to settle into a rhythm and a pace that I feel I could run forever at. More often than not this ends up around 8.30 mile pace. I find I don't ever have to consciously speed up or slow down at this pace its natural.

I could probably do with slowing down a bit , but its seems a big ask to do your long runs say 20 miles @ 9min miles then expect to be able to pull out 26 miles at 8 min miles on race day?

I'm not the expert here though so welcome your insight , is 30 seconds a mile slower than PMP not enough ? I had it in my head that it should be 30-60 seconds a mile slower than PMP for LSR's?

https://runnersconnect.net/wrong-long-run-pace/

This is an interesting piece, particularly the LSR pace of a 5.45 per mile marathon champion.

peterc14

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Cheers yeah think i'll blank the 22 mile run in favour of another 20 mile run or maybe a 16-18 mile run with second half at PMP.

All of my long runs have been at 8.30 or faster pace,

Are you following the Asics sub 3.30 plan? I am doing my long runs 8.50-9.00...although sometimes I do wonder then how are you supposed to up it to 8.00 minute miles...trust the plan I suppose?

Baby75

leesider77 wrote: »

If I was 53 and running a 1:45 HM, I would be shouting my age from the rooftops ;-)

I agree I would be delighted with that

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ah she's proud of herself and can shout out with the best!

So she should well done to her

Damo 2k9

Not sure how many runs ill be able to get in midweek this week. I have exams and work, and im still carrying a sore knee so I suppose the rest will do it good. Definitely get out for my LSR on saturday tho.

clickerquicklic

peterc14 wrote: »

Are you following the Asics sub 3.30 plan? I am doing my long runs 8.50-9.00...although sometimes I do wonder then how are you supposed to up it to 8.00 minute miles...trust the plan I suppose?

I've been chopping and changing plans , I tend to overthink things!. Originally I was thinking with McMillan predicting a 3.0* time for me that 3.15 be a decent plan to follow. So I start taking the key sessions out of the runners world plan. The more I speak with people and read race reports here its clearer to me that the improvements are not linear and that a 1.30-1.35 half marathon seems to equate to closer to 3.30 time than 3.15.

Anyway the mileage is getting away from me a bit in the runners world , should be hitting 50 a week but i'm struggling to get above 35, asics plan looks lighter on mileage so be more manageable.

Omeceron

Going for a sports massage tomorrow evening. Is it recommended to rest after it or can I do the PMP session?

skyblue46

Omeceron wrote: »

Going for a sports massage tomorrow evening. Is it recommended to rest after it or can I do the PMP session?

I think an easy run would be ok but when I get one I'm advised not to run too hard especially if a few knots needed some deep tissue massage.

skyblue46

Yevon wrote: »

Went for an 8k tonight. Had to stop at 5k with shin splints. Guess I'm upping the mileage too fast. Worrying though, the next few weeks are hectic.

Try doing some of your running on grass. It's way easier on the legs. Tarmac isn't as bad as concrete if they are your only options.

ariana`

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Not quite. By all means run both if you wish However, I would only race one of them, and treat the other as a session. FD10 you'll have bigger numbers, and hence you'll be running with people all the way around (and you've paid your money) Plus it's further away (9 weeks) from DCM. Even so, the half has its pros as well. It probably gives a better reflection of how your marathon training is going, and it's not too close to the big day (7 weeks). Let us know what you decide!

Thanks. I think i will treat the 10 miler as a session as it's my 1st 10miler and as such I'm guaranteed a PB... I've ran a conservative half before so I'd really like to race that one to see what I can do. Thanks.

For the 10miler could I do say 7m @ PMP + 3m @ PMP - 15 seconds? Or something along those lines? Just to keep it interesting like

sillymoo

quickbeam wrote: »

... and received!!! Can't wait to try it out on the next long run.

Probably a really stupid question, but what are the dangly bits for?

Probably for your race number to attach to? Like you see in triathlons

Have you tried the belt yet? What do you thinking it? Looking for a new belt myself and curious as to what you though of it

skyblue46

Up to 114 on Strava now....and still the same old reliables posting here. I think the post marathon pint in McGrattans will be a quiet affair!!

quickbeam

sillymoo wrote: »

Probably for your race number to attach to? Like you see in triathlons

Have you tried the belt yet? What do you thinking it? Looking for a new belt myself and curious as to what you though of it

Yeah, I Googled it and got a similar answer, but it doesn't really make sense to me as the race number would then be hanging very low, and even banging off your thighs. Plus, I wear the belt, under my t-shirt, so a race number wouldn't be much use under there too.

Yes, I wore the belt for the first time for my LSR this week. When it first arrived I tried it on and it felt VERY uncomfortable, with the bottles digging in to my ribs. So I was a bit wary about how it'd actually work on the run. I put it on that morning and it seemed fine, and actually it was perfectly comfortable while out running, so I don't know what way I was wearing it when I first tried it on to make it so uncomfortable.

2 x 270ml seems a decent amount to be carrying - not so much that you'd notice the weight, but enough to be able to hydrate. It wasn't hugely easy to access the water, undoing the elastic around the top, and then easing the bottles out of their pockets, and then putting it back and redoing the elastic. But I guess it's a fine line between accessibility and stability (ie, the bottles not falling out mid-run), and I guess it did its job well enough.

The front pocket fit my phone and my fuel, but as there was just the one pocket I was a bit wary of putting my keys in there too in case they fell out while accessing the fuel and me never notice. I prefer my existing belt (which holds no bottles) as it has two pockets and there's no danger of that happening as you can keep the key and the fuel separate. But again, I just made other arrangements for the key as water was more important for the long run. For shorter runs, where i won't need water I'll just use my old belt.

I don't have a huge amount of experience with differnet types of belts, so can't really compare this one to others. But overall, I think it was definitely worth the money and will be happy to continue using it for my long runs.

ariana`

quickbeam wrote: »

Yeah, I Googled it and got a similar answer, but it doesn't really make sense to me as the race number would then be hanging very low, and even banging off your thighs. Plus, I wear the belt, under my t-shirt, so a race number wouldn't be much use under there too.

Yes, I wore the belt for the first time for my LSR this week. When it first arrived I tried it on and it felt VERY uncomfortable, with the bottles digging in to my ribs. So I was a bit wary about how it'd actually work on the run. I put it on that morning and it seemed fine, and actually it was perfectly comfortable while out running, so I don't know what way I was wearing it when I first tried it on to make it so uncomfortable.

2 x 270ml seems a decent amount to be carrying - not so much that you'd notice the weight, but enough to be able to hydrate. It wasn't hugely easy to access the water, undoing the elastic around the top, and then easing the bottles out of their pockets, and then putting it back and redoing the elastic. But I guess it's a fine line between accessibility and stability (ie, the bottles not falling out mid-run), and I guess it did its job well enough.

The front pocket fit my phone and my fuel, but as there was just the one pocket I was a bit wary of putting my keys in there too in case they fell out while accessing the fuel and me never notice. I prefer my existing belt (which holds no bottles) as it has two pockets and there's no danger of that happening as you can keep the key and the fuel separate. But again, I just made other arrangements for the key as water was more important for the long run. For shorter runs, where i won't need water I'll just use my old belt.

I don't have a huge amount of experience with differnet types of belts, so can't really compare this one to others. But overall, I think it was definitely worth the money and will be happy to continue using it for my long runs.

Great review. I agree. It's prob not the perfect hydration belt but for the price point it does the job.

I found it strange at first as I had to adjust my arm position ever so slightly but you get used to it very quickly. And like quickbeam I only use it for long runs as I don't need water on anything under 12km so far anyhow.

Quickbeam I don't loosen anything to get the bottles out. I just ease them out? Did you try putting gels in the 2 little elastic bits at the side? It would free up the main pocket for your key.

beakerjoe

Got my race numbers today for the Frank Duffy and Half Marathon. Cant wait for next sat.

leesider77

Quickbeam/Ariana - which belt was it? Will it hold an iPhone plus? Is the pocket waterproof?

Wubble Wubble

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks. I think i will treat the 10 miler as a session as it's my 1st 10miler and as such I'm guaranteed a PB... I've ran a conservative half before so I'd really like to race that one to see what I can do. Thanks.

For the 10miler could I do say 7m @ PMP + 3m @ PMP - 15 seconds? Or something along those lines? Just to keep it interesting like

Sure, absolutely! Sounds like a good one to try

Damo 2k9

When I signed up for the marathon I picked the last wave as I never knew what I'd be able for. After hassling them i finally changed waves to the 4-4:19 wave with hopes of sticking with the 4 hour pacers for the whole thing (hopefully)

beakerjoe

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

When I signed up for the marathon I picked the last wave as I never knew what I'd be able for. After hassling them i finally changed waves to the 4-4:19 wave with hopes of sticking with the 4 hour pacers for the whole thing (hopefully)

I entered on the last wave in 2012, but on the day felt I was able for more so i just wondered up to the 3:15 wave before it began. Finished in 3:42 so I was a little over ambitious.

Damo 2k9

beakerjoe wrote: »

I entered on the last wave in 2012, but on the day felt I was able for more so i just wondered up to the 3:15 wave before it began. Finished in 3:42 so I was a little over ambitious.

I was gonna do that on the day, just go up to the wave I wanted to start in but thought there'd be a bit of bother getting there. I'm gonna aim for 4 now and if i get any faster by the day I'll move up a couple pacers.

ariana`

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

When I signed up for the marathon I picked the last wave as I never knew what I'd be able for. After hassling them i finally changed waves to the 4-4:19 wave with hopes of sticking with the 4 hour pacers for the whole thing (hopefully)

I'm in that wave as well but I think I'll be at the tail end of it....I'll most likely either go with the 4:15 pacer or pace myself for sub 4:30.