Advertisement
We've partnered up with Nixers.com to offer a space where you can talk directly to Peter from Nixers.com and get an exclusive Boards.ie discount code for a free job listing. If you are recruiting or know anyone else who is please check out the forum here.
If you have a new account but can't post, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help to verify your email address. Thanks :)

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

1205206207209211

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    You think US technological superiority is isolated to Bombs, rules and drones? This is pretty misinformed tbh. They are have better everything, comms, systems, structure, vehicles, facilities etc.

    Indeed thy do, but what good is state-of-the-art comms and wonders of technology against a bunch of people who hardly if ever use a phone, and are smart enough to ditch it after using it only once. Or rely on memorised messages sent by a human courier with a cutout? What good is your Reaper drone flying over the Rockies looking for a guerrilla group and it accidentally targets a couple of families out camping for the weekend? Is every chat between two moms who don't agree with their kids school policies of Critical Race,or not injecting them against COVID going to be subject to intense ELINT scrutiny,as they are now considered "right Wing terrorists"?https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/are-parents-being-tagged-domestic-terrorists-the-fbi-justice

    As I said,the military hardware is negated if they had to use it on US soil itself. Even our lot hardly ever used the phone in NI to discuss anything of import,or even kept anything on paper all this technology is vulnerable too,as Russia is finding out in Ukraine were some "missile hunters" are knocking out 5million euro Russian missiles with a E20 worth of ammo from a 50 cal rifle,by shooting a hole in its side damaging the propulsion or electronics.Missiles are very thin-skinned and delicate when on the launcher and very vulnerable. Point is over reliance on tech is not a sure-fire win either and this is a common US mistake.


    I agree with all of that. But its doesn't counter anything I said. The US is extremely well armed, many are overweight gits with AR15 and can barely more, but many are highly trained current or former military, police etc. If they were to unite agaisnt a single power, say a foreign invasion as your example. They would absolutely be a modern viet cong. If they all simultaneously rebelled it would be an uncontrollable force. But that is an incredibly difficult task to coordinate and pull off. Which is what I said it has zero chance of happening.

    I doubt anyone is overweight in the US armed forces mandatory fitness requirements every 6 months see to that.You are just making my point and still don't know what leaderless resistance in guerrilla warfare is?You keep thinking this has to be or will be organised,controlled and commanded by some central authority? That doesn't happen in a modern guerrilla war.


     completely see your point, but as I pointed out it does both ways. The above overs and order to cease arms. Which I didn't actually mention btw. We were speaking of a rebellion, and if there was a rebellion of the scale you are talking about, ie millions of people, then the US would absolutely declare a state of emergency and a civil war. So the whole country is caught between the various oaths they have kept. As soon as somebody is in open war with the United States, their allegiance isn't worth piss. Some of the US armed forces would side with the side that thinks creating a militia is the highest right. The other side would put allegiance to the US higher. It would split. We have literally seen this in our own country with the last 100 years.

    There is only ONE oath if you are LE,military or a US citizen.How it is interpreted is up to you.

    Your point being, as this is stating the obvious?


    I took that line of the constitution to refer to the lines of civilian support during way.

    Thats the Oath of Allegiance, not the constitution

    People aiding the country by working in factories making weapons, clothes, rations, etc etc. This as a huge of part of warfare in 1700-1960s. Sell so now, but still applies to a degree. I don't follow the jump to the Posse Comitatus act from there.

    It means both.

    The reason I mentioned Posse Comitatus in this is that militarisation of federal forces and federalisation of police forces is eroding this part of the oath by claiming that you as a soldier or officer must follow a lawful direction of a Federal[civilian] agent in important work. Posse Comitatus specifically prohibits US armed forces personnel from being used in a law enforcement role, irrespective of branch and that also includes using military equipment. Does this then leave the question open is the National Gaurd, as it has been used and is used in combat roles, globally in American conflicts, actually under military command or state command? Hence the conflict of interest? this is still the question in Waco, was it legal for the guard to allow the use of their equipment?

    That's precisely my point. If a civil war did happen, there would be such a power grab, that they would go at each other just as quickly. Using your LA Riots example. Citizens were attacking and killing citizens. People go feral pretty quickly given the opportunity. A bit of snow and we raid the bread and toilet roll.

    And the 1st thing to go would be the power in America's horribly vulnerable power grid. So imagine cities like DC, NYC,LA without power for months? And you as the gun-banning president are going to have to figure out how to keep law and order and the food supplied and the toilets flushing in those chaotic hell holes.Id hate to be the main door kicker of the SWAT team in those house to house gun grabs under those circumstances!Most of your forces will be tied up just in policing the cities and internment camps than chasing the Wolverines[another movie mention for ya!] around the Rockies or going after the Bayou French down in Lousianna.[Southern Comfort]

    They wouldn't think twice about shooting a terrorist "gun nut". Nor should they. But shooting civilians who haven't broken any laws or harmed anyone is a different story.

    Vicky Weaver holding a 6-month baby,and her son Sammy Weaver, after masked and armed men prowling about the property and then shot his dog sure fit that description?


    Not sure who you refer to in as the ATF thug. Waco was definitely botched. The FBI was heavy handed, and covered t up. Some innocent people were killed. Mainly naïve followers who were brainwashed the religious cult and knew no different.

    Heavy-handed is an understatement! Using a tear gas dispensing armoured combat engineer vehicle to pump gas into a building,with the wind blowing against the tanks back,which meant the gas was having no effect as it was blowing straight out again,and using it as a battering ram on a wooden church where they knew there were flammable materials and lanterns in use...Yeah you could say that!

    David Chipman was Bidens nomination for director of the ATF, it is questionable whether he did an unbiased job of investigating the Waco affair and was a horrible choice for director of the ATF https://www.nssf.org/articles/heres-why-david-chipman-is-a-terrible-choice-for-atf-director/

    But let's be really clear that David Koresh was a serial child rapist, who broke the law, and initiated the siege by refuse a lawful search warrant, a warrant that would have uncovered his illegal stockpile of arms. I think anyone holding up David Koresh as a victim of tyranny might need to think about it.

    Each and every one of those points has been proven FALSE a long time ago. Even if they were true at the time BATF is not child protection services or the Drug Enforcement Agency,as the other excuse was they had a meth lab on the premises.Those two organisations could have acted on those accusations instead if it had been true. BATF even admitted that this was over reach in serving a warrant,that could have been executed with the Sheriff of Waco who was on good terms with Koresh, and even if they felt there was the chance of hostility, could have lifted Koresh almost anytime he was in Waco ,or out on a regular morning jog around the compound.

    Janet Reno was fed a line about child abuse and it was used as a cover-up for the botched raid by BATF. BATF needed to prove their worth after their other balls up at Ruby Ridge a year before and were looking at severe congressional fund cutting and investigation as their worth as a tax drain on the US taxpayer.

    Waco and the Branch Davidians ticked all the boxes for a good publicity raid. Why else would they have brought along live TV news crews to cover a raid? They also had a federal firearms license to deal in firearms too.Nor were any fully automatic weapons ever found either in the ruins, as you could be sure the Feds would have trumpeted that fact all over MSM... I was living in CA at the time this seige happened,and they were discussing every last thing during and post the siege on MSM.Once the fact came out that the "arsenal of fully auto weapons and grenades" came out as false that quietly went away.

    Suggest a watch of Waco Rules of engagement,and Waco new revelations,as a good grounder of what did and did not happen there in Americas greatest church burning.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    3% trigger pullers,and 7% sympathisers and resources providers...That's about the same in any modern army ratio of combat troops to admin and logistics. So 10% of 329 million[2020 census +/- 500k] is 329000 willing to provide logistics 3% is 98700 dedicated or willing trigger pullers, bomb layers,and saboteurs loose in a country the size of the US alone. Scary to any US govt .

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    I see the EX TD Mr "Ill smoke wherever I want to..It's my right!!" Gun banner John Deasey is gobbling off again in the Indo today about "the creeping proliferation of the weapons again" and being a big cry baby😭 about protest mail he got back then...🙄 He'd know about "hate mail" if he was a pro-gun politician. 🤣 Any hoo ,if anyone actually pays that rag formerly known as the Independent news paper

    UPDATE.. Found something intresting in this article,and it could be big trouble LEGALLY for the author under our changed defamation legislation.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-hate-mail-was-worth-it-says-former-td-who-led-the-push-against-handgun-ownership-in-ireland-41744017.html

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,793 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp



    Even going with 3%, that's a huge number of resistance fighters to contend with. It's still over 3,000,000 people.

    Anyway, getting off my original point. My point was that it's a lot easier for the US government to deal with 3,000,000 unarmed people than it is for them to deal with 3,000,000 armed people.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    MODERATOR WARNING

    Last post deleted in its entirety as I cannot differentiate between opinion and copied text from the article.

    The copying and pasting of articles (in part and definitely the whole of it) has been prohibited since 2011 under the Copyright SI. Its why we lost the newspaper clippings thread.

    If you want to repost, minus the copied article bits then feel free to do so. If you need your original content let me know.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Ok just follow the link in my last post. If you dont have subscription to the indo please PM me for further info.

    This is important !

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Thanks for copying the article Grizz, even if it is against the forum rules. I could never justify the one euro for a media organisation that publishes sh*te like that. The entire article just goes to show that Deasy has no f*cking clue what he's on about. Any update on the Firearms Expert Committee?



  • Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭ JP22


    The same article or similar appeared in the Examiner, link hereunder.


    Read the last piece about the Garda Commissioner.

    If this is taken as "word for word", then its appalling that the GC is not explaining in detail to the Dáil Public Accounts Committee that Glocks licensed by AGS are in .22 RF in accordance with legislation and that the criminals Glocks are 9mm which are illegal to license.

    Maybe the GC did explain the differences, maybe not, the article as usual is third rate as best and paints us all with the same brush.

    As the old Garda saying goes, move on folks, nothing new to see here.............



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    If only our lads would take a leaf out of the Polish PM's book...

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1536301391106408453?t=vjFY_Fi-Ijey8iCedOpYYA&s=09

    Post edited by garrettod on

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Just imagine... investment in more safe facilities, more training etc.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Except this article is ancient history from Nov 2008!!!😃🤣

    John isn't a TD anymore,ol Factna is long gone from AGS and Oliva is....??? This was the time Deasy who soon smoked himself out of a front bench position with his "its my RIGHT to smoke wherever I want!" was egging on Dermot Aherne to keep his words at the GRA conference in May of that year. But it still shows the nastiness of this political has been, who is probably trying to be a comeback kid from Dungarvan, who claims he got these emails...We only have his word that thy exist[ed] Where they investigated?what was the outcome?And who keeps hate emails from 14 years ago?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Yeah having had a larger and superior aggressor on your doorstep who has both threatened and occupied your country for the bones of 500 years at various times, and political guises and whom you got out the door after the last long stay in the early 90s, and is making unpleasant noises to you again...Does kind of focus the mind on maybe having some shooting lessons and maybe having a few aKs about the place is a good idea.

    looks like the president of FUN and other Polish shooting organisations also got to make their points about this as well and are being heeded.

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    We don't exactly produce the best politicians here in Waterford when it comes to firearms legislations, especially with Grace "oh did you know that I was on the Rainbow Warrior" O'Sullivan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    I'd say that Waterford produces about the same quality of politican, as most other counties, if we're being honest...

    And that isn't intended as a compliment to the Waterford politicans, just to be clear 😊

    We all need to get better at dealing with useless politicans, and not just on voting day.

    Politicans will continue to deliver bad service, as long as we let them!

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Oh the Ex surfer chick,ex rainbow warrior crew,who became all things expert on NZ firearms law, post-Christchurch shooting,because she was on the boat that was sunk in the dock in NZ and "abandoned ship" by walking down the gangplank onto the dock?.... Yeahhhh! A right tale of heroism for those on peril of the sea.🙄

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Always wonderd about this with poor pay, conditions etc and despite the atypical belief of the officer class that "A grumbling and moaning about everything soldier is a happy soldier!"I've always wondered if anything of a real threat ever befell the Irish state,how many of our lot would simply say "Fuk this for a lark!" And desert with their equipment,rifle and anything else of value to look after their own?

    Is it far-fetched? Well considering the world's second-largest army seems to be suffering a desertation rate in Ukraine unseen since the 1930s,and being a Russian soldier is considered one of the perkier jobs in Russia.IE free digs and weekly shopping food staples provided for by the Russian army for you and the missus and kids if you sign up for five-plus, most sign up for much longer and medical & dental. None of which anyone in our forces get. Would you really want to die for Ireland?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    Wouldn’t really matter as our “defence forces” would be obliterated in the first 24hrs either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    True, it's not a very high standard ;) Thank God Deasy and O'Sullivan are gone abroad to do whatever, let's hope they don't come home and start poking around.

    I've had the misfortune of having a run in with her before when I was younger, she's not exactly the nicest of people. But I've seen her around a couple of times since.

    Did you read her article about Irish firearms laws? She got some woman, who's son shot himself and she clearly hasn't come to terms with it, to comment about how all semi automatic rifles should be banned. Not sure how a grossly negligent and deranged woman is qualified to comment on firearms laws, but that doesn't stop Grace. That's sort of a testament to her character, using a mentally ill and unstable woman for her own political gain.

    It always makes me chuckle about how she's most known for surviving a trivial event. Imagine not being known for your political career as a senator and MEP, but instead for walking off a sinking boat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Did you read her article about Irish firearms laws? She got some woman, who's son shot himself and she clearly hasn't come to terms with it, to comment about how all semi automatic rifles should be banned. Not sure how a grossly negligent and deranged woman is qualified to comment on firearms laws, but that doesn't stop Grace. That's sort of a testament to her character, using a mentally ill and unstable woman for her own political gain.

    Nope, but I can guess the tone and wording of this. Quite frankly ,the way to counter these people is simply point out, that this is basically being a grief pimp and misery whore of someone's misfortune to peddle their particular agenda and a step up from being a body bag dancer after any mass casualty event. Like Deasy claims in the article his "work on Capitol Hill" According to his Wiki page he was a legislative assistant[Read in real speak a glorified gofer and office boy who digs up info for a congressman/Senator on different topics] None of them firearms related it seems.. handling trade, foreign affairs, energy, environment, banking, economic development, immigration and human rights, for Congressman Ronald Machtley

    Strange seeing that he worked for two Republicans one would think he would be a bit better informed on 2A He even got into US college the typical High school Jock way on a sports scholarship... For golf!!! Then he went off to work for a garbage collection company in the US before coming back to Ireland to UCC and a bal& chain who works[ed] in RTE.

    The best thing to deflate overinflated blimp egos like Deasy and O Sullivan is a simple pin of truth and pointing out their overinflated claims don't make them qualified to discuss a topic they have no experience of or have an agenda.

    Reading the man's career and attitude it's simple to see his hubristic faults, ego and arrogance and entitlement probably from his old man,Austin Deasy. Anyhoo it seems he has some connections to the Irish answer to the Orange order in the US with a lot of influence here in politics and trade.The ancient order of Hibernians.Just as bigoted on who they let join on their religion as any Orange lodge. So maybe they are pushing his "comeback kid" plans. Considering a net worth of 1/5 million USD in 2021 he isn't short a few bob either. Be nice to relive him of some if that gun nut comment was group defamation.

    https://www.irishcentral.com/news/john-deasy-aoh-e3-visas


    As for the unsinkable Grace O Sullivan,a most interesting snippet from an Irish Times article By Jonathan deBurca Butler

    Sat Jul 4 2015 - 

    Grace wasn't even on the boat when it was blown up.She was on shore leave for 2 days!!! So she was in reality,zero physical danger.In her own words;

    shortly after Rainbow Warrior arrived in Auckland its captain, Peter Wilcox, told half his crew, including O'Sullivan, to go ashore on two days' leave.

    On the night of July 10th, 1985, “the others were on board, celebrating the birthday of Steve Sawyer, the campaign manager – probably hanging around the mess room, chatting and having a few drinks. Next thing the boat shuddered.”

    Know your enemy folks,this is all stuff you can use to discredit people like this when the opportunity arises.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Aww, cmon...We'd give GHANA a fair battering if they ever invaded our little isle!Their army is about the same size as ours...🤣

    They have a better airforce mind! They have a troop transport aircraft and have a Govt VIP jet that actually flies and is bigger too! Fly more of the Tucanos than we do. [20plus]

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭ JP22


    Sorry Grizz,

    Apologies, mea-culpa, long day, longer night, never looked at the date, lol…… eegit me…..

    Members will/should know where I’m coming from vis-a-vis comments published/stated and the total lack of detail within same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,185 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    3% would be 9,800,000 not 98,000. A factor of 100 more. I agree that would be a force to be reckoned with. And 20million people (7%) running logistics are probably needed to make that possible - that seems about right. But it's simply fantasy think a militia of that size could emerge and operate in the shadows.

    I wasn't sayng 3m people is easy to deal with (the US army is <500k). I'm saying an organised militia of that size has no chances of existing.

    Instead you get lots of groups fighting each other, no organisation, and much easier to deal with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,793 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    The Mujahadeen/Taliban are tribal factions who (to quote Bishop Len Brennan in Father Ted) "have been knocking the sh1te out of each other for centuries" yet they were able to work towards a common goal.

    Anyway, I'm dropping out after this because I've said it before, but an armed population is in a much better position to mount a resistance to a tyrannical government than an unarmed population is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,185 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Indeed thy do, but what good is state-of-the-art comms and wonders of technology against a bunch of people who hardly if ever use a phone, and are smart enough to ditch it after using it only once. Or rely on memorised messages sent by a human courier with a cutout?

    State-of-the-art comms and tech allow you to do your job more effectively, does require your opposition to be using digital comms that you can spy on. The fact you are talking about person to person communication, and an militia of 30million people is precisely why it's fantasy.

    As I said,the military hardware is negated if they had to use it on US soil itself. Even our lot hardly ever used the phone in NI to discuss anything of import,or even kept anything on paper all this technology is vulnerable too,as Russia is finding out in Ukraine were some "missile hunters" are knocking out 5million euro Russian missiles with a E20 worth of ammo from a 50 cal rifle,by shooting a hole in its side damaging the propulsion or electronics.Missiles are very thin-skinned and delicate when on the launcher and very vulnerable. Point is over reliance on tech is not a sure-fire win either and this is a common US mistake.

    Tech superiority is not the same as an over-reliance on tech.

    I doubt anyone is overweight in the US armed forces mandatory fitness requirements every 6 months see to that.You are just making my point and still don't know what leaderless resistance in guerrilla warfare is?You keep thinking this has to be or will be organised,controlled and commanded by some central authority? That doesn't happen in a modern guerrilla war.

    where did I say anyone in the US army was overweight? I was clearly refering to the US civilian population. I also never mentioned a central authority. Although most successfull guerrilla foces have leadership. Bit ever a truely leaderless organisation has logistical needs.

    There is only ONE oath if you are LE,military or a US citizen.How it is interpreted is up to you.

    Your point being, as this is stating the obvious?

    The point being think that everyone will interpret the one way, in your favour, is extremely naive.

    The reason I mentioned Posse Comitatus in this is that militarisation of federal forces and federalisation of police forces is eroding this part of the oath by claiming that you as a soldier or officer must follow a lawful direction of a Federal[civilian] agent in important work. Posse Comitatus specifically prohibits US armed forces personnel from being used in a law enforcement role, irrespective of branch and that also includes using military equipment. Does this then leave the question open is the National Gaurd, as it has been used and is used in combat roles, globally in American conflicts, actually under military command or state command?

    The Posse Comitatus act forbids the army from being used for domestic law enforcement. What you are describing is a civil war, which goes beyond domestic policing. There is no question about the National guard, they are a state armed force, not a federal military. There is specifically for state level matters. The Posse Comitatus act only referred to the Army, the air force were added. The Navy and Marines are not included, although voluntary follow it via DoD policy.

    And the 1st thing to go would be the power in America's horribly vulnerable power grid. So imagine cities like DC, NYC,LA without power for months? And you as the gun-banning president are going to have to figure out how to keep law and order and the food supplied and the toilets flushing in those chaotic hell holes.

    That's going to make life pretty difficult for any would be militia of millions.

    Vicky Weaver holding a 6-month baby,and her son Sammy Weaver, after masked and armed men prowling about the property and then shot his dog sure fit that description?

    So because one FBI sniper pulled the trigger. Every single member of the US LE and Armed forces would do the same? That's quite the picture you are painting of american servicemen - not a glowing endorsement of the former servicement in any militia.

    I'm not an expert of Ruby Ridge. But my understanding was that he shot Randy Weaver ,and the bullet passed trough and git and killed Vicky. A bit OOT the top to claim it was intentional.

    Heavy-handed is an understatement! Using a tear gas dispensing armoured combat engineer vehicle to pump gas into a building,with the wind blowing against the tanks back,which meant the gas was having no effect as it was blowing straight out again,and using it as a battering ram on a wooden church where they knew there were flammable materials and lanterns in use...Yeah you could say that!

    Well, I did say that. It was a clusterfcuk. The FBI being over the top doesn't equate to innocence though.

    Each and every one of those points has been proven FALSE a long time ago. Even if they were true at the time BATF is not child protection services or the Drug Enforcement Agency,as the other excuse was they had a meth lab on the premises.Those two organisations could have acted on those accusations instead if it had been true. BATF even admitted that this was over reach in serving a warrant,that could have been executed with the Sheriff of Waco who was on good terms with Koresh, and even if they felt there was the chance of hostility, could have lifted Koresh almost anytime he was in Waco ,or out on a regular morning jog around the compound.

    False? Not really. The BATF was there as they were investigate a cache of illegal arms. Which turned out to be true. Whether they should have done it better doesn't change that. The 2A right to bear arms is not unlimited, whether anyone agrees or not, that was the law.

    Koresh had multiple wives, and fathered children on teenagers. Including one as young as 14. That is on record and under investigation since well before the raid. So certainly was not made to as a cover up. And there's absolutely so way I can find an excuse for that. It's not really a topic I what to discuss as I find it abhorrent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Sorry really havent got time to go into all this academic plaver and your opinions on whatever.It is what it is and things are moving forward here now in Ireland that are much more important than whatever happens or happened in the USA 20 years ago. If you want to drink the US Govt Kool aid on Waco ,enmmpty that jug there..So I'll leave it at that.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,185 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    All good Griz. It's been decades. I don't think we'll change each other's opinion. But also good for others to know the story. I certainly don't the the feds were blameless, and they attempted a cover up as I said. But I personally that overstep won't let me turn a blind eye to the rape of a child within a religious cult.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,793 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    There's at least some logic to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Why we have an army, is beyond me. Its far too small to be any sort of a deterrent, and you'd really only be sending them to be slaughtered, for no good reason, if we were invaded.

    I'd far rather see the Gardai and Army merged into one enlarged Garda force.

    That way, we get about 25,000 Gardai to help keep the scum under control, and in theory, they might also serve as a defensive force, if we were ever invaded. There's no reason why we couldn't have highly trained units, like the rangers, within a combined force, while basic pay and terms would probably be better than what the junior ranks in the army are currently getting.

    Sure, that plan may not work the few hundred that go away with the UN from time to time, but let's call the UN for what it is - completely useless, so why bother with it?

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Jaysus there were some good lines in that film!

    First they came for the socialists...



Advertisement