Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45

Except this article is ancient history from Nov 2008!!!😃🤣

John isn't a TD anymore,ol Factna is long gone from AGS and Oliva is....??? This was the time Deasy who soon smoked himself out of a front bench position with his "its my RIGHT to smoke wherever I want!" was egging on Dermot Aherne to keep his words at the GRA conference in May of that year. But it still shows the nastiness of this political has been, who is probably trying to be a comeback kid from Dungarvan, who claims he got these emails...We only have his word that thy exist[ed] Where they investigated?what was the outcome?And who keeps hate emails from 14 years ago?

Grizzly 45

Yeah having had a larger and superior aggressor on your doorstep who has both threatened and occupied your country for the bones of 500 years at various times, and political guises and whom you got out the door after the last long stay in the early 90s, and is making unpleasant noises to you again...Does kind of focus the mind on maybe having some shooting lessons and maybe having a few aKs about the place is a good idea.

looks like the president of FUN and other Polish shooting organisations also got to make their points about this as well and are being heeded.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058250085/if-only-or-lads-would-take-a-leaf-out-of-the-polish-pms-book

Fat chance, our politicians won't even pay our soldiers enough to afford a roof over their heads.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119198286#Comment_119198286

We don't exactly produce the best politicians here in Waterford when it comes to firearms legislations, especially with Grace "oh did you know that I was on the Rainbow Warrior" O'Sullivan.

garrettod

I'd say that Waterford produces about the same quality of politican, as most other counties, if we're being honest...

And that isn't intended as a compliment to the Waterford politicans, just to be clear 😊

We all need to get better at dealing with useless politicans, and not just on voting day.

Politicans will continue to deliver bad service, as long as we let them!

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119198402#Comment_119198402

Oh the Ex surfer chick,ex rainbow warrior crew,who became all things expert on NZ firearms law, post-Christchurch shooting,because she was on the boat that was sunk in the dock in NZ and "abandoned ship" by walking down the gangplank onto the dock?.... Yeahhhh! A right tale of heroism for those on peril of the sea.🙄

Grizzly 45

Always wonderd about this with poor pay, conditions etc and despite the atypical belief of the officer class that "A grumbling and moaning about everything soldier is a happy soldier!"I've always wondered if anything of a real threat ever befell the Irish state,how many of our lot would simply say "Fuk this for a lark!" And desert with their equipment,rifle and anything else of value to look after their own?

Is it far-fetched? Well considering the world's second-largest army seems to be suffering a desertation rate in Ukraine unseen since the 1930s,and being a Russian soldier is considered one of the perkier jobs in Russia.IE free digs and weekly shopping food staples provided for by the Russian army for you and the missus and kids if you sign up for five-plus, most sign up for much longer and medical & dental. None of which anyone in our forces get. Would you really want to die for Ireland?

Peppa Cig

Wouldn’t really matter as our “defence forces” would be obliterated in the first 24hrs either way.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199314#Comment_119199314

True, it's not a very high standard ;) Thank God Deasy and O'Sullivan are gone abroad to do whatever, let's hope they don't come home and start poking around.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200296#Comment_119200296

I've had the misfortune of having a run in with her before when I was younger, she's not exactly the nicest of people. But I've seen her around a couple of times since.

Did you read her article about Irish firearms laws? She got some woman, who's son shot himself and she clearly hasn't come to terms with it, to comment about how all semi automatic rifles should be banned. Not sure how a grossly negligent and deranged woman is qualified to comment on firearms laws, but that doesn't stop Grace. That's sort of a testament to her character, using a mentally ill and unstable woman for her own political gain.

It always makes me chuckle about how she's most known for surviving a trivial event. Imagine not being known for your political career as a senator and MEP, but instead for walking off a sinking boat.

Grizzly 45

Did you read her article about Irish firearms laws? She got some woman, who's son shot himself and she clearly hasn't come to terms with it, to comment about how all semi automatic rifles should be banned. Not sure how a grossly negligent and deranged woman is qualified to comment on firearms laws, but that doesn't stop Grace. That's sort of a testament to her character, using a mentally ill and unstable woman for her own political gain.

Nope, but I can guess the tone and wording of this. Quite frankly ,the way to counter these people is simply point out, that this is basically being a grief pimp and misery whore of someone's misfortune to peddle their particular agenda and a step up from being a body bag dancer after any mass casualty event. Like Deasy claims in the article his "work on Capitol Hill" According to his Wiki page he was a legislative assistant[Read in real speak a glorified gofer and office boy who digs up info for a congressman/Senator on different topics] None of them firearms related it seems.. handling trade, foreign affairs, energy, environment, banking, economic development, immigration and human rights, for Congressman Ronald Machtley

Strange seeing that he worked for two Republicans one would think he would be a bit better informed on 2A He even got into US college the typical High school Jock way on a sports scholarship... For golf!!! Then he went off to work for a garbage collection company in the US before coming back to Ireland to UCC and a bal& chain who works[ed] in RTE.

The best thing to deflate overinflated blimp egos like Deasy and O Sullivan is a simple pin of truth and pointing out their overinflated claims don't make them qualified to discuss a topic they have no experience of or have an agenda.

Reading the man's career and attitude it's simple to see his hubristic faults, ego and arrogance and entitlement probably from his old man,Austin Deasy. Anyhoo it seems he has some connections to the Irish answer to the Orange order in the US with a lot of influence here in politics and trade.The ancient order of Hibernians.Just as bigoted on who they let join on their religion as any Orange lodge. So maybe they are pushing his "comeback kid" plans. Considering a net worth of 1/5 million USD in 2021 he isn't short a few bob either. Be nice to relive him of some if that gun nut comment was group defamation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Deasy_%28Fine_Gael_politician%29

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/john-deasy-aoh-e3-visas

As for the unsinkable Grace O Sullivan,a most interesting snippet from an Irish Times article By Jonathan deBurca Butler

Sat Jul 4 2015 - 

Grace wasn't even on the boat when it was blown up.She was on shore leave for 2 days!!! So she was in reality,zero physical danger.In her own words;

shortly after Rainbow Warrior arrived in Auckland its captain, Peter Wilcox, told half his crew, including O'Sullivan, to go ashore on two days' leave.

On the night of July 10th, 1985, “the others were on board, celebrating the birthday of Steve Sawyer, the campaign manager – probably hanging around the mess room, chatting and having a few drinks. Next thing the boat shuddered.”

Know your enemy folks,this is all stuff you can use to discredit people like this when the opportunity arises.

Grizzly 45

Aww, cmon...We'd give GHANA a fair battering if they ever invaded our little isle!Their army is about the same size as ours...🤣

They have a better airforce mind! They have a troop transport aircraft and have a Govt VIP jet that actually flies and is bigger too! Fly more of the Tucanos than we do. [20plus]

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119198286#Comment_119198286

Sorry Grizz,

Apologies, mea-culpa, long day, longer night, never looked at the date, lol…… eegit me…..

Members will/should know where I’m coming from vis-a-vis comments published/stated and the total lack of detail within same.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188209#Comment_119188209

3% would be 9,800,000 not 98,000. A factor of 100 more. I agree that would be a force to be reckoned with. And 20million people (7%) running logistics are probably needed to make that possible - that seems about right. But it's simply fantasy think a militia of that size could emerge and operate in the shadows.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191918#Comment_119191918

I wasn't sayng 3m people is easy to deal with (the US army is <500k). I'm saying an organised militia of that size has no chances of existing.

Instead you get lots of groups fighting each other, no organisation, and much easier to deal with.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205939#Comment_119205939

The Mujahadeen/Taliban are tribal factions who (to quote Bishop Len Brennan in Father Ted) "have been knocking the sh1te out of each other for centuries" yet they were able to work towards a common goal.

Anyway, I'm dropping out after this because I've said it before, but an armed population is in a much better position to mount a resistance to a tyrannical government than an unarmed population is.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188158#Comment_119188158

Indeed thy do, but what good is state-of-the-art comms and wonders of technology against a bunch of people who hardly if ever use a phone, and are smart enough to ditch it after using it only once. Or rely on memorised messages sent by a human courier with a cutout?

State-of-the-art comms and tech allow you to do your job more effectively, does require your opposition to be using digital comms that you can spy on. The fact you are talking about person to person communication, and an militia of 30million people is precisely why it's fantasy.

As I said,the military hardware is negated if they had to use it on US soil itself. Even our lot hardly ever used the phone in NI to discuss anything of import,or even kept anything on paper all this technology is vulnerable too,as Russia is finding out in Ukraine were some "missile hunters" are knocking out 5million euro Russian missiles with a E20 worth of ammo from a 50 cal rifle,by shooting a hole in its side damaging the propulsion or electronics.Missiles are very thin-skinned and delicate when on the launcher and very vulnerable. Point is over reliance on tech is not a sure-fire win either and this is a common US mistake.

Tech superiority is not the same as an over-reliance on tech.

I doubt anyone is overweight in the US armed forces mandatory fitness requirements every 6 months see to that.You are just making my point and still don't know what leaderless resistance in guerrilla warfare is?You keep thinking this has to be or will be organised,controlled and commanded by some central authority? That doesn't happen in a modern guerrilla war.

where did I say anyone in the US army was overweight? I was clearly refering to the US civilian population. I also never mentioned a central authority. Although most successfull guerrilla foces have leadership. Bit ever a truely leaderless organisation has logistical needs.

There is only ONE oath if you are LE,military or a US citizen.How it is interpreted is up to you.

Your point being, as this is stating the obvious?

The point being think that everyone will interpret the one way, in your favour, is extremely naive.

The reason I mentioned Posse Comitatus in this is that militarisation of federal forces and federalisation of police forces is eroding this part of the oath by claiming that you as a soldier or officer must follow a lawful direction of a Federal[civilian] agent in important work. Posse Comitatus specifically prohibits US armed forces personnel from being used in a law enforcement role, irrespective of branch and that also includes using military equipment. Does this then leave the question open is the National Gaurd, as it has been used and is used in combat roles, globally in American conflicts, actually under military command or state command?

The Posse Comitatus act forbids the army from being used for domestic law enforcement. What you are describing is a civil war, which goes beyond domestic policing. There is no question about the National guard, they are a state armed force, not a federal military. There is specifically for state level matters. The Posse Comitatus act only referred to the Army, the air force were added. The Navy and Marines are not included, although voluntary follow it via DoD policy.

And the 1st thing to go would be the power in America's horribly vulnerable power grid. So imagine cities like DC, NYC,LA without power for months? And you as the gun-banning president are going to have to figure out how to keep law and order and the food supplied and the toilets flushing in those chaotic hell holes.

That's going to make life pretty difficult for any would be militia of millions.

Vicky Weaver holding a 6-month baby,and her son Sammy Weaver, after masked and armed men prowling about the property and then shot his dog sure fit that description?

So because one FBI sniper pulled the trigger. Every single member of the US LE and Armed forces would do the same? That's quite the picture you are painting of american servicemen - not a glowing endorsement of the former servicement in any militia.

I'm not an expert of Ruby Ridge. But my understanding was that he shot Randy Weaver ,and the bullet passed trough and git and killed Vicky. A bit OOT the top to claim it was intentional.

Heavy-handed is an understatement! Using a tear gas dispensing armoured combat engineer vehicle to pump gas into a building,with the wind blowing against the tanks back,which meant the gas was having no effect as it was blowing straight out again,and using it as a battering ram on a wooden church where they knew there were flammable materials and lanterns in use...Yeah you could say that!

Well, I did say that. It was a clusterfcuk. The FBI being over the top doesn't equate to innocence though.

Each and every one of those points has been proven FALSE a long time ago. Even if they were true at the time BATF is not child protection services or the Drug Enforcement Agency,as the other excuse was they had a meth lab on the premises.Those two organisations could have acted on those accusations instead if it had been true. BATF even admitted that this was over reach in serving a warrant,that could have been executed with the Sheriff of Waco who was on good terms with Koresh, and even if they felt there was the chance of hostility, could have lifted Koresh almost anytime he was in Waco ,or out on a regular morning jog around the compound.

False? Not really. The BATF was there as they were investigate a cache of illegal arms. Which turned out to be true. Whether they should have done it better doesn't change that. The 2A right to bear arms is not unlimited, whether anyone agrees or not, that was the law.

Koresh had multiple wives, and fathered children on teenagers. Including one as young as 14. That is on record and under investigation since well before the raid. So certainly was not made to as a cover up. And there's absolutely so way I can find an excuse for that. It's not really a topic I what to discuss as I find it abhorrent.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119206213#Comment_119206213

Sorry really havent got time to go into all this academic plaver and your opinions on whatever.It is what it is and things are moving forward here now in Ireland that are much more important than whatever happens or happened in the USA 20 years ago. If you want to drink the US Govt Kool aid on Waco ,enmmpty that jug there..So I'll leave it at that.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208008#Comment_119208008

All good Griz. It's been decades. I don't think we'll change each other's opinion. But also good for others to know the story. I certainly don't the the feds were blameless, and they attempted a cover up as I said. But I personally that overstep won't let me turn a blind eye to the rape of a child within a religious cult.

BattleCorp

There's at least some logic to it.

garrettod

Why we have an army, is beyond me. Its far too small to be any sort of a deterrent, and you'd really only be sending them to be slaughtered, for no good reason, if we were invaded.

I'd far rather see the Gardai and Army merged into one enlarged Garda force.

That way, we get about 25,000 Gardai to help keep the scum under control, and in theory, they might also serve as a defensive force, if we were ever invaded. There's no reason why we couldn't have highly trained units, like the rangers, within a combined force, while basic pay and terms would probably be better than what the junior ranks in the army are currently getting.

Sure, that plan may not work the few hundred that go away with the UN from time to time, but let's call the UN for what it is - completely useless, so why bother with it?

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210567#Comment_119210567

Jaysus there were some good lines in that film!

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214036#Comment_119214036

Tombstone? Or do I have the wrong film?

Grizzly 45

So something like Iceland then? Where the police is the army and navy as well?, and as NATO members they know they will have a friendly invasion if they are ever threatened because of their strategic location? Could work ,or is there something in the constitution that separates civil and military power?

Another version would be a Swiss system that includes guerrilla warfare and civilian resistance into their defence plans.We might be invaded,but we make it unliveable and ungovernable for any occupying force. We were,and are pretty good at it considering what happened in N Ireland for 30 odd years.

Neither will happen of course...Too many careers and vested interests and "national prestige" are involved for thinking like that.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217520#Comment_119217520

Were they really that good at it up the road? Usual suspects drinking in the same "Ra" pubs going to the same gatherings. Hardly much point in cells when they were coming back from ops and palling about together after. If the English had treated it as a war would they have been as effective? No different than our little skirmish of Independence, the weight of international opinion had a lot to do with the outcome.

Grizzly 45

Annnddd another article in this Sundays Indo from Mrs Sheehan about the horror of innocent children owning guns in Ireland.

Is anyone or any of our orgs going to bother to respond to this?

LATER

paywalled of course with the scariest paragraph first, which is what most will read and belive. I've seen the article, she went off and bothered the NARGC and got nothing exciting from them or the AGS.So it isn't that bad compared to the last one of Deasy's rants last week.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/firearms-certificates-issued-to-300-minors-every-year-gardai-reveal-41767160.html

Cass

You can link to the artcle, just not copy and paste the content.

Grizzly 45

outcome.Were they really that good at it up the road? Usual suspects drinking in the same "Ra" pubs going to the same gatherings. Hardly much point in cells when they were coming back from ops and palling about together after. If the English had treated it as a war would they have been as effective? No different than our little skirmish of Independence, the weight of international opinion had a lot to do with the

Not condoning for one minute what was done in the name of "Irish freedom" here for 35 plus years. But from a perspective of a successful guerrilla war,they were rated as the most successful urban guerrilla movement in the mid to late 20th century. Considering they almost wiped out the British cabinet,twice. Killed a prominent royal, and a few MPs, generals and politicians,and virtually turned a British army base into a supply-by-air only situation and kept an entire unit of combat-hardened British soldiers in base undercover with a Barrett 50 cal for a month in the same area. Only other crowd that stood as long have been the Basque Separatists,but they never managed as many spectaculars.

If you bring in an army to do civilian policing, you end up with things like bloody Sunday, and its a sign you as a govt are losing control,so it is a very fine balancing act and usually not advisable. But that was the strange thing about NI because it was such a microcosm and utter tribalism of a society.It was no problem for lads to go to the pub and home to dinner after a hard day sniping or whatever.It was hard if not impossible to penetrate that sort of a society, where everyone is more or less related or knows each other like Ireland.

Cass

Wow. 😲

Supreme in the States have been busy this week.

A couple of days ago they overturned a New York law restricting the carrying of handguns for personal defence ( concealed carry ) and on SKY news just now they have overturned Roe-v-Wade.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119244279#Comment_119244279

Not surprised R v W was overturned.

I agree with the liberty it was trying to grant. But I dint think the constitutional amendment its hinged on actually backs it up.

plus it was essentially redundant law since Texas managed a workaround

Cass

Wasn't that the basis for the SC reviewing it? That is was based on improper or poor interpretation of the law?

Mellor

Not quite. It may have been a poor interpretation of the constitutional. But that’s not why they were reviewing it. Afaik the SC doesn’t actively review past decisions on their own accord.

W v R restricted state abortion laws to viability (21-24 weeks). In 2018 Mississippi signed a law in effect than banned abortion from 15 weeks. It was suspended by the court as obviously it was not in compliance with federal law. And it made its way to the SC. Which is what they were actually ruling on here in the first instance. But that decision impacts and supersedes W v R.

Basically it will be up to the states. Many states won’t change. But some will restrict it to fewer weeks, or even ban it.