Would you report a social welfare cheat?

erica74

I just spotted this article on thejournal - http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-social-welfare-cheats-3344358-Apr2017/

My answer is yes I would report a social welfare cheat.

Surely the system is severely broken if €14 million is being paid in fraudulent claims?
How are these people doing it without being found out?

My own experience of the social welfare system is that even if you have a PPS number and a social services card, you still need to provide full ID and address verification and your application is combed through thoroughly. Is that not the case for every applicant?
I know that when I have been unemployed and claiming a social welfare payment, I have never felt I could "get away" with claiming any sort of payment that I wasn't 100% entitled to and more often than not, had to jump through hoops to get what I was entitled to from my PRSI contributions.

Does anyone know if there is a breakdown available of the most common type of fraudulent claim?

What are your thoughts on social welfare cheats? Would you report someone?

Graces7

Yes I would and indeed yes I have reported fraud AND tax evasion too..

Reminds me.....

The new SAFE card system is supposed to be helping this .. but some folk are very clever at all this.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

No question I would

erica74

erica74 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is a breakdown available of the most common type of fraudulent claim?

https://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr221216.aspxhttps://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr221216.aspx

Type of report|Jan-Nov 2015|Jan-Nov 2016|Change
Working & claiming|6,117|8,512|+39%
Cohabitation|3,136|4,014|+28%
Outside ROI|632|649|+3%
Employer issue|386|599|+55%
Other reasons|4,281|6,381|+49%


the overall rate of detection was up 39% y-o-y

Omackeral

I notice a lot of this type of commentary on social media.

If it's a foreign looking or sounding person doing it (even if they're actually from here) -Deport them. Send them home.

If it's an Irish person doing it - Ah fair play to them, shure the bankers are all at it.

I wonder how many times the same person fits more than one category

Why are all welfares not paid to bank account? The lines in my post office........................

Ezra Wibberley

No doubt some people will be along to say "No, you should mind your own business", getting indignant and enraged at those 'do-gooders' who report welfare fraud.

Welfare fraud costs each and every one of us who make contributions to the tax system. Service money is given away to fraudsters instead of being put to good use elsewhere. Now, the fact that there's a good chance any additional money in the system will be mismanaged is a topic for discussion another day!

If you know particular cases of welfare fraud, report it!

Blazer

There's a certain ethnic group that claim social welfare across several counties.
I don't give a frak that they can't read or write. Signing your name should be mandatory and if you can't well no cheque. Also photo id should be mandatory.
And yes to bank account. This whole post office thing is way out of date.

Winterlong

I would report it at the drop of a hat. They are just robbing of the rest of us.

MikeenRonanJr

It depends entirely on the circumstances. Someone who you'd have a fair idea is having a rough time financially and gets two under-the-table shifts a week at his cousin's bar? I wouldn't be too inclined to go through the hassle of it tbh.

Outlaw Pete

Only if their TV was over 42".

The Backwards Man

Depends where they're spending it

drunkmonkey

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

No doubt some people will be along to say "No, you should mind your own business", getting indignant and enraged at those 'do-gooders' who report welfare fraud.

Welfare fraud costs each and every one of us who make contributions to the tax system. Service money is given away to fraudsters instead of being put to good use elsewhere. Now, the fact that there's a good chance any additional money in the system will be mismanaged is a topic for discussion another day!

If you know particular cases of welfare fraud, report it!

You honestly belevive the money will be "put to good use somewhere", I'm
still laughing.

riffmongous

It would depend on the circumstances for me. If I thought someone was genuinely struggling then no I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it

Ezra Wibberley

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You honestly belevive the money will be "put to good use somewhere", I'm
still laughing.

Try reading that again;

Now, the fact that there's a good chance any additional money in the system will be mismanaged is a topic for discussion another day!

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are all welfares not paid to bank account? The lines in my post office........................

An Post would "love" you! They hate that we can do this.

And yes and mine go into my bank . But seeing the lines on Fridays, and that some old ones queue from soon after eight... they meet friends and it is an outing. Then they go and shop...a tradition...

Graces7

Blazer wrote: »

There's a certain ethnic group that claim social welfare across several counties.
I don't give a frak that they can't read or write. Signing your name should be mandatory and if you can't well no cheque. Also photo id should be mandatory.
And yes to bank account. This whole post office thing is way out of date.

This is what the new SAFE card is aiming at..

see

http://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.301/79522/0/

Should sort some fraud out. You have to attend in person and they take a photo etc, as for a passport.

Graces7

MikeenRonanJr wrote: »

It depends entirely on the circumstances. Someone who you'd have a fair idea is having a rough time financially and gets two under-the-table shifts a week at his cousin's bar? I wouldn't be too inclined to go through the hassle of it tbh.

May be wrong but I thought there was for some benefits a small earnings allowed?

Zebra3

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are all welfares not paid to bank account? The lines in my post office........................

Some payments like unemployment benefit (or whatever it's' exact term is) have to be collected to ensure that the receipient is in the state.

When you collect it you can have it in cash or have it paid directly into your bank account or a bit of both.

jenn1984

I'm a 'casual worker' on a 3 day week and claiming a part payment - welfare cheats give all of us a bad name. I would definitely report anyone that I had knowledge about.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

To my shock, more than 28% of respondents on that poll have said that they wouldn't report a SW cheat. What the hell is wrong with this country?

Obviously, it depends on the context. If the person is backed into a corner and struggling to make ends meet, it's maybe slightly different to the woman on One Parent Family Payment who is living with the father of the child who is bringing home €600 per week, which is inexcusable in my opinion and it is going on wholesale.

Strong Life in Dublin

Depends on the situation, for example I would not report someone attending college and collecting payments. I don't know if this still happens, but I heard a few years ago about people getting caught doing this.

My reason for not reporting this is that this is that this person is clearly trying to better them self and not is staying at home all day etc, and will be paying taxes when they graduate college.

Graces7

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Depends on the situation, for example I would not report someone attending college and collecting payments. I don't know if this still happens, but I heard a few years ago about people getting caught doing this.

My reason for not reporting this is that this is that this person is clearly trying to better them self and not is staying at home all day etc, and will be paying taxes when they graduate college.

So? It is still cheating and a poor foundation.

Mrs OBumble

Graces7 wrote: »

May be wrong but I thought there was for some benefits a small earnings allowed?

You're wrong. Kind of.

Mose people on benefits are allowed to work casually. But they have to report those earnings so their benefit can be adjusted. And the employer has to pay above the table and to do paperwork saying theres no full time job available.

The challenge with reporting theses cases is that you don't know who's cheating and whose not.

infogiver

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Depends on the situation, for example I would not report someone attending college and collecting payments. I don't know if this still happens, but I heard a few years ago about people getting caught doing this.

My reason for not reporting this is that this is that this person is clearly trying to better them self and not is staying at home all day etc, and will be paying taxes when they graduate college.

So if we all decide to give up work go back to school and collect the dole where will the money come from?

Graces7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You're wrong. Kind of.

Mose people on benefits are allowed to work casually. But they have to report those earnings so their benefit can be adjusted. And the employer has to pay above the table and to do paperwork saying theres no full time job available.

The challenge with reporting theses cases is that you don't know who's cheating and whose not.

Thanks. I am out of touch and probably basing it on the UK. :rolleyes:

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are all welfares not paid to bank account? The lines in my post office........................

Because it's easier to commit fraud then......

Annasopra

jenn1984 wrote: »

I'm a 'casual worker' on a 3 day week and claiming a part payment - welfare cheats give all of us a bad name. I would definitely report anyone that I had knowledge about.

There will probably be people going "that Jenn one, you know she works while claiming the dole, I'm gonna report her"

Annasopra

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You're wrong. Kind of.

Mose people on benefits are allowed to work casually. But they have to report those earnings so their benefit can be adjusted. And the employer has to pay above the table and to do paperwork saying theres no full time job available.

The challenge with reporting theses cases is that you don't know who's cheating and whose not.

And you know what by asking for reports the state is now going to waste resources investigating cases like this :rolleyes:

Clonmel1000

Blazer wrote: »

There's a certain ethnic group that claim social welfare across several counties.
I don't give a frak that they can't read or write. Signing your name should be mandatory and if you can't well no cheque. Also photo id should be mandatory.
And yes to bank account. This whole post office thing is way out of date.

They actually don't as they can't. Post office means that the person has to be in the country to collect payment. Bank account means they need never be around.

jenn1984

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There will probably be people going "that Jenn one, you know she works while claiming the dole, I'm gonna report her"

I know people like that exist - a combination of ignorance and downright meanness. I know I have nothing to hide but I'd be p**d off to have to deal with being reported when I have nothing to hide.

gctest50

And will Leo provide you with new kneecaps if you pick the wrong person to report ?


He seemed to run away from the billion+ euro losses in the HSE due to mistakes:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/claims-against-hse-soar-in-5-years-329877.html

The cost of mistakes made within healthcare settings is already huge. The State Claims Agency (SCA) has reported it had more than 3,000 claims on hand at the end of 2013, arising from medical errors alone and was expecting payouts to run to €1bn.

One eyed Jack

Ezra Wibberley wrote: »

No doubt some people will be along to say "No, you should mind your own business", getting indignant and enraged at those 'do-gooders' who report welfare fraud.

Welfare fraud costs each and every one of us who make contributions to the tax system. Service money is given away to fraudsters instead of being put to good use elsewhere. Now, the fact that there's a good chance any additional money in the system will be mismanaged is a topic for discussion another day!

If you know particular cases of welfare fraud, report it!

As opposed to some people getting all indignant and enraged at those who... well, don't? Genuinely I couldn't be bothered as I have more things to be concerned with than my neighbours lifestyles.

learn_more

No I wouldn't be arsed.

Strong Life in Dublin

infogiver wrote: »

So if we all decide to give up work go back to school and collect the dole where will the money come from?

I'm saying if someone is already on the dole and want's to better themselves by going to college and getting a degree...

Do you think it would be better for them to sit on their ass for 3 years collecting dole, and then go to college? Because I think they are entitled to back to education allowance after 2 or 3years on the dole

Conall Cernach

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0418/868427-welfare-fraud/
RTE has it that there were 20,000 reports of welfare fraud but only 1 in 3 resulted in payments being reduced or stopped. So, bearing in mind that Welfare will claim back an over payment, this means that 2/3rds of reports were found to be groundless.

infogiver

gctest50 wrote: »

And will Leo provide you with new kneecaps if you pick the wrong person to report ?


He seemed to run away from the billion+ euro losses in the HSE due to mistakes:

You can report anonymously on line

Conall Cernach

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

I'm saying if someone is already on the dole and want's to better themselves by going to college and getting a degree...

Do you think it would be better for them to sit on their ass for 3 years collecting dole, and then go to college? Because I think they are entitled to back to education allowance after 2 or 3years on the dole

9 months on JSA will qualify you for the BTEA at the same rate as your dole payment.

Strong Life in Dublin

Conall Cernach wrote: »

9 months on JSA will qualify you for the BTEA at the same rate as your dole payment.

Ah thanks, I could've swore I heard it was 2 years

Conall Cernach

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Ah thanks, I could've swore I heard it was 2 years

It's 2 years for Illness Benefit.

scamalert

think what needs to be abolished is if someone turned 18 with no work experience and contributions shouldnt be allowed onto register,make it mandatory 5-10years work before one would be eligible,to eliminate those of who are breed to just be on it for life.

And secondly depending on contributions there should be councils that provide work be it trash picking bins,general community contribution in return,to get people out of home and into world.

Since seems general attitude from people is if you cant find work where you live move -meaning most expensive capita in the world,goverment sees it as we will hire outside agents who will put you into any job as long as your gone.

And with all this most towns in country look like kips, where id imagine councils wouldnt complain if had several dozen people on rotating basis contributing for wf to at least make some clean changes on daily basis,in other words supply those on welfare with low skilled assignments,rather then just free handout.

Thus in such case people would actually notice difference be it side roads clear of trash or clean towns every day,not just few people crew doing whole town after each weekend when its trashed to the top.

snowflaker

Remind me of how much we wrote off for the banks?
The tab we picked up for the Religious Institutions? And we build them a new hospital!!!

Seems like we are looking down on some while turning a blind eye to others.

I don't like welfare fraud but it's small fry compared to other areas of government wastage

infogiver

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Ah thanks, I could've swore I heard it was 2 years

2 years of Illness Benefit

Strong Life in Dublin

scamalert wrote: »

think what needs to be abolished is if someone turned 18 with no work experience and contributions shouldnt be allowed onto register,make it mandatory 5-10years work before one would be eligible,to eliminate those of who are breed to just be on it for life.

Yeah **** over the young people even more, it's not like young people in this country are not already ****ed over, with car insurance etc

infogiver

snowflaker wrote: »

Remind me of how much we wrote off for the banks?
The tab we picked up for the Religious Institutions? And we build them a new hospital!!!

Seems like we are looking down on some while turning a blind eye to others.

I don't like welfare fraud but it's small fry compared to other areas of government wastage

Is the hospital for the religious order or patients to be treated in?
I think you probably don't have any problem with welfare fraud at all because you don't care that the taxpayer is footing the bill and you don't realise that other citizens (like home Carers and the disabled) are having to do without services that could make their lives easier because SW scammers are stealing the money out of their pockets.

grogi

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

https://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr221216.aspxhttps://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr221216.aspx

Type of report|Jan-Nov 2015|Jan-Nov 2016|Change
Working & claiming|6,117|8,512|+39%
Cohabitation|3,136|4,014|+28%
Outside ROI|632|649|+3%
Employer issue|386|599|+55%
Other reasons|4,281|6,381|+49%


the overall rate of detection was up 39% y-o-y

Rate of detection remains unknown. It might as well dropped while the number of detected cases went up...

Zebra3

snowflaker wrote: »

Remind me of how much we wrote off for the banks?
The tab we picked up for the Religious Institutions? And we build them a new hospital!!!

Seems like we are looking down on some while turning a blind eye to others.

I don't like welfare fraud but it's small fry compared to other areas of government wastage

FG promising to fight €13bn due to the taxpayer from Apple. :rolleyes:

Politicians allowed claim €160 a night unvouched for turning up for work. :rolleyes:

Your Face

I would but with the sense of it not making a real difference.

Annasopra

jenn1984 wrote: »

I know people like that exist - a combination of ignorance and downright meanness. I know I have nothing to hide but I'd be p**d off to have to deal with being reported when I have nothing to hide.

We all know they exist. Can't understand why government is wasting money feeding into the mean mindedness of people like that.

Annasopra

Conall Cernach wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0418/868427-welfare-fraud/
RTE has it that there were 20,000 reports of welfare fraud but only 1 in 3 resulted in payments being reduced or stopped. So, bearing in mind that Welfare will claim back an over payment, this means that 2/3rds of reports were found to be groundless.

So why waste resources setting up this new system?