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NIGHT SHOOTING

  • 17-04-2017 3:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭ LONG DRAG


    Hi hear that the department are to stop all shooting at night, this is to the best of my belief a done deal.

    Meeting next Thursday in Dublin to tell us what will happen


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭ gunny123


    What night shooting ? Foxes, rabbits, deer ? What department ? What meeting ? Where ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭ Heavy handed


    There wanting to bring in a curfew for the months of September to march for the hours of 12 midnight to 6 in the morning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭ LONG DRAG


    Don't know the full story and I'm not going to give out wrong info, but what i know is that a working group has been working away from the Department of Justice and Equality on best practice for night shooting.

    Meeting on 20 April in St Stephens Green( DOJ) at 11 AM

    NARGC will be in attendance on the 20 April, but were not aware of the working groups existence until last week. :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭ RossiFan08


    There wanting to bring in a curfew for the months of September to march for the hours of 12 midnight to 6 in the morning.

    If this is true I am not sure what their goals are. If it is to stop deer poaching, why is March included? The deer season is over at this stage. If it is for public safety how is shooting before 12 any safer? If anything it is more dangerous as there would be more people about.

    The only thing I can see this as is a stepping stone for an outright ban on night shooting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭ .243


    LONG DRAG wrote: »
    Hi hear that the department are to stop all shooting at night, this is to the best of my belief a done deal.

    Meeting next Thursday in Dublin to tell us what will happen

    What organisation did you "hear" this from,or is it just bar stool talk


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Sports Coalition of vested interests is a disgrace. This week they **** over the 25000 plus shooters in the country to protect deer stalking

    Next week we will hear how they agreed to a 5 year safe pass course style certification for shooters to be carried out on certain ranges only.

    Shocking but I warned this before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭ berettaman


    Sports Coalition of vested interests is a disgrace. This week they **** over the 25000 plus shooters in the country to protect deer stalking

    Next week we will hear how they agreed to a 5 year safe pass course style certification for shooters to be carried out on certain ranges only.

    Shocking but I warned this before.

    Feckin kills me to say it but Cavan shooter flagged the issues before.

    It is being proposed to limit nightime shooting in order to curb poaching.

    3 meetings occurred involving a subcommittee of the FCP. The Sports Coalition were meant to be representing hunters at this.
    I now know NARGC were fully justified in trying to get representation at FCP.

    This is scandalous and will not be let tolerated.

    Whole idea is unenforceable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭ berettaman


    .243 wrote: »
    What organisation did you "hear" this from,or is it just bar stool talk

    NARGC were given a report of the subcommittee of FCP late last week. They sent it to all RGCs. Is this why S.C. did not want NARGC people at the FCP?

    Not bar stool talk at all..


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭ LONG DRAG


    Subject: working group on night time shooting - final report and recommendations (including best practice guidance).
    To: all members of the Firearms Consultative Panel (FCP) Dear Members,
    The working group on night time shooting has produced their final report and recommendations (including best practice guidance).
    Please see the attachment below.
    These matters will on the agenda of the upcoming meeting of the FCP for your endorsement.
    In addition can any of you who have not already done so, please confirm to my by email whether you will be attending the meeting
    next Thursday 20th April at 11.00am (location - Dept. of Justice & Equality, 94 St. Stephen's Green, Dublin 2).
    Regards,
    Colm Rath | Firearms, Explosives and Private Security Policy Division | Department of Justice & Equality |


    :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Okay..just rang one of our county lads he says our Secretary has a report and it will be discussed at an executive meeting on Tuesday.
    He says That from the gist of it lamping between Sept and March is stopped.

    He also says they aren't going to stand for it...and already an email mail has gone to that effect to the NARGC.

    He won't say anything else till after Tuesday but the email basically says.

    How did this happen?
    Why weren't the Club's informed?
    Who let this Happen?
    What's been done about it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭ berettaman


    4. To explore the practicalities of imposing a curfew during hours of darkness
    Given the fact that dawn changes as the season’s progress, a simple straightforward
    solution to this issue was somewhat problematic. The WG was acutely conscious for the
    balance to be struck between curtailing/eliminating illegal dangerous activities versus the
    need for farmers, foresters and other land managers to manage their
    enterprise/landholding in a legal and safe manner.
    There was agreement that the majority of issues associated with shooting or hunting at
    night centre around (but not exclusively) the autumn, winter and spring periods.
    The solution proposed is that a curfew is in place from 1st Sept until 31st March and operates
    between the hours of 12 midnight and 6am. During the curfew period no shooting or
    hunting should take place except in accordance with a licence or permit (e.g. Sec 42).
    There will be no curfew in April, May, June, July and August when the nights are very short.
    If it becomes apparent that these months are indeed problematic they can be reviewed.
    5. AGS to examine the conditions that may be applied to firearms certificates to
    affect some control over night shooting in the interests of public safety.
    This matter is incorporated in 2 above.

    From the report..


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    So from the above post and I refer to the term hunting used therein how will this effect the opening days of the deer season for morning stalking or the use of high seats as it usual practice to be in situ prior to first light and as far as I can remember would involve pre 06.00hrs movement etc.?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Now any 223 or 204 set up for foxes is ****ing worthless. You won't be able to give them away.

    Bastards


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭ berettaman


    So from the above post and I refer to the term hunting used therein how will this effect the opening days of the deer season for morning stalking or the use of high seats as it usual practice to be in situ prior to forts light and as far as I can remember would involve pre 06.00hrs movement etc.?

    You are quite right. If it becomes the law. . Big if.

    Say you live in Waterford but shoot deer in Tipp. If you head out to get set up before dawn as most do..you would be breaching these guidelines if you bring your gun with you🀔

    Madness..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    berettaman wrote:
    Say you live in Waterford but shoot deer in Tipp. If you head out to get set up before dawn as most do..you would be breaching these guidelines if you bring your gun with youðŸ€â€


    Sorry...You use the term guidelines. These are being rubber stamped by the FCP on Thursday...sorry mate there done and dusted...and we are screwed over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭ berettaman


    Now any 223 or 204 set up for foxes is ****ing worthless. You won't be able to give them away.

    Bastards

    Never thought of that. 😣


  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ DogfoxCork


    i read the document stating these new guidelines and it seems very vague. and has a part about special condition to add to a licence to allow shooting past the "curfew" it seems so ridiculous. the campfire utilising nomadic travellers...! will be delighted to have free reign of the countryside to go snooping around!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭ .243


    So basically every farmer in the country that want to protect their sheep flock,will have to shut down,eh yeah I can see the ifa running with this,
    I can see a glorious brand new course coming in for those who do want to shoot at night,if you want to go out you'll have to be qualified.......chick Ching!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ DogfoxCork


    .243 wrote: »
    So basically every farmer in the country that want to protect their sheep flock,will have to shut down,eh yeah I can see the ifa running with this

    even clubs releasing birds! they get hammered hard enough as it is.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Vegeta


    It is already illegal to hunt deer at night (without license) what difference will a curfew make. Most organised poaching crews are not using lamps at this stage so anyone who says that it will be easy to identify poachers by the lamps they use is being very naive.

    NARGC have caught wind of this so I hope they object in the strongest possible terms.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Vegeta wrote:
    It is already illegal to hunt deer at night (without license) what difference will a curfew make. Most organised poaching crews are not using lamps at this stage so anyone who says that it will be easy to identify poachers by the lamps they use is being very naive.


    Yeah...3k will get you a **** hot NOD set up....again it's the legal legit lads that's hung out to dry by our so called representatives. Looking at the dates and the wording they were purposely leaving the NARGC out of it. Also this started last year July time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭ gunny123


    berettaman wrote: »

    It is being proposed to limit nightime shooting in order to curb poaching.

    I have heard of reports of deer being shot at night recently, the scum that poach don't pay any heed to seasons, or any other laws for that matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1


    Is it possible to put up the PDF of the report?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    grassroot1 wrote:
    Is it possible to put up the PDF of the report?


    Post 18 above in all its glory.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    If this does come to pass and there is no exception added in such as the requirement to contact the NPWS and local Garda - current practice for Sec 42 and use of lamp for deer, then all concerned should swamp the relevant offices for a Section 36 - License to use Mechanically Propelled Vehicles for Hunting. There is a section that covers the use of a lamp, get one of these issued to you and you legally have under the provisions of the Wildlife Act a licence authorizing you to lamp and shoot from a vehicle.

    Just a thought but check out the NPWS website.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 yubabill1


    were any fox shooters/lampers involved in this fcp sub-committee?

    sept-march covers the whole lambing season and fox fur is useless before cold weather comes.

    blanket ban to target deer poachers at foxing expense.

    banning sale of venison/issuing tags never came into it, I'm sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ DogfoxCork


    yubabill1 wrote: »
    were any fox shooters/lampers involved in this fcp sub-committee?

    sept-march covers the whole lambing season and fox fur is useless before cold weather comes.

    blanket ban to target deer poachers at foxing expense.

    banning sale of venison/issuing tags never came into it, I'm sure.

    I cant believe how the introduction of a tag system wasnt their first choice, by far the easiest option and is demonstrated to work very well in the US. Also the best way to survey numbers shot


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ cavan shooter


    Looking for tags like in the states won't happen here because that will cost the deer shooting community whose representatives pushed this through money..instead they demonise legitimate shooters to "protect" their sport. It's very pointed read the report..they excluded the NARGC because it has nothing to do with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭ grassroot1


    I am at a loss to know why the FCP is discussing nightime shooting it has nothing at all to do with firearms law as it is currently a legal activity. I feel nightime shooting is being confused with a number of issues.
    1. Poaching of deer.
    2. Rural crime
    3. Unauthorised trespass on farmland.
    None of these issues are relevant to the FCP as they can only be solved by the enforcing of the law by the GARDAI in conjunction with NPWS and relevant landowners.
    To hold up the owners of legally held firearms as being somehow part of this issue is shameful and does nothing to solve the problem.
    My understanding of the idea of the FCP was to discuss and solve issues relevant to firearms licensing and use.
    I hope that in future it will stick to these issues and avoid the costly litigation that has dogged firearms and there use in Ireland for years.
    ANY FURTHER RESTRICTIONS ON FIREARM USE IS UNACCEPTABLE.
    ANY LICIENCING FOR NIGHTIME SHOOTING IS UNACCEPTABLE.
    ANY REQUIREMENT TO INFORM THE AUTHORITIES THAT OWNERS OF LEGALLY HELD FIREARMS ARE GOING ABOUT THE SPORT IS UNACCEPTABLE.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Tags and Deer Hunting

    What use are tags - tags in the US are a conversation method for legitimate hunters - poaching still goes on there.

    Issue tags here, for what? There are two premise for poaching deer here-

    1. The unrecorded sale of deer for consumption - provided by individuals poaching / hunting deer, some with licenses, some maybe with unlicensed firearms. These people are either selling meat to individuals or unscrupulous business out of the back of their cars.

    2.The recorded sale of venison - during the season any deer presented to the game dealer can be judged as legitimate once the Hunter has the required documentation. The dealer in fairness won't know when or how the animal was shot.

    Out of season requires further documentation. So in fact, weather it's in season or out there is system, if not a tag system but a record of who shot what, where and when. It is common practice through out the UK for wild game meat to sold into the food chain why should it not be so here. Banning the sale of wild venison will not stop the poaching.
    Legitimate hunters have nothing to fear but bureaucracy, but it is those acting completely outside of the law that are hard to trace.


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