NIGHT SHOOTING

dto001

"Hi Diarmuid there is only a report and recommendations at the moment nothing has been agreeded. We are currently working on a response. We want no curfew to be imposed and will also seek other changes to the code of conduct."

This is the response I got from countryside alliance Ireland on Facebook. I thought they were part of the Sports coalition? I have still to hear from the Nargc
Not sure what other changes they are looking for!

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

All I have to say on this is..REF Irish IPSC debacle for sell outs,looking down noses,collusion etc and apply to this situation.

Amen to that. A brazen and shocking example of "pull up the ladder jack, i'm alright".

Nekarsulm

Cass wrote: »

One thing that bothers me, and i wanted this in a separate post to see if i can get an answer.

Surely the people that make up the groups within the SC are members or participants of other sports. I shoot long range, but also clays, game, pistol, etc. So i wouldn't fit into one category and if someone tried to destroy one of the sports i take part in i'd be as upset about that one as all of them.

My point is surely there are those within the deer associations that also shoot foxes/hunt at night. Same as when the SC asked for a ban on pistols under 5" and semi autos, or the NASRPC tried to grab control of all pistol shooting and ban Glocks. Surely some on within the groups have these firearms and would be affected by it.

• Why are they not speaking up?
• Are they not being told?
• Does it not concern them when they find out that this is happening "in their name"?
• Why do they continue to stand for it?

Well as far as I can see, Sean Gilliland is listed as a S.C. member on the FCP, and I believe that is the same Sean Gilliland who runs a clay range up in Monaghan.
He is also a Fine Gael County Councillor for Monaghan, so is easy contacted.
https://www.finegael.ie/our-people/councillors/monaghan/ballybay-clones/sean-gilliland/

(If it is a different Sean Gilliland, then I sincerely apologise)
So considering the numbers of shooters who pay good money to shoot at his grounds, as well as buy guns, clays, traps etc, you would think he would rather not alienate those who do a bit of foxing, etc.

Or those who vote for him!

Cass

dto001 wrote: »

I thought they were part of the Sports coalition?

According the SC's website there are currently seven members:

1. WA1500
2. Irish Bullseye
3. Federation of Irish Salmon and Sea Trout Anglers
4. IFDA - Irish Firearms Dealers Association
5. Range operators association of Ireland
6. ICPSA - Irish Clay Pigeon Shooting Association
7. NSAI - National Silhouette Association of Ireland

These seven had their own working group within the FCP, which include the WDAI, IDS, AGS, NPWS, or at least that is my taking based on the wording of the document and the fact the other members of the FCP did not know about it.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

These seven had their own working group within the FCP, which include the WDAI, IDS, AGS, NPWS, or at least that is my taking based on the wording of the document and the fact the other members of the FCP did not know about it.[/QUOTE]

Not a great business model is it? One section of the FCP working on proposals and not telling another section of the FCP about it. Is that what happened or am I misunderstanding your post above?

Cass

From the document:

This best practice guidance has been drawn up by a working group of the FCP. The WG comprises of representatives or written inputs from AGS, IFA, NPWS, SC, IDS and WDAI.

See Appendix 1.

I read this as a working group "of" or "within" the FCP comprising of the above named groups who got together and drew up this.

The fact the NARGC did not know about it, and i hasten to guess neither do the NASRPC, or any other group within the FCP would show that they took this upon themselves without the knowledge or what can only be described as the majority of the FCP.

Hence my comment and Sparks' earlier about this not being the work of the FCP, but will most likely be bastardised as such.

Backbarrel

Cass wrote: »

From the document:



I read this as a working group "of" or "within" the FCP comprising of the above named groups who got together and drew up this.

The fact the NARGC did not know about it, and i hasten to guess neither do the NASRPC, or any other group within the FCP would show that they took this upon themselves without the knowledge or what can only be described as the majority of the FCP.

Hence my comment and Sparks' earlier about this not being the work of the FCP, but will most likely be bastardised as such.

I accept the point that it is not the work of the FCP but certain individuals attending.

I imagine the gardai and NPWS nudging each other going "Did they just propose that ?" Happy days..

Smacks of a solo run by certain people for the benefit of some ..

Expect 11th hour about face by an individual that will attempt to claim moral high ground and say "This is why I am needed".

And he can go F#@k himself....

Cass

What i'm waiting for is one or all of the following:

• No immediate press release by the SC
• No immediate press release by the deer crowds
• Statement in the next week discussing the meeting, but ignoring the fact it took place
• Ignoring the calls from members of the various groups involved for a meeting/EGM to discuss why this happened
• Media/Social media blackout
• In a couple of weeks a statement as to why they sought this, and why we (the great unwashed as some like to put it) did not need to know and why what they are doing is in the best interests of shooting.
• Continued ignoring for them to explain themselves
• More back handed dealings that we will only find out about at a later date.

When are we going to wake and stop these people from being in a position to screw us over. In the last ten years we've seen a plethora of such goings on. Time and again the same people or same type of people emerge to do the same crap to their own. Each time it's brought up we're told its in the past and to move on. This ignorance of the past only dooms us to repeat it. It's bad enough we have to fight for what little we have, but to have to continuously fight our own too.

Its about time they learned such actions have consequences. If they try to throw us under a bus, drive the fecking bus over them. :mad::mad::mad:

Hold them to account. Stop supporting them. Make them realise they represent us, the majority, not their own minority views.

Backbarrel

Cass wrote: »

Again i don't want to derail the thread, but the NARGC used to sit on the FCP, so the notion that the SC was founded out of some "heroic" attempt to fight for the "little man" is badly mistaken..

Founded by the little man not for the little man?

Cass wrote: »

My point is, and i'm really not out on a witch hunt, but the NARGC created this beast when there was no need. They have since seen sense and left it, but now it's rudderless, a shadow of it's former self, but still as dangerous because now they are still continuing with the secret proposals, hidden agenda and as this latest debacle shows working in secret with other groups WITHIN the FCP to undermine everyone else (including the rest of the FCP members).

IOW this is not the FCP, but the Sports Coalition once again creating a problem that previously did not exist.

I would like make it abundantly clear that i am not attacking the NARGC as it is NOW. With a new committee, chair, etc they have once again returned to the proper path and it's great to have their vote/power on the right side.

Have to agree with this.

Chairman and Executive elected in October 2015 asked some hard questions about S.C. and very few answers were forthcoming.

This organisation supposedly representing NARGC would not tell NARGC what was happening at FCP...

Once Darth Fiscal and the finance committee got a hold on things the Sports Coalitions days were numbered.. or at least NARGCs involvement in it..

BattleCorp

Just in case they don't already know about these proposals, I've emailed the IFA and sent them the FCP report.

Lets see if they'll get their finger out seeing as they are the most powerful shooting body in the country and it will mostly affect their members.

Cass

Wonder how sympathetic they'll be given proposal two years back.

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

Wonder how sympathetic they'll be given proposal two years back.

They can't really afford not to be sympathetic seeing as this affects most of their members.

dto001

Here's another nail in the coffin probably needs another thread but it's from the same crowd or at least the Deer Alliance as they have it on their page:
Here's the quote from the deer license application form:

The application form seeks information on whether you have a Certificate of Competency appropriate for the Republic of Ireland such as the ‘Hunter Competence Assessment Programme (HCAP)’ or equivalent in respect of firearms and matters relating to wild deer. This question is asked in response to a recommendation to the Department that certification from an accredited source in knowledge of wild deer species, disease recognition, management, culling and safe methods of control, together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer; and that mandatory certification be introduced on a phased basis over a five year period commencing on the 1st day of January 2018 for existing holders of deer hunting licences, and with immediate effect from the same date for all new applicants for deer hunting licences.

Just to add petrol to the fire!!

Cass

Thread on it over in hunting.

dto001

Just got a reply from the IFA:

This is not a curfew it is simply a guideline. It will not impact on Predator control and where we see that it potentially could we will be speaking out against such.

Regards,

Marcus O’Halloran

Looks like they agree with it.

Anyone heard anything yet?

BattleCorp

dto001 wrote: »

Just got a reply from the IFA:

This is not a curfew it is simply a guideline. It will not impact on Predator control and where we see that it potentially could we will be speaking out against such.

Regards,

Marcus O’Halloran

Looks like they agree with it.

Anyone heard anything yet?

I think they need to read the document again.

Nekarsulm

dto001 wrote: »

Just got a reply from the IFA:

This is not a curfew it is simply a guideline. It will not impact on Predator control and where we see that it potentially could we will be speaking out against such.

Regards,

Marcus O’Halloran

Looks like they agree with it.

Anyone heard anything yet?

No good the IFA "speaking out against such" after the event.
Especially when they are involved in creating such "guidelines".
How can a ban on shooting during hours of darkness be anything other than a curfew?

Cass

Lads i've split the deer stuff into the deer thread and moved that thread from hunting to the main shooting forum.

Both topics are linked, but for ease of reading try and keep responses about the deer in the deer thread - HERE - and responses to the shooting at night crap on this thread.

Cheers.

berettaman

Well lads,

Early rumour is that it is stopped for now, Gone from being a "done deal" to back on the table for discussion.(Can firmly kicked down road)..

Rumour is that stopped by NARGC with support from IFA, CA and WDA.

Credit credit must go to Mick Fenlon NARGC Chairman (and avid deer shooter) and Chris Gavican Compensation Fund Administrator for their efforts there today.

I am told they have worked on nothing else for the last 7 days.

Credit where its due for those that supported the reversal of these guidelines.

Fair play to everyone on here that did their bit- Don't effin stop now!!

gunny123

berettaman wrote: »

Well lads,

Early rumour is that it is stopped for now, Gone from being a "done deal" to back on the table for discussion.(Can firmly kicked down road)..

Rumour is that stopped by NARGC with support from IFA, CA and WDA.

Credit credit must go to Mick Fenlon NARGC Chairman (and avid deer shooter) and Chris Gavican Compensation Fund Administrator for their efforts there today.

I am told they have worked on nothing else for the last 7 days.

Credit where its due for those that supported the reversal of these guidelines.

Fair play to everyone on here that did their bit- Don't effin stop now!!

Great, have the name or names of those who dreamt this crap up been released ? I'd like to know who they are.

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote:

Great, have the name or names of those who dreamt this crap up been released ? I'd like to know who they are.

Name and shame.

cavan shooter

I hope there is a statement from the NARGC on this alone with the CA and WDA. Differences aside maybe we are looking at new age of co-operation. Well done to all who pushed hard, I'm sure we on Boards played our part.......any other rows need fixing..ðŸ˜

LONG DRAG

cavan shooter wrote: »

I hope there is a statement from the NARGC on this alone with the CA and WDA. Differences aside maybe we are looking at new age of co-operation. Well done to all who pushed hard, I'm sure we on Boards played our part.......any other rows need fixing..ðŸ˜

Grizzly 45

Am wondering is this and the deer issue,kite flying exercises as well?? Send up some idea and see if it attracts flack.If it does ,reel it in again and have another crack at it when we have sorted out all the objections to our[the original proposers] specific need??

cavan shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote:

Am wondering is this and the deer issue,kite flying exercises as well?? Send up some idea and see if it attracts flack.If it does ,reel it in again and have another crack at it when we have sorted out all the objections to our[the original proposers] specific need??

No...I think this was a serious attempt at ****ing the ordinary shooting guy over and I think embarrass the new order in the NARGC.

There is other stuff coming down the track that needs to be looked out for as said in the posts

I was chatting to our County Secretary he had sent letters to Heather Humphries and Francis Fitzgerald as well as the NARGC. Now if every County did similar by now they'd be realing and might be thinking twice of trying it again.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the FCP meeting. I wonder could you bug it....

Backbarrel

I am hearing that the sports coalition backed these proposals today..what the actual f#@k..?

Irish Deer Society supported.. wtf?

I know who floated it but I may check with my legal people...

Backbarrel

I am hearing that the sports coalition backed these proposals today..what the actual f#@k..?

Irish Deer Society supported.. wtf?

I know who floated it but I may check with my legal people...

Nekarsulm

cavan shooter wrote: »

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the FCP meeting. I wonder could you bug it....

Can we request a copy of the minutes under a FOI query?

cavan shooter

Nekarsulm wrote:

Can we request a copy of the minutes under a FOI query?

They will be available through NARGC I suppose at the GB meeting.

cavan shooter

Backbarrel wrote:

I am hearing that the sports coalition backed these proposals today..what the actual f#@k..?

Off Course they did...it takes leadership, moral fibre and courage to say I got it wrong......they are three qualities that the Sports Coalition lack in Spades.

Wait for the next haymaker and it's around "competency of shooters"

gunny123

cavan shooter wrote: »

Off Course they did...it takes leadership, moral fibre and courage to say I got it wrong......they are three qualities that the Sports Coalition lack in Spades.

Wait for the next haymaker and it's around "competency of shooters"

They didn't get it wrong though, they want to do this and would have done so if everyone didn't kick up a stink. Whoever it was should be run down the road imho.

Cass

berettaman wrote: »

Well lads,

Early rumour is that it is stopped for now, Gone from being a "done deal" to back on the table for discussion.(Can firmly kicked down road)..

Had the good fortune today to bump into a rep that sits on the FCP. Paraphrasing here:

"While they are proposals its a live document. Counter proposals to them can be submitted, via your FCP rep (to keep it organised and not 100s of individual ones). Nothing is done and nothing is set in stone.

The overwheling response from the other reps (not the ones that penned this) was no way. No particular interest from AGS to impose any such "ban".
"

So the next meeting is in July. All submissions of your own, or counter to these proposals should be sent to your FCP rep. The rep will then summarise all the proposals into point form. This way you don't have to go through 100's of proposals reading the same thing over and over. You rep will then submit these for discussion at the next meeting in July.

Fair play to everyone on here that did their bit- Don't effin stop now!!

Exactly. A million times this. Our voices were heard and now is the time to up the ante and keep the pressure on.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Am wondering is this and the deer issue,kite flying exercises as well?? Send up some idea and see if it attracts flack.If it does ,reel it in again and have another crack at it when we have sorted out all the objections to our[the original proposers] specific need??

As above it was a serious proposal, but as a proposal still has a long way to go and many things can change, including the complete dismissal of them.

Zxthinger

Who's my FCP rep?
I don't belong to any club. I'm primarily a vermin shooter but I also a the holder of a deer hunting Licence.

I feel that the majority of lads with 223s, 17hmrs, 22mags, and a pile of 22lrs (but to mention a few) are generally 'Loners'

They are affiliated with no groups or no NGB.

The only affiliation I have is with my insurance company the IFA..

But there are many that don't bother with shooting insurance.


Is it time for Vermin Shooters to form a collective that represents their as of yet unheard voices.

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the FCP meeting. I wonder could you bug it....

Be a challenge.But not impossible They do occasionally sweep govt offices and conference rooms with an outside counter surveillance team.. Would be very,very naughty to do so and useless and illegal to use the info in any shape or form,and rather old school these days to be sneaking about the place in a black polo and pants in the dead of night,[with or without you box of milk tray chocs] when you just maybe send Frannie or whomever on the FCP a covert text with a virus that takes over your I phone.But as a bucket list and a "fk you I just did it for the craic,and to show up your systems weakness" event..Priceless.

Cass

Zxthinger wrote: »

Who's my FCP rep?
I don't belong to any club. I'm primarily a vermin shooter but I also a the holder of a deer hunting Licence.

If you're not a member of an NGB, group, organisation or association then don't worry, you STILL have a voice.

You can send in your proposals or letter against the current ones. Send them to the various bodies. Multiple ones if you feel the need.

The only reason for asking to send it to your rep is that the rep can take the 50, 100, 200 proposals they get, list the amount of people that contacted him/her and then condense all the arguments contained within them into one cohesive argument.

If you don't belong it does NOT in any way, shape or form diminish the value of your opinion or input and for the love of God don't not send one in because you think it won't make a difference or because you're not a member of a group.

Is it time for Vermin Shooters to for a collective that represents there as of yet unheard voices.

It may not be a bad idea. One thing you'd need to consider is how many people are members of multiple groups and so are actually covered by a rep. I know i'm a member of a couple, but i'll write to the one i frequent most.

220,000 or so license with an estimated 140,000 people. NARGC, IFA, NASRPC, NRAI, CAI, and the rest of the bodies would make up quite a large amount of those. Probably in the 120,000+ mark.

So still leaves a large number (considering those estimates are anywhere realistic) without representation. SEt up a non profit, acquire insurance, have everyone join, then you're on the right path. Not sure how doable it is in a relatively short time frame, but doable none the less.

Cass

By the way peoples i meant to say this earlier, but with the hustle of the last few days i never got around to saying it.

Well done to everyone.

The events of the last few days shows just how effective the shooting community can be when we actually pool our resources and stand together. Our voices were heard and our message was loud and clear. We will not tolerate any attack on our sport, especially from within.

Some might think this is over but it's not. The proposals are still live and we need to step up our writing campaign. Contact anyone and everyone you know and let them know what is happening. Keep the pressure on and make those responsible for such proposals listen to what we have to say.

If you don't want to write a letter you can print of sheets of paper, get your club members, friends, etc to sign it and send in your petition.


Again though, excellent work by everyone.

BattleCorp

Zxthinger wrote: »

The only affiliation I have is with my insurance company the IFA..

And judging by their response, they don't seem to be doing too much to counter these proposals.

Nekarsulm

BattleCorp wrote: »

And judging by their response, they don't seem to be doing too much to counter these proposals.

No reply yet from the IFA "Countryside" to my email.

EDIT.....

With friends like this, who needs enemies......

http://www.clarechampion.ie/illegal-deer-lamping-a-dangerous-practice/

BattleCorp

Nekarsulm wrote: »

No reply yet from the IFA "Countryside" to my email.

EDIT.....

With friends like this, who needs enemies......

http://www.clarechampion.ie/illegal-deer-lamping-a-dangerous-practice/

Am I reading this right or did I misread the article? That IFA spokesman reckons that apart from the illegality of it, shooting deer at night is dangerous but shooting at foxes at night isn't?

And this is the guy who is the IFA rep on the FCP?

Fcuk.

Nekarsulm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Am I reading this right or did I misread the article? That IFA spokesman reckons that apart from the illegality of it, shooting deer at night is dangerous but shooting at foxes at night isn't?

And this is the guy who is the IFA rep on the FCP?

Fcuk.

Same guy who wanted the law changed, so that all 160 fully auto center-fire rifles in private hands could be confiscated by the Gardai ..........

And he thinks that the majority of fox shooting at night is currently with a shotgun ...

Cass

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Same guy who wanted the law changed, so that all 160 fully auto center-fire rifles in private hands could be confiscated by the Gardai ..........

Yeah, illegal category A, prohibited firearms, but there are 160 of them registered in the state. :rolleyes:

Nekarsulm

Cass wrote: »

Yeah, illegal category A, prohibited firearms, but there are 160 of them registered in the state. :rolleyes:

Yep, those are the ones he was convinced existed, and wanted taken out of circulation!

Grizzly 45

A plus twos and checked shirt type who cant figure out that a semi auto shotgun which he has ,is NOT capable of full auto fire,but somehow semi auto rifles in centrefire can do full auto.:rolleyes:

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A plus twos and checked shirt type who cant figure out that a semi auto shotgun which he has ,is NOT capable of full auto fire,but somehow semi auto rifles in centrefire can do full auto.:rolleyes:

Two semi auto shotguns......

Grizzly 45

Even feckin worse!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

J.R.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

And he thinks that the majority of fox shooting at night is currently with a shotgun ...

.............capable of firing accurately at foxes out to 80 - 100yards!!!!!!!!

Grizzly 45

Found these two documents on another Irish shooting board.Might beof help to those planning some letter writing or door stepping in the future days?

grassroot1

BattleCorp wrote: »

Am I reading this right or did I misread the article? That IFA spokesman reckons that apart from the illegality of it, shooting deer at night is dangerous but shooting at foxes at night isn't?

And this is the guy who is the IFA rep on the FCP?

Fcuk.

I dont think he is not the FCP rep and as far as I know he has retired on health grounds

gunny123

BattleCorp wrote: »

Am I reading this right or did I misread the article? That IFA spokesman reckons that apart from the illegality of it, shooting deer at night is dangerous but shooting at foxes at night isn't?

And this is the guy who is the IFA rep on the FCP?

Fcuk.

There is one in every village .............................

wirehairmax

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Cavan Shooter

The safe pass for shooters........i was told it's being pushed by a shooting rep who has formed a training company...........

Any connection to this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057428330