Wives... were you glad pubs weren't open today

One eyed Jack

bubblypop wrote: »

This is such bull**** jack!

Basically you think that any married ( or otherwise) couple question their relationship on here, that everyone else is wrong, the couple do what is right for them?

Unfortunately, that's not really life, there are many many couples that live in a disfunctional relationship. And they may think it's right. Many people don't know they are in a disfunctional or abusive relationship until they know about others relationships

You appear to be constantly misinterpreting posts, I don't know why, but I never suggested that anyone who questions their relationship on here (or anywhere else for that matter), that the advice they are offered or receive is either wrong or right. It's up to the person themselves to make that determination, and yes that is real life, where mentally competent adults make decisions for themselves every day, day in, day out.

It's true that many people aren't aware they're in dysfunctional or abusive relationships until they actually come to that conclusion themselves, and I've met many, actually I've met countless numbers of people in what I would consider to be dysfunctional, abusive relationships, but, for me, the more important thing is whether they are actually happy, or not, as the case may be. In those relationships which I may consider to be unhealthy, abusive, dysfunctional, etc, I also consider whether I actually have any right to interfere in them, if the people in that relationship are actually happy to be in that relationship.

The reason I consider the importance of this is because I would never see it as my right to tell someone who appears to be happy, that they shouldn't be happy, that I know them better than they do and my standards are what they should be aiming to achieve. I don't think anyone should ever try to live up to someone else's standards, because they're essentially setting themselves up for failure. They can't be someone else, and they can't be in someone else's relationship, because they aren't those people. Lest I need to state the obvious - every individuals perceptions are influenced by how they process their own experiences, and when you meet enough people, the one thing you come to understand is that there absolutely is no "normal", because normal will always be an aspirational standard that does not, and cannot, apply universally at an individual level.

TL;DR - Ignorance really is bliss. That's why now in the West with the development and growth of our Information Society, there are also rising levels of people experiencing depression and mental health issues, because the less they are ignorant of that which is outside their own bubble, the more they perceive how much happier they could be if they had a different life, someone else's real life. This causes them even greater dissatisfaction with their lives which can lead to ill mental health. Social media anxiety is now actually a thing, with people being envious of what they perceive to be other people's success that they lack, or people with their head buried in their mobile devices lest they miss an update, or an email, or don't reply in time to an email or a message, or are waiting for a response to a message or an update they sent, or are envious of the likes and validation that other people get that they don't, so they modify their opinions and behaviours accordingly in the hope of gaining more likes and validation among their peers, which leads to greater cognitive dissonance between their privately held beliefs, and their publicly expressed opinions or behaviours.

Genuinely I could write a thesis on this stuff, but I won't as I just don't think anyone would be all that interested (leaving aside the fact that it's likely to be misinterpreted anyway), hell it's generally mind numbingly boring common sense for most people that as adults with any sort of life experience outside their own bubble, they should be aware of anyway.

Well the OP seemed to think her life was supposed to be ****.
I'm glad she posted because as least she knows there is more to life than what she puts up with.

infogiver

endacl wrote: »

Two questions, OP....

1. How did you manage to post from the 1970s?
2. No. That's it. How did you post here from decades ago?!?

If you think hubbys like the OPs disappeared with the 70s your sadly mistaken.

Aimeee

mockingjay wrote: »

Thank you - In a way I'm glad in a way I made it too - for me and for others that may be following it.... I still find it a bit hard to believe I'm one of very few women in Ireland that experience this...

I can assure you are not one of very few women experiencing this. A good few of my friends (& their sisters) have similar weekend situation. It was a shock to me when I heard a few of them giving out about it one night. Another was upset for her sister whose husband did the pub thing every Friday night. I really think women don't talk about it much as sometimes it's not worth rocking the boat or maybe it's one of those ways of trundling through married life with kids and all that entails. The women usually take on all the responsibilities you mentioned re the kids/activities/ferrying to and fro etc.
Interesting thread OP and hope you get your hubby more at the weekends from now on. Maybe he realised himself how much better this weekend was with the family?

ChikiChiki

I think given that for most the social scene revolves around the pub in Ireland it can be hard to let go of that when the kids come along. Kids are a lot of work and lets face it can be annoying little ****s at time. To put it bluntly, I think when some choose the pub, subconciously they are escaping away from that.

DEFTLEFTHAND

You sound like the best wife ever mockingjay. Men would kill for a wife like you.

Understanding of the mans need for space and time spent with friends (other males)

You see things that most other girls don't see.

Bless you.

Mr.Wemmick

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You sound like the best wife ever mockingjay. Men would kill for a wife like you.

Understanding of the mans need for space and time spent with friends (other males)

You see things that most other girls don't see.

Bless you.

All the girls see you now.. happy days! Queuing up, they will. To work, serve, wait, while you're off to have your space and see your friends.

Lucky ladies.

The queue must be miles long. Bless you.

Estrellita

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think given that for most the social scene revolves around the pub in Ireland

That's an excuse that's used far too often. Its okay because everyone else does it. A person's social life can involve as much or as little of the pub as they want it to. I realise of course your comment is probably general and you're not referring to yourself at all. But I thought I'd raise the point anyway.

There are plenty of other things you can be doing other than drinking. If all your friends social lives revolve around the pub too, then maybe that should be looked at. You choose your own social circles, and if that's all your mates are interested in doing then maybe they are more drinking buddies than anything else.

it can be hard to let go of that when the kids come along. Kids are a lot of work and lets face it can be annoying little ****s at time. To put it bluntly, I think when some choose the pub, subconciously they are escaping away from that.

That's pretty unhealthy it has to be said. Children can be hard work, but driving you to drink hard work? Nah. Again, there are healthier ways of blowing off steam. Walk it off. Go for a nice swim on your own. See a family member or a friend for a coffee. Go watch something in the cinema.

Again, everyone is entitled to a drink. I'm not a tee-totaller myself, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. The pub doesn't have to be the go-to place to de-stress, there are healthier ways of managing life's pressures.

ChikiChiki

Estrellita wrote: »

That's an excuse that's used far too often. Its okay because everyone else does it. A person's social life can involve as much or as little of the pub as they want it to. I realise of course your comment is probably general and you're not referring to yourself at all. But I thought I'd raise the point anyway.

There are plenty of other things you can be doing other than drinking. If all your friends social lives revolve around the pub too, then maybe that should be looked at. You choose your own social circles, and if that's all your mates are interested in doing then maybe they are more drinking buddies than anything else.




That's pretty unhealthy it has to be said. Children can be hard work, but driving you to drink hard work? Nah. Again, there are healthier ways of blowing off steam. Walk it off. Go for a nice swim on your own. See a family member or a friend for a coffee. Go watch something in the cinema.

Again, everyone is entitled to a drink. I'm not a tee-totaller myself, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. The pub doesn't have to be the go-to place to de-stress, there are healthier ways of managing life's pressures.

Im not reffering to myself at all. Its how I see things in society. As i mentioned earlier in the thread, people do not realise the effects heavy drinking has on their children as they grow into adults. If they did, they might rethink their habits.

I've learned a lot from my childhood to not have alcohol within an asses roar of my future children's upbringing.

Estrellita

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Im not reffering to myself at all. Its how I see things in society. As i mentioned earlier in the thread, people do not realise the effects heavy drinking has on their children as they grow into adults. If they did, they might rethink their habits.

I didn't think you were and I agree with you. Most would rather stick their head in the sand than face that reality.

mockingjay

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You sound like the best wife ever mockingjay. Men would kill for a wife like you.

Understanding of the mans need for space and time spent with friends (other males)

You see things that most other girls don't see.

Bless you.

Ha... Ha... I see the light now!

Mr.Wemmick

infogiver wrote: »

If you think hubbys like the OPs disappeared with the 70s your sadly mistaken.

This thread certainly has opened my eyes. The social conditioning which encourages females to accept the inequality of their lives/their lot as normal is obviously alive and well as much as the conditioning I have which is the exact opposite.

But so many men I know - who also fully accept work/ social fairness with women in their lives, their sisters and mothers as much as their wives and girlfriends - are mostly modern and up-to-date in their thinking. I honestly thought that the traditional roles of females and males was more or less done with, how wrong was I.

suicide_circus

Traditionalists are oppressed.

mockingjay

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

The fact the kids are teens changes things a lot, I don't see much issue with two regular nights out compared to if they were young children. They don't need minding and really can't see them needing any hand holding at their sporting events. It should really be drop off and pick up after. Also no babysitters required so the op can go out herself too. It's a very different picture.

Apologies if I misled anyone, I always call them my kids - I suppose we're not really in the habit of saying 'my teens' - but they'll always be my kids xx

However, Teens are my business remember, so I think it is more important for someone to be around during weekend nights to keep an eye on them, to know where they are, or for them to know that when they come in a parent is sober - they'll get up to less. The pitches are about 2km-3km drive from our house, so it doesn't make sense to drive 10 mins to drop, go home for 40 mins, and drive 10 mins back, this is where I meet the other parents for a chat usually - so it can also be my form of socialising - the matches are all over the place on Saturdays and Sundays, the driving has to be done and someone has to support the team!

meeeeh

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

This thread certainly has opened my eyes. The social conditioning which encourages females to accept the inequality of their lives/their lot as normal is obviously alive and well as much as the conditioning I have which is the exact opposite.

What a nice smug condemnation of women that don't have the same domestic arrangements as you find acceptable. Tell me is it nice to feel superior to others?

Chuchote

mockingjay wrote: »

Apologies if I misled anyone, I always call them my kids - I suppose we're not really in the habit of saying 'my teens' - but they'll always be my kids xx

However, Teens are my business remember, so I think it is more important for someone to be around during weekend nights to keep an eye on them, to know where they are, or for them to know that when they come in a parent is sober - they'll get up to less. The pitches are about 2km-3km drive from our house, so it doesn't make sense to drive 10 mins to drop, go home for 40 mins, and drive 10 mins back, this is where I meet the other parents for a chat usually - so it can also be my form of socialising - the matches are all over the place on Saturdays and Sundays, the driving has to be done and someone has to support the team!

Would you not cycle together? 3km is a nice 20-minute bike ride!

infogiver

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think given that for most the social scene revolves around the pub in Ireland it can be hard to let go of that when the kids come along. Kids are a lot of work and lets face it can be annoying little ****s at time. To put it bluntly, I think when some choose the pub, subconciously they are escaping away from that.

Your kids didn't ask to be born. "Annoying little ****s" ? Too much like hard work you mean. Wether your a man or a woman, going to pub on Friday night after work and rendering yourself unfit to be a parent on Saturday, leaving all the parenting to the other person makes you a complete c**t in my book and anyone who does it is a complete deadbeat.

Estrellita

mockingjay wrote: »

I think it is more important for someone to be around during weekend nights to keep an eye on them, to know where they are, or for them to know that when they come in a parent is sober - they'll get up to less.

You are a responsible parent, and you're exactly right. I have teenagers myself. Some people think that the role of a parent is lightened just because you don't have to change nappies or feed bottles any more. Teenagers need you more on an emotional and supportive level, as well as guidance through some tough times during those years. You can't take your eye off the ball.

It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job with your kids (I call them kids too!). It would be nice to see your husband a little bit more on board though, for the kids and you of course

infogiver

My teenager is nearly 20 and needs me more now then she ever did. I for one intend to see this out till the end, whenever that will be.

Mr.Wemmick

meeeeh wrote: »

What a nice smug condemnation of women that don't have the same domestic arrangements as you find acceptable. Tell me is it nice to feel superior to others?

Yay! The assumptions and bias are off to a good start today.. pray tell, inequality is a domestic arrangement is it? How does that work then.. women who stay/work at home are treated unequally, is that what you're saying? You have a very poor idea of men if you think they're all out there treating women disrespectfully, because they are not.

What on earth has domestic arrangements to do with anything?

Smug and superior? I think that's you, mate! With a thick dose of prejudice thrown in for good measure :rolleyes:

mockingjay

meeeeh wrote: »

What a nice smug condemnation of women that don't have the same domestic arrangements as you find acceptable. Tell me is it nice to feel superior to others?

I don't think it's meant to be taken that way, Mr. Wemmick has followed the thread through and given some lovely encouragement.

meeeeh

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Yay! The assumptions and bias are off to a good start today.. pray tell, inequality is a domestic arrangement is it? How does that work then.. women who stay/work at home are treated unequally, is that what you're saying? You have a very poor idea of men if you think they're all out there treating women disrespectfully, because they are not.

What on earth has domestic arrangements to do with anything?

Smug and superior? I think that's you, mate! With a thick dose of prejudice thrown in for good measure :rolleyes:

No I am saying that you are judging women who put up with stuff you feel is unacceptable. Your feel superior to them, your post was full of that. That is all.

BTW I am not a mate.

meeeeh

mockingjay wrote: »

I don't think it's meant to be taken that way, Mr. Wemmick has followed the thread through and given some lovely encouragement.

Fair enough, I just found that post very patronizing.

Mr.Wemmick

meeeeh wrote: »

No I am saying that you are judging women who put up with stuff you feel is unacceptable. Your feel superior to them, your post was full of that. That is all.

BTW I am not a mate.

Do not feel superior to any woman, man or child - never have and never will.

It's just ignorance on my behalf as I am not living with that inequality so not aware of it nor the effects of it. The reason why this thread is so brilliant as an eye opener, is all down to mockingjay's refreshing honesty, intelligence and good grace.

And, btw, no one should put up with inequality. Full stop. Why? Because it's not fair on anyone, especially kids (who will continue the social conditioning into the next generation, if we are not careful)

ChikiChiki

infogiver wrote: »

Your kids didn't ask to be born. "Annoying little ****s" ? Too much like hard work you mean. Wether your a man or a woman, going to pub on Friday night after work and rendering yourself unfit to be a parent on Saturday, leaving all the parenting to the other person makes you a complete c**t in my book and anyone who does it is a complete deadbeat.

Tone down the aggresion pal, to state again..... I dont have kids. Its how I see it with other people. They go to the pub on a regular basis to escape from family life failing to take on their responsibilities.

I do ****ing NOT condone it. Alcohol will never be in an asses roar of my future kids upbringing.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I do ****ing NOT condone it. Alcohol will never be in an asses roar of my future kids upbringing.

Why? Alcohol is part of everyday society not some taboo and bringing up kids in such a sheltered will do more harm than good.

myshirt

We have gone way too PC now. This is really getting out of control. Why can't we just see the wood from the trees and look at it for what it is - the man is having a few jars. It's nothing more than that and there's people on here stirring the sh't on what might be a good marriage. Come on guys.

Tigger99

Op I'm glad you've realised that the current situation is not healthy for a lot of reasons.

I've smiled at a few posters that suggest a few drinks of a weekend is normal. I suspect trying to justify their own drinking habits. If he's too hungover Saturday and Sunday from the two nights then he's putting back some amount of alcohol. The cost to his long term health never mind to the family budget or the time spent with his kids is hugely detrimental. I hope you can discuss this with him. You deserve a partner who you can spend time with on the weekend and is present in mind and body.

One eyed Jack

myshirt wrote: »

We have gone way too PC now. This is really getting out of control. Why can't we just see the wood from the trees and look at it for what it is - the man is having a few jars. It's nothing more than that and there's people on here stirring the sh't on what might be a good marriage. Come on guys.

It's nothing to do with anyone being politically correct or anything else. I thought the same as you too initially, and there's nothing at all wrong with a man having a few jars, but the OP who is this mans wife, isn't happy with the current circumstances in which she finds herself, and part of that is due to her shifting perception and realisation that her experience of her marriage isn't universal! Her circumstances are normal, the norm for many people who are married, but that doesn't make the OP feel any better about her situation, and that's the most important thing, is the OP's perspective of her own circumstances.

Of course it may well be a good marriage, and given they're together as long as they are, and the OP appeared to be content up to now, I wouldn't be encouraging any rash decisions, but the OP has said they've taken some pointers away from this thread, and if some of the opinions on this thread enable the OP and her husband an even better marriage, a great marriage, which works for both the OP and her husband and their family, well I couldn't say that was a bad outcome. I just have no idea what the outcome will be for the OP, but the only person who will be able to judge that for themselves is the OP herself and nobody else, because it is the OP who will experience any outcome of her own decisions, and none of us will.

Having said that, I would encourage the OP to explore other avenues too besides basing any decisions they make about their future and their relationship with their husband and the outcomes for their family, solely on the opinions of strangers on the internet.

R.D. aka MR.D

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

Why? Alcohol is part of everyday society not some taboo and bringing up kids in such a sheltered will do more harm than good.

Would you extend this to other drugs?

My husband is from a state where marijuana is legal. It's part of everyday society there now too. A friend of his smokes/vapes/ingests weed around his kids and I think it's despicable.

Adults, especially when they are around children, have no business being intoxicated whether it's from being drunk or high. Children need parents or carers with a clear mind.

I also find it disgusting when I see a child in a pub. But that's because I was dragged around every pub in county at one stage as a small child. It made me feel scared and uncomfortable. Even if I was eating my crisps or some oul fella was teaching me how to play dominios or some card game, I felt weird in my insides.

Is that my hang up? Sure! But if I had kids and choose not to expose them to that, then I wouldn't be sheltering them(the connotation being that I'm denying them something). I would be protecting them from what I know from experience is a very intimidating. When children are around drunk people, the unpredictability of the situation is not fair on them and can be very damaging.

Just so you don't accuse me of being a prude, I drink plenty and smoke weed but I would never in 100 years expose a child to that.

Winterlong

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Would you extend this to other drugs?

My husband is from a state where marijuana is legal. It's part of everyday society there now too. A friend of his smokes/vapes/ingests weed around his kids and I think it's despicable.

Adults, especially when they are around children, have no business being intoxicated whether it's from being drunk or high. Children need parents or carers with a clear mind.

I also find it disgusting when I see a child in a pub. But that's because I was dragged around every pub in county at one stage as a small child. It made me feel scared and uncomfortable. Even if I was eating my crisps or some oul fella was teaching me how to play dominios or some card game, I felt weird in my insides.

Is that my hang up? Sure! But if I had kids and choose not to expose them to that, then I wouldn't be sheltering them(the connotation being that I'm denying them something). I would be protecting them from what I know from experience is a very intimidating. When children are around drunk people, the unpredictability of the situation is not fair on them and can be very damaging.

Just so you don't accuse me of being a prude, I drink plenty and smoke weed but I would never in 100 years expose a child to that.

I agree with most of what you said but I dont see a problem bringing a child to a pub for an afternoon meal for example. I bring my own once a week for our 'boys time' together. But it is a meal and one drink and we would be out of there by seven. I dont want him seeing drunk people at his age (6).

R.D. aka MR.D

Winterlong wrote: »

I agree with most of what you said but I dont see a problem bringing a child to a pub for an afternoon meal for example. I bring my own once a week for our 'boys time' together. But it is a meal and one drink and we would be out of there by seven. I dont want him seeing drunk people at his age (6).

Yeah, I mean more when you are sitting there in the evening and the poor kids are running around bored or sitting there. They are surrounded by drunk people and you can tell nobody is really looking out for them.

Sitting and having a lunch especially when so many places are family friendly is totally different. I tend to avoid those pubs though!! :pac:

Tigger99

Tigger99 wrote: »

I've smiled at a few posters that suggest a few drinks of a weekend is normal.

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Would you extend this to other drugs?
.

No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. No comparison at all with drink which is a perfectly acceptable everyday thing for the vast majory of people and in no way something to hide away from children.

I spend lots of times in pubs as a child and have no bad memories at all, always had fun and mostly was there watching sport or if there was a band playing at night etc. I'd have no problem being kids to a pub to watch matches or if a few afternoon pints where in order of a nice day etc. Sure I've even already looked after relations kids both with having been drinking and being hungover on different occasions.

One eyed Jack

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

When children are around drunk people, the unpredictability of the situation is not fair on them and can be very damaging.

Just so you don't accuse me of being a prude, I drink plenty and smoke weed but I would never in 100 years expose a child to that.

I'm not going to accuse you of being a prude or anything else, because your opinion, given your experience, is understandable. I completely agree with you too that when children are around drunk people, the unpredictably of the situation can be very unfair on them (including situations where people are drunk in their own homes around children, as many more alcoholics tend to prefer to be where they can drink to excess out of sight of others), and can be very damaging, but I would apply that same logic to any situation in which children can find themselves, and the corollary of that being that for some children, it can also have an influence on their lives that can have a positive outcome on their lives as adults.

The circumstances and outcomes are dependent upon an almost infinite number of factors. For example my parents would never have touched a drop of alcohol, I never saw the inside of a pub until I was about 12 when I went to secondary school in town, my father smoked alright, and it was a generally repressive, fundamentalist sort of piousness and sheltered existence. It was all I knew up until I moved out of home at 16 and quite literally went off the rails completely, revelling in my new found independence, child in a candy store type stuff who wanted to experiment and experience and try everything. That sort of hedonism got very old very quickly, it was shìte basically - rollercoaster highs and lows and there's pretty much a decade of my life is pretty hazy!

I didn't want my child to experience that same childhood I had, and so I've often brought him to the pub for an Irish breakfast for myself, continental breakfast for him, and we'll go for a family meal on a Sunday, or when I go visiting friends who would be shall we say on the lower socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder spectrum, I'll take him with me (not so much any more since my wife and I separated), but all of these experiences take the "taboo" out of what would normally make these experiences attractive to a young man.

He learns that it takes all sorts of people to make a society and tolerance and understanding of other people who are different to him or live their lives by different standards, beliefs, etc, and he has learned to embrace diversity and understanding of other people and cultures which are different to his own, so he doesn't grow up with an irrational fear of people and circumstances that he may not have any experience of, and he doesn't grow up with an overwhelming curiosity and desire to submerge himself in things which may or may not be detrimental to his mental health, welfare or general well-being.

My wife influences him in other ways too, it's not like I raised him on my own, and she would have shown him other perspectives which all-in-all make him a more rounded person who is quite mature for his age in a lot of ways, but he still understands and relates well to and plays with other children his own age from all sorts of diverse backgrounds, and they are as influenced by him, as he is by them.

The point being really that extremes of any point of view may well be understandable if one understands the influencing factors behind them, but it doesn't automatically make one point of view right and another one wrong. It depends as I said on an infinite number of factors, just like the outcome of the OP's circumstances will be dependent upon an infinite number of factors, only a mere handful of which we're privy to here, hence why I advised that the only person who is in the best position to make decisions for themselves is the OP themselves. If I were the OP I'd still be reserving judgement on any course of action until I had given myself time to process such a rude awakening.

Tigger99

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

You are missing the point, perhaps on purpose. Describing two heavy sessions every weekend as just a few drinks is trying to minimise a huge amount of drinking.

I think that kind of drinking can be quite normal for problem drinkers or perhaps those who depend on lots and lots of alcohol to enjoy themselves.

Electric Sheep

mockingjay wrote: »

Apologies if I misled anyone, I always call them my kids - I suppose we're not really in the habit of saying 'my teens' - but they'll always be my kids xx

However, Teens are my business remember, so I think it is more important for someone to be around during weekend nights to keep an eye on them, to know where they are, or for them to know that when they come in a parent is sober - they'll get up to less. The pitches are about 2km-3km drive from our house, so it doesn't make sense to drive 10 mins to drop, go home for 40 mins, and drive 10 mins back, this is where I meet the other parents for a chat usually - so it can also be my form of socialising - the matches are all over the place on Saturdays and Sundays, the driving has to be done and someone has to support the team!

To be honest, I would expect a teen to be able to manage a 2 to 3 km journey by themselves on foot or by bicycle rather than being taxied about by their parents. I can see the social side of it for you, but the driving is not necessary, it is a choice.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.



No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. No comparison at all with drink which is a perfectly acceptable everyday thing for the vast majory of people and in no way something to hide away from children.

I do love you nox, I'm not even kidding. Everyone these days doubts themselves, questions if they're doing the right thing, if their opinions are informed, if the news is fake etc. And there you stand, a ****in rock of certainty and consistency, your way is right and normal, other stuff is weird, and there's not one iota of self-doubt. I'm pretty sure I don't actually agree with you on anything, ever, but there is something very comforting about you all the same.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Sitting and having a lunch especially when so many places are family friendly is totally different. I tend to avoid those pubs though!! :pac:

Ugh, yeah. Not a fan of kids in the pub after fiveish. Or before five. Or anywhere near me. Ever.

R.D. aka MR.D

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. .

Ah here now. You do understand that alcohol is actually a drug? So you can't be totally against drugs.

Even if you don't somehow agree with that fact (because it is a fact, have a wee look in your dictionary), other drugs like weed are a normal every day things in some places too.

One eyed Jack

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Ah here now. You do understand that alcohol is actually a drug? So you can't be totally against drugs.

Even if you don't somehow agree with that fact (because it is a fact, have a wee look in your dictionary), other drugs like weed are a normal every day things in some places too.

It's a drug insofar as anything else could be considered a drug due to the makeup of chemicals. To say that alcohol is perceived by many societies as being on the same spectrum as other drugs, is stretching things a fair bit beyond mere dictionary definitions.

R.D. aka MR.D

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't want my child to experience that same childhood I had, and so I've often brought him to the pub for an Irish breakfast for myself, continental breakfast for him, and we'll go for a family meal on a Sunday, or when I go visiting friends who would be shall we say on the lower socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder spectrum, I'll take him with me (not so much any more since my wife and I separated), but all of these experiences take the "taboo" out of what would normally make these experiences attractive to a young man.

The difference in what you are describing is that you are thinking about your child. You care about their wellbeing and putting them first. You want them to experience things in a controlled way. You're not just bringing them to the pub because you want to go to the pub instead of spending quality time with your child in an appropriate environment.

I was responding to some one questioning why you wouldn't have a child around alcohol like it was some crazy concept. If you believe that having your child around drunk people is okay then I'm not here to tell you how to parent.

R.D. aka MR.D

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's a drug insofar as anything else could be considered a drug due to the makeup of chemicals. To say that alcohol is perceived by many societies as being on the same spectrum as other drugs, is stretching things a fair bit beyond mere dictionary definitions.

Think about what cultural context comes into play when you make this statement.

It doesn't matter whether it is perceived as anything. It is what it is. What cultural norms we place on it doesn't change what it actually is. Despite how much many people would like it to be so.

In 20years other drugs may be in the same favour as alcohol! They'll still be drugs though!

kylith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's nothing to do with anyone being politically correct or anything else. I thought the same as you too initially, and there's nothing at all wrong with a man having a few jars, but the OP who is this mans wife, isn't happy with the current circumstances in which she finds herself, and part of that is due to her shifting perception and realisation that her experience of her marriage isn't universal! Her circumstances are normal, the norm for many people who are married, but that doesn't make the OP feel any better about her situation, and that's the most important thing, is the OP's perspective of her own circumstances.

Of course it may well be a good marriage, and given they're together as long as they are, and the OP appeared to be content up to now, I wouldn't be encouraging any rash decisions, but the OP has said they've taken some pointers away from this thread, and if some of the opinions on this thread enable the OP and her husband an even better marriage, a great marriage, which works for both the OP and her husband and their family, well I couldn't say that was a bad outcome. I just have no idea what the outcome will be for the OP, but the only person who will be able to judge that for themselves is the OP herself and nobody else, because it is the OP who will experience any outcome of her own decisions, and none of us will.

Having said that, I would encourage the OP to explore other avenues too besides basing any decisions they make about their future and their relationship with their husband and the outcomes for their family, solely on the opinions of strangers on the internet.

Your point seems to be that she wasn't too unhappy until she realised that everyone else didn't put up with it too, and that therefore her unhappiness is partly our fault for telling her that not every relationship is like that.

50 years ago we could have been having the conversation with the OP talking about how nice it is when her husband doesn't hit her, and being surprised to learn that not all husbands do that.

Cue people saying 'OMG, you can't equate smacking your wife around with having a few beers on a Saturday night', and while domestic abuse is obviously worse they're both still things that at one point were considered perfectly normal, but we now accept that domestic violence is totally wrong. Thankfully the time of men getting their wages and heading straight to the pub to drink them and leaving their families the leftovers is passing too.

meeeeh

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with lunch at 14 and dad went to his local every Friday playing cards for cents. We would be in a pub only for one drink, I was probably properly drunk for the first time when I was 17. Dad would get drunk maybe couple of times per year and every Saturday he would be up at seven working or doing whatever was needed. I am around alcohol my whole life but luckily my parents had healthy attitude to alcohol. There is no need to be completely dry but personally I would expect some responsible behavior and restraint when you have kids (and if you don't).
I couldn't tolerate the behavior described in op but I also feel no need to hide a glass of wine from kids when eating dinner. And frankly I think that kind of attitude is much healthier than all or nothing approach.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with lunch at 14 and dad went to his local every Friday playing cards for cents. We would be in a pub only for one drink, I was probably properly drunk for the first time when I was 17. Dad would get drunk maybe couple of times per year and every Saturday he would be up at seven working or doing whatever was needed. I am around alcohol my whole life but luckily my parents had healthy attitude to alcohol. There is no need to be completely dry but personally I would expect some responsible behavior and restraint when you have kids (and if you don't).
I couldn't tolerate the behavior described in op but I also feel no need to hide a glass of wine from kids when eating dinner. And frankly I think that kind of attitude is much healthier than all or nothing approach.

You're probably right, but it''s very hard to predict how your own behaviour will affect your kids behaviour.

I don't drink, partly because it wasn't the "done" thing for nice girls when I was a teenager, and partly because when I did experiment with alcohol, I never found an alcoholic drink that I could stand the taste of. So, I never bothered starting.

My husband doesn't drink. He used to take a social drink when we were younger, now he doesn't bother.

The funny thing is, every one of our adult children would drink socially.

We would both have smoked when we were younger, too. Guess how many of the (adult) "kids" smoke? One.

I think peer pressure affects the decisions teenagers make more than their parents do, but as they grow into adulthood, then the parents influence becomes more evident.

At least, that's been my experience, for what it's worth.

meeeeh

I absolutely agree but my point was that you can have sensible attitude to alcohol and not aversely affect kids.

One eyed Jack

kylith wrote: »

Your point seems to be that she wasn't too unhappy until she realised that everyone else didn't put up with it too, and that therefore her unhappiness is partly our fault for telling her that not every relationship is like that.

That wasn't my point at all, I certainly wouldn't consider it anyone's fault here if the OP makes decisions about her own life based upon the opinions of complete strangers commenting on what little they know of her life. The OP is responsible for any decisions they make and it'd be pointless them then coming back and saying "That didn't work Boards, what now?" kind of thing. As I've maintained all along - how the OP processes their experiences and how they incorporate the opinions of other people in their lives is entirely their responsibility. They do appear to have travelled outside the country, enjoy all other aspects of their lifestyle, their marriage and their family, and their husband appears to be a good man in spite of this one problem for the OP. Before I met my friend who was married at 16, divorced at 44 with four children, I never would have been able to understand how someone who appears to be so capable, could be so clueless, and she is clueless, like her personal development stunted at 16 when she married her husband, and now newly divorced she was faced with navigating a world which was completely unknown to her. That's the kind of rude awakening I was referring to when I was thinking of how the OP just got a rude awakening from what must have been at some point a lifestyle she was happy to consider her future. I couldn't suggest she may have been aware of alternatives because I've experienced numerous people who genuinely aren't, and are perfectly contented and happy in their bubble. As I said earlier - I've never considered it my right to interfere with that just because I might have a different perspective. If they're happy, more power to them. It's also understandable that other people wouldn't share my perspective and do see it as their right to interfere with other people's lives, it's not like it will have any consequences for them, is it? It's not like their interference in other people's lives will have any consequences for my life either, so hey - play on, and more power to them too!

50 years ago we could have been having the conversation with the OP talking about how nice it is when her husband doesn't hit her, and being surprised to learn that not all husbands do that.

I think it's nice for you that you think you have to go back 50 years to be having that conversation. I have conversations like that all the time with people, and because I prefer that they come to realise themselves that it isn't healthy, when they do, I'm still there to support them and give them every support they need.

Cue people saying 'OMG, you can't equate smacking your wife around with having a few beers on a Saturday night', and while domestic abuse is obviously worse they're both still things that at one point were considered perfectly normal, but we now accept that domestic violence is totally wrong.

Again, what's with the "we" business? I've met countless numbers of people who consider domestic abuse to be a perfectly normal part and parcel of their everyday reality and their life. I also know plenty of people who are perfectly content in relationships where their husband is rarely ever at home, and they take responsibility for raising their children and are not just happy to do so, but proud of their achievements, while their husband works on his golf handicap or is down the pub watching the weekend footie (I joined them once, purely out of curiosity as I thought I might get in on this male bonding craic... I was bored out of my tree by half-time, and fcuked off after the end of the first match, really not my thing at all, but the rest of the people there, including women, appeared to be enjoying themselves).

Thankfully the time of men getting their wages and heading straight to the pub to drink them and leaving their families the leftovers is passing too.

... of course it is.

Sunny Disposition

It's very interesting to see the different views on alcohol here. It has certainly opened my eyes anyway, amazed some people think what mockjay's husband is doing is basically grand. Have also seen it argued that not having kids around alcohol at all might be bad for them! Incidentally I like a pint myself but some of the justifications and attempts at equivalence on the thread are genuinely baffling.

Things have changed here since the late 90s, a huge drink culture certainly developed around then but it has declined again and you can see some people on this thread still don't see the issues with heavy drinking and it's impact on everyday life/family, although many now do.

The OP has come across as a v fair and measured person, hope everything gets sorted out for her without too much difficulty and both her and her husband go on to enjoy weekends much more. Also it'd be great if she were to come back to this thread some time in the future and let us know how she's getting on, although of course it's totally understandable if she doesn't want to.

Chuchote

meeeeh wrote: »

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with

You may be reacting to my story of a friend who would never touch drink again, or let himself be near it, after escaping a serious addiction. I haven't seen him for years, but as far as I know, this is still his way. But he really was a serious addict; he said taking a drink (for him) would be like taking a little nip of heroin for a drug addict who'd got clean.

But I'd be the same in general as you in terms of being gentle and relaxed about alcohol, while keeping an eye on it.

At the same time, when I was growing up it was unknown among anyone I knew for either boys or girls to drink before at least 19 if not their 20s. Now it's the norm for teenagers to get drunk, which certainly isn't good for their bodies.

I've noticed that Continentals are astonished at how young Irish people drink - and indeed how Irish people generally drink. The concept of "a glass of wine" is unusual here, usual in France, Italy and Germany.

Chuchote

Chuchote wrote: »

I've noticed that Continentals are astonished at how young Irish people drink - and indeed how Irish people generally drink. The concept of "a glass of wine" is unusual here, usual in France, Italy and Germany.

Considering the drinking age in contentinal Europe varies from about 12 to 16 I'd find that very hard to believe. Italy has a notorious reputation for young people drinking (it would be underage here but not their with their lower age limits).