Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

please helpThank YOU

mynamejeff wrote: »

and if your and unbalanced bag of crazy with an imaged axe to grind you can go on social media make any sort of vague and unproven allegation and try to stir up a mob to go and terrify harass and abuse a innocent mans family becase he dared to apply the law to you .

in this specific case this guy went through the district court circuit court and high court. gesoc then investigated repeated allegations and found nothing.

and so this is the result , trying or organise mobs to frighten women and children .

the motion being discussed is meant to preempt all of that . unlikley to work but its a small measure of protection

Scumbags Making False accusations how many of the scumbags have being Jailed for doing this to Garda? The scumbags do this to members of the public also and no one goes to Jail.

flutered

flutered wrote: »

gsoc are about as usefull as a dry bar at a 21st birthday celeb

Really? In what way? Have you had dealings with them?
What, in your opinion makes them useless?
Genuine question, i only see them from the other side.

please helpThank YOU

One Guy in Limerick his name is Gerry Molly he has 18 Videos on Youtube . Gardai Corrupt Garda and State Solictor etc.

Discodog

flutered wrote: »

gsoc are about as usefull as a dry bar at a 21st birthday celeb

Exactly. The first stage should be to change the constitution so that a non national can be appointed commissioner. Then separate the Guards & the Intelligence Service.

Appoint a commissioner with no connection whatsoever with the Guards & with anti corruption experience. Then give them absolutely authority to hire, fire & prosecute.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Exactly. The first stage should be to change the constitution so that a non national can be appointed commissioner. Then separate the Guards & the Intelligence Service.

Appoint a commissioner with no connection whatsoever with the Guards & with anti corruption experience. Then give them absolutely authority to hire, fire & prosecute.

What does any of that have to do with GSOC being useless?

Discodog

bubblypop wrote: »

What does any of that have to do with GSOC being useless?

Simple. They are a civilian organisation investigating the Guards who will run rings around them.

It sounds counter intuitive but the best people to investigate corrupt Gardai are experienced Police officers.

The UK discovered this after all their police corruption scandals.

mynamejeff

Discodog wrote: »

Exactly. The first stage should be to change the constitution so that a non national can be appointed commissioner. Then separate the Guards & the Intelligence Service.

Appoint a commissioner with no connection whatsoever with the Guards & with anti corruption experience. Then give them absolutely authority to hire, fire & prosecute.

why separate the gardai and intelligence service ? Intelligence s a tiny area withing the gardai

be a better idea to separate gardai from political influence. its always been suspect making the police vulnerable to to beck and call of whatever failed social worker gets appointed to the post of minister for justice .

a civilian commissioner would be a good idea too

mynamejeff

Discodog wrote: »

Simple. They are a civilian organisation investigating the Guards who will run rings around them.

It sounds counter intuitive but the best people to investigate corrupt Gardai are experienced Police officers.

The UK discovered this after all their police corruption scandals.

many of the members of gsoc are ex police

both irish and non irish

they are ineffective because they are vulnerable to political influence just like the gardai themselves.
Also they seem to be very unprofessional and overly aggressive in the way they try to prosecute cases

howiya

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There is some-one who will investigate though....they're called GSOC.

Trial by media is never the way to go.

Out of interest do you think people were wrong to share videos of what happened on the United Airlines flight the other day?

Should we not be aware of it until the passenger takes action through courts etc?

tayto lover

howiya wrote: »

Out of interest do you think people were wrong to share videos of what happened on the United Airlines flight the other day?

Should we not be aware of it until the passenger takes action through courts etc?

I dind't actually see that video. Wonder if you have a link?

I would have no problem with videos being posted as long as faces were not visible and addresses or family details are not given on social media.

steddyeddy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Have you facts or figures to support that?

We had gardai in Donegal basically frame someone for murder.

Here's just one county. You'll find that not one prosecution arose from this. Granted this was ten years ago but we're still seeing mass corruption today.

As well as the highly publicised multimillion euro payouts to publicans Frank Shortt and Frank McBrearty, some 53 other lesser-known "Donegal-related" civil cases were also settled last year at a cost of over €6m, according to Department of Justice figures.

The union representing rank-and-file gardai said those compensated in Donegal deserved the reparations.
The raft of compensation claims was triggered by Morris Tribunal findings that a number of officers who worked in the division had been negligent or corrupt.

Outside of the major compensation payments to Mr Shortt and Mr McBrearty, the average Donegal-related compensation payout in 2007 was almost €117,000.
The 55 Donegal-related civil actions were part of a total of 190 civil cases connected to the actions of members of An Garda Siochana last year.

The total payout from all cases for the year was €14.7m.
In contrast, just €2.3m in compensation, relating to 126 cases, was paid out in 2006. The Garda Representative Association said the figures for last year were greatly inflated because of the number of Donegal-related cases.

"It is only right and proper that those people were compensated," said GRA general secretary PJ Stone.
"But we have to move on now and look to the future. The Garda Commissioner and the garda associations are working hard to deal with the fall-out from Donegal and to implement the recommendations of the Morris Tribunal."

It is thought tribunal costs, fees for the legal representatives of witnesses and compensation for victims could top €100m when all matters are settled. The largest payout last year was to Inishowen businessman Mr Shortt.
The Supreme Court increased a 2005 compensation award by €2.7m, to bring it to a total of €4.5m, after Mr Shortt spent three years in jail for a crime he did not commit.

Mr Shortt (73), a married father of five, was wrongly convicted in 1995 of allowing the sale of drugs at his Point Inn premises in Quigley's Point, Co Donegal.
The High Court also awarded Raphoe publican Mr McBrearty a total of €2.475m for damages to his business caused by a campaign of garda harassment following the death of the cattle dealer Richie Barron.

Mr McBrearty (64) had been suing for over €6m.

mynamejeff

steddyeddy wrote: »

We had gardai in Donegal basically frame someone for murder.

Here's just one county. You'll find that not one prosecution arose from this. Granted this was ten years ago but we're still seeing mass corruption today.

it was more than 20 years ago and some of the other incident go back to 30 years ago.

steddyeddy

mynamejeff wrote: »

it was more than 20 years ago and some of the other incident go back to 30 years ago.

How many prosecutions arose from them? Have we any indications that abuse of power within the gaurds is punished? It looks like completely the opposite.

Discodog

mynamejeff wrote: »

many of the members of gsoc are ex police

both irish and non irish

they are ineffective because they are vulnerable to political influence just like the gardai themselves.
Also they seem to be very unprofessional and overly aggressive in the way they try to prosecute cases

Over aggressive 😊

The delicate Guards better not join the UK police. AC 12 would make GSOC seem like kittens.

Of course the Guards have to be totally separated from government.

tayto lover

Discodog wrote: »

Over aggressive 😊

The delicate Guards better not join the UK police. AC 12 would make GSOC seem like kittens.

Of course the Guards have to be totally separated from government.

Entirely agree.
There should be independent appointment boards for the garda, judges and army chief of staff. Being crying out for this for years and I believe all the agencies are for it too. No political interference should be allowed in appointments.

mynamejeff

steddyeddy wrote: »

How many prosecutions arose from them? Have we any indications that abuse of power within the gaurds is punished? It looks like completely the opposite.

the state held a public inquiry
what public inquiry has the power to prosecute

Mahon Morris Moriarty Tribunals ? nope

steddyeddy

mynamejeff wrote: »

the state held a public inquiry
what public inquiry has the power to prosecute

Mahon Morris Moriarty Tribunals ? nope

So once a public inquiry is held it precludes prosecution?

mynamejeff

Discodog wrote: »

Over aggressive 😊

The delicate Guards better not join the UK police. AC 12 would make GSOC seem like kittens.
.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-sgt-who-took-own-life-investigated-by-gsoc-about-interaction-with-woman-before-her-death-1.2235656

ya they are pussycats

its their poor level of competence id be more concerned about

mynamejeff

steddyeddy wrote: »

So once a public inquiry is held it precludes prosecution?

you misunderstand . those tribunals dont have the power to prosecute some one .
that was the political decision of the day to protect the like of Ben Dunne to Charles Haughey and Michael Lowry from prosecution

many of those involved in the donegal incident quit or were sacked and most were high raking older gardai. these events are 20 to 30 years ago at this stage

i wouldn't be surprised if some if not many are dead now ??

ShowMeTheCash

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm not flip flopping at all.
Whether identifying a person, their family and address is done deliberately or accidently it's still wrong. He/she has not been found guilty at that stage.

I have often see the guilty in a court case not being named in the newspapers in case it leads to the victim being identified for God's sake.

Maybe show the incident but black-out the face.

I think perhaps you need to step back, this is not a court case, it is not about criminal behavior always.
Recording someone might not show criminal behaviour, I see youtube videos of people all the time of people being @ssh01es, it is not illegal to be an @ssh01e but you might get outted with a video if you are.
For the most part a video when it comes to Garda or Police is really stop erroneous charges being bought up against them.

If there is a video of a Garda or anyone for that matter being a total @ss and it does the rounds on social media then that person is probably going to get flamed for it. I have see cases even of people losing jobs over raciest comments, sexist comments and bad behavior.

What you really are trying to suggest but I think have not really thought it through is freedom of speech, you want to stop people talking about it.

AudreyHepburn

howiya wrote: »

Out of interest do you think people were wrong to share videos of what happened on the United Airlines flight the other day?

Should we not be aware of it until the passenger takes action through courts etc?

No, they were absolutely right to share the footage, it needs to be seen.

I would have a problem if they started naming individual staff members and identifying where they live. That's the issue the Gardai are trying, rightly, to combat.

jmayo

FionnK86 wrote: »

Police should have body cameras for their own protection. Having talked with 3 guards over this issue, approach to policing has changed, we offered them a cup of tea when they came to check our house that was broken into. They couldnt have one for fear we might post it on Facebook that they were slacking.

Trial by Facebook is seriously undermining their respect around the country, decent guards are getting caught up in it.

No what is undermining their respect is the lies, the coverups, the lowlife dirty tricks and character assassinations of anyone that dares speak up and the fact that it is plain to see if you are in with some guards you get to walk, or rather drive on, whereas other less connected individuals face the penalties.

seamus wrote: »

...
Like that pipeline gowl who claimed the Gardai joked about raping her. Look at the storm she caused with her deceit.

So you actually think it was alright for two policemen to "joke" about sexually assaulting a woman in their custody.

I know who the gowl is.

seamus wrote: »

I do think it should be illegal to publish video of Gardai in the course of their duty, with "honest reporting" being a suitable defence for doing so.

Does that apply if they are flouting or actually breaking the law themselves ?
Using your rules, the Gardaí could forcibly remove a passenger from an airplane in Ireland ala the United Airlines incident in US and you would make it illegal for the passengers to show the footage to anyone ?

If anything we need more recording of Gardaí and that should be from perspective of personal cams.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No, they were absolutely right to share the footage, it needs to be seen.

I would have a problem if they started naming individual staff members and identifying where they live. That's the issue the Gardai are trying, rightly, to combat.

But is that it ?
Next thing you find is they start confiscating a persons phone because they claim it is used to record something.

I find Gardaí often like to throw their weight around and are happy at banning things when it suits.

Big question here folks is who now trusts the Gardaí ?

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course power corrupts and of course the Gardai should be held accountable....I don't believe I've ever argued otherwise to be fair.

But trial by media, and identifying them and their families on social media cannot and should not ever be allowed. Nor should trying to get a rise out of them and filming to try and defame them later on.

This motion is being put forward to protect the Gardai whether you like it or not and I honestly wouldn't blame them at all.

If people acted like human beings and not animals at all these so-called peaceful protests we might not be having the discussion now.

You seem to think the Garda are the only people this can happen to? Trial by social media can happen to any of us, you could be having a bad day do something stupid and have it plastered all over facebook tomorrow.

Why should the Garda be treated any differently?

This is being proposed purely due to the heat they are getting over the water protesters, it is a divisive topic and the Garda are being used almost as private security.....

I personally think the proposal a joke and a laughable idea I feel if the Garda act with integrity then proposal would not have been suggested.... I fear the catalyst for this proposal is exactly the reason it should not be considered.

selectamatic

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No, they were absolutely right to share the footage, it needs to be seen.

I would have a problem if they started naming individual staff members and identifying where they live. That's the issue the Gardai are trying, rightly, to combat.

But you see this is where the problem lies. The videos couldn't by law be posted to social media as the law enforcement members identities are not protected hence the videos wouldn't be "seen".

If it were a garda assaulting a passanger on a plane at Dublin airport it'd be illegal to post the video to social media should this law come to pass.

"introduce a criminal offence of photographing or otherwise capturing an image, moving or otherwise, of a member of An Garda Síochána in the exercise of their duty without the member’s consent and to publish or otherwise post this image on any media with intent to identify this member"

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No, they were absolutely right to share the footage, it needs to be seen.

I would have a problem if they started naming individual staff members and identifying where they live. That's the issue the Gardai are trying, rightly, to combat.

Once the media is shared you cannot stop what people then do with it.

I could post a video of a Garda on youtube and 50 comments in JonnyBacon1977 could write "That's .... from ......"

Who is to blame? Me for posting the video? or JonnyBacon1977 for commenting on the name and address of the Garda?

I think you might find it difficult to prosecute JonnyBacon1977...

There has been entire TV programs and debates on this, over internet bulling, trolling even people getting death threats.....

The proposal is ill-conceived naming and shaming people is not a new concept and really this is what this is about.

LuckyLloyd

Not really interested in the desires of a corrupt and incompetent police force. Start doing your job properly, earn some respect and in a few years start issuing demands imo.

Discodog

mynamejeff wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-sgt-who-took-own-life-investigated-by-gsoc-about-interaction-with-woman-before-her-death-1.2235656

ya they are pussycats

its their poor level of competence id be more concerned about

What did they do wrong ? You cannot allow for the mental state of an accused if you aren't aware of it. I bet that there have been more deaths as a result of wrongful accusations by the Gardai.

By the way it looks like a lot of other Garda figures etc are going to be under investigation.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/womens-aid-reveals-concerns-over-domestic-violence-statistics-from-gardai-784122.html

SPDUB

selectamatic wrote: »

"introduce a criminal offence of photographing or otherwise capturing an image, moving or otherwise, of a member of An Garda Síochána in the exercise of their duty without the member’s consent and to publish or otherwise post this image on any media with intent to identify this member"

So we wouldn't be able to do preliminary sketches of the Gardai , like Blackadder did of the Bishop of Bath and Wells , either:D

howiya

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No, they were absolutely right to share the footage, it needs to be seen.

I would have a problem if they started naming individual staff members and identifying where they live. That's the issue the Gardai are trying, rightly, to combat.

I agree nobody should be naming/identifying gardaí.

If Gardai are acting inappropriately though footage should be shared without identifying them

ShowMeTheCash

howiya wrote: »

I agree nobody should be naming/identifying gardaí.

If Gardai are acting inappropriately though footage should be shared without identifying them

Just Gardai?

This could be said about anyone, but here is the reality of it, you will not be able to stop it, once the media is shared you will not be able to stop people naming and shaming....

There was a program on trolling and what it came down to was freedom of speech, if someone tells lies and it is written you can sue them for liable...

The issue comes when you are not lying you are actually stating facts and still be prosecuted..... This is a slippery slope!