Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

tayto lover

Reati wrote: »

I've answered it several times in the thread already. I've also said I support them in a law that makes it an offense to do harass Gardaí or there familys online via social media.

What you continue to ignore and naively refuse to believe is that this purposed ban will have no impact on your exact scenario. A drug dealer with a grudge isn't going to let a ban on someone taking photos stop him from targeting that garda.

Right I didn't read the whole thread and accept your answer.

My other point is, why make it easy for that drug dealer?
The Garda's family should not have to suffer in either case.
I have no problem with taking photos of Garda but putting them all over Facebook and telling people where they live should not be allowed.

Dyr

It's disgraceful joe, targeting families Joe. Making threats against kids Joe. Should be a law against it...unless we're the ones doing it of course:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/tape-of-garda-threats-to-man-s-wife-and-child-collapses-trial-1.3017992


Incidentally the copper in question here shares his name with a copper who was found pissed drunk passed out in a car across the middle of the road. Surely it cant be the same guy? Surely he was cashiered out after being convicted? If it was the same lad surely he'll be looking at jail time now for trying to force a man to commit perjury, and him with a previous conviction? Surely f**k.

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-was-drunk-in-patrol-car-27949626.html

CoolHandBandit

More evidence that the Gardai are in a total mess and unfit for purpose. Sure not to worry once they got their pay rise by threatening to break the law themselves. Clowns.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

surely he'll be looking at jail time now for trying to force a man to commit perjury, and him with a previous conviction?

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-was-drunk-in-patrol-car-27949626.html

Can you explain this part?

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As I said I am not going to argue with you any longer.....you clearly have a chip on your shoulder, even you if refuse to admit it.

If you can't see the need for the Gardai to protect themselves and their families from abuse and harassment then you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

I suggest you go educate yourself, read a book, look at how the state and the Garda have treated families in this country and the their abuse of power.

Ignorance of this is to be complicit....

Reati

tayto lover wrote: »

Reati wrote: »

I've answered it several times in the thread already. I've also said I support them in a law that makes it an offense to do harass Gardaí or there familys online via social media.

What you continue to ignore and naively refuse to believe is that this purposed ban will have no impact on your exact scenario. A drug dealer with a grudge isn't going to let a ban on someone taking photos stop him from targeting that garda.

Right I didn't read the whole thread and accept your answer.

My other point is, why make it easy for that drug dealer?
The Garda's family should not have to suffer in either case.
I have no problem with taking photos of Garda but putting them all over Facebook and telling people where they live should not be allowed.

I get the point your are attempting to make. I continue to hold the view (from family experience who are Gardaí dealt with simular) this won't make a difference to a criminal with a grudge finding out things.

I've also said throughout the thread it's deplorable to target them, their family's and their kids. 100% it should be very heavily punished. I've no time for people making videos egging on emergency personal or those stupid water protest I'm a victim videos but I do defend everyone's right to video public space including Gardaí on duty.

please helpThank YOU

What is stick out like a sore thumb is the wording. ( Any Media ) Broadcasting, Publishing, Internet, Newspaper , Magazines, TV, Radio,. This New Law the Garda Want will also cover them to break the Law and make Video Evidence illlegal.

76544567

Nobody should be allowed to stick a camera in anyone's face and publish it. Never mind d just the Gardai.

Reati

76544567 wrote: »

Nobody should be allowed to stick a camera in anyone's face and publish it. Never mind d just the Gardai.

Your not allowed do this today. It's called harassment.

Mr.Micro

Oops69 wrote: »

After all the recent scandals you would think the gardai might want to keep their heads down , but no , they put our this provocative suggestion , just proves the culture of arrogance within the force.

Simply because they want to continue to do as they like. It should be a crime to take a Garda salary and not do the job, but make up data. The public needs protection from these type of individuals. For the small number of Garda that may get posted on the social media, it's nothing compared to the implications if such a law was enacted.

ShowMeTheCash

tayto lover wrote: »

Right I didn't read the whole thread and accept your answer.

My other point is, why make it easy for that drug dealer?
The Garda's family should not have to suffer in either case.
I have no problem with taking photos of Garda but putting them all over Facebook and telling people where they live should not be allowed.

Easier for the drug dealer to do what?

What makes you think that there is even a problem with criminals.....
You are taking the current context and bending it to try and fit a scenario you have cooked up in you own head.

If a drug dealer wanted to know where a Garda lived then this could easily be done....

A member from the Garda is not going to get abuse from the general public for arresting a drug dealer....

But they might for dragging a water protester from the front of their home.......

TheDoc

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

And I can agree with most of what you said here but I am not the one using extreme "explosive vest" scenarios to justify the video, yes there is a gray but the Garda also have a duty of care which I feel lacking in the video.

And thats fine. But in that scenario and that video, the "care" to the lady who jumped the hood, is on nobodies radar involved with the security detail.

Like I said, it's a roundabout conversation. Those experienced with or appreciative of the training of that scenario and what is involved, will sympathise with the criticism but will ultimately agree it was a fine course of action.

Those with no experience and looking to scapegoat will just call it heavy handed etc. Like I said, it's a roundabout conversation where those with experience are the minority in the debate.

TheDoc

Reati wrote: »

Your not allowed do this today. It's called harassment.

Tell that to cyclists looking to get their little video on Joe.ie. Our laws are just outdated when it comes to how quickly technology has progressed.

The cyclist helmet cam thing is a new phenomenon that I wouldn't know how to deal with, until one of them stuck his head through my window saying "I've got you all on camera" and with my kids in the car I reefed him of his back and into the car.

There is a clear issue of people feeling they have a "right" to record instances in their life because its happening to them, whilst just blatantly breaching a real right to privacy and due process.

AudreyHepburn

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I suggest you go educate yourself, read a book, look at how the state and the Garda have treated families in this country and the their abuse of power.

Ignorance of this is to be complicit....

Telling some-one to go educate themselves is what's ignorant.

I don't know what run ins you had with AGS, and you clearly had some, but you need to stop allowing to color your view of the organisation as whole.

The vast majority of Gardai are honest hardworking people and they need and deserve protection.

Reati

Reati wrote: »

Your not allowed do this today. It's called harassment.

There's no way anyone would get charged with harassment for taking photos/ videos & posting online once.
It's hard enough to get a charge when the actions are persistent!

ShowMeTheCash

TheDoc wrote: »

And thats fine. But in that scenario and that video, the "care" to the lady who jumped the hood, is on nobodies radar involved with the security detail.

Like I said, it's a roundabout conversation. Those experienced with or appreciative of the training of that scenario and what is involved, will sympathise with the criticism but will ultimately agree it was a fine course of action.

Those with no experience and looking to scapegoat will just call it heavy handed etc. Like I said, it's a roundabout conversation where those with experience are the minority in the debate.

And those looking to justify will cook up scenarios like explosive vests and repeatedly say "jumped the hood" to try and bring balance to the actions of the Garda when i think most people could agree this could of been handled better....

Allinall

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

And those looking to justify will cook up scenarios like explosive vests and repeatedly say "jumped the hood" to try and bring balance to the actions of the Garda when i think most people could agree this could of been handled better....

Most untrained people, possibly, although I would still say "most" is an exaggeration.

please helpThank YOU

This is a fact how many lawsuits are against Government agency Garda, HSE, Tulsa,Department of Justice,. who people have hidden camera evidence of wrong doing and Not put them up on youtube ?. Nursing homes like in Mayo HSE Run Aras Attracta homes the abuse of residents any for the hidden camera this would still be going on today. next you will have all government staff wanting a camera ban while on duty.

tayto lover

Bambi wrote: »

It's disgraceful joe, targeting families Joe. Making threats against kids Joe. Should be a law against it...unless we're the ones doing it of course:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/tape-of-garda-threats-to-man-s-wife-and-child-collapses-trial-1.3017992


Incidentally the copper in question here shares his name with a copper who was found pissed drunk passed out in a car across the middle of the road. Surely it cant be the same guy? Surely he was cashiered out after being convicted? If it was the same lad surely he'll be looking at jail time now for trying to force a man to commit perjury, and him with a previous conviction? Surely f**k.

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-was-drunk-in-patrol-car-27949626.html

Neither of those cases are to do with filming and putting on social media.
The Garda in your cases should be prosecuted for breaking the law but this thread is about filming and identifying family and addresses.
I have no time for anyone who breaks the law whether Garda or public.

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Telling some-one to go educate themselves is what's ignorant.

I don't know what run ins you had with AGS, and you clearly had some, but you need to stop allowing to color your view of the organisation as whole.

The vast majority of Gardai are honest hardworking people and they need and deserve protection.

I find you lack of judgement and your ability to jump to conclusions some what alarming, you seem to think because someone does not share your view that they of course must of had a run in with the AGS....

You literally make no argument... Stating that the vast majority of Gardai are hard working people as that has any barring on the argument, most people are hard working!
From what I see of people recording the Garda do so to ensure their own safety when there is conflict with Garda specifically with regards protesting. I think for most people they hope it will keep the Garda honest knowing they are being recorded which I totally understand. The videos that get the most traction are the videos that show the Garda being forceful with protesters.

ShowMeTheCash

Allinall wrote: »

Most untrained people, possibly, although I would still say "most" is an exaggeration.

Well the youtube likes suggest most....
So you think a trained expert would say the Garda handled this well?
Tumbling a woman and himself to the ground??

I do not think anyone needs to be an expert to know this was a huge gaff!

Ted111

Those body cams are coming in anyway. They are being piloted somewhere and will eventually come in everywhere.

AudreyHepburn

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I find you lack of judgement and your ability to jump to conclusions some what alarming, you seem to think because someone does not share your view that they of course must of had a run in with the AGS....

You literally make no argument... Stating that the vast majority of Gardai are hard working people as that has any barring on the argument, most people are hard working!
From what I see of people recording the Garda do so to ensure their own safety when there is conflict with Garda specifically with regards protesting. I think for most people they hope it will keep the Garda honest knowing they are being recorded which I totally understand. The videos that get the most traction are the videos that show the Garda being forceful with protesters.

It's not because you don't share my opinions, it's the amount of venom your directing towards AGS that makes me think you had a run in - maybe you were one of those protesters you're so determined to defend, I don't know.

Look I am not going to argue with you anymore, you seem to have decided that you are right and will not be dissuaded from that.

Like I said you need to step and take a good look at yourself.

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It's not because you don't share my opinions, it's the amount of venom your directing towards AGS that makes me think you had a run in - maybe you were one of those protesters you're so determined to defend, I don't know.

Look I am not going to argue with you anymore, you seem to have decided that you are right and will not be dissuaded from that.

Like I said you need to step and take a good look at yourself.

I think the irony of this post is going to be lost on you!

I think perhaps this venom you speak of is all in your head to try and make a personal point as you seem to have lost your way anything remotely intelligent... Fabricating a scenario whereby you think I am some Jessie James type character who has an axe to grind with the law. Hang on to that idea if you wish.
Never been to a protest either so I think you might running out of crazy assumptions??

tayto lover

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

This is a fact how many lawsuits are against Government agency Garda, HSE, Tulsa,Department of Justice,. who people have hidden camera evidence of wrong doing and Not put them up on youtube ?. Nursing homes like in Mayo HSE Run Aras Attracta homes the abuse of residents any for the hidden camera this would still be going on today. next you will have all government staff wanting a camera ban while on duty.

That does not seem to be the problem here.
I am all for filming and reporting to their authorities when things are not done right.
However I am not for posting pictures of Garda and identifying them, their family members and their addresses online. That's just not on.

AudreyHepburn

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I think the irony of this post is going to be lost on you!

I think perhaps this venom you speak of is all in your head to try and make a personal point as you seem to have lost your way anything remotely intelligent... Fabricating a scenario whereby you think I am some Jessie James type character who has an axe to grind with the law. Hang on to that idea if you wish.
Never been to a protest either so I think you might running out of crazy assumptions??

If you've never had a run in with AGS would you mind explaining why you seem to despise them so much?

Because I honestly can't imagine some-one has never dealt with them would be so sure they are corrupt and incompetent.

Allinall

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well the youtube likes suggest most....
So you think a trained expert would say the Garda handled this well?
Tumbling a woman and himself to the ground??

I do not think anyone needs to be an expert to know this was a huge gaff!

How many YouTube comments are we talking about?

How many people didn't watch the YouTube clips?

I absolutely think you need to be an expert to make an informed judgement on that situation.

ShowMeTheCash

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If you've never had a run in with AGS would you mind explaining why you seem to despise them so much?

Because I honestly can't imagine some-one has never dealt with them would be so sure they are corrupt and incompetent.

I do not despise the AGS but you are talking as if AGS is a singular entity they are an organization with a history of abusing power and corruption. (As are most sate owned enforcement agencies the world over we are not special)

This is not to say all Garda abuse power and that they are all corrupt but some do and when they do normal people end up suffering at the hands of a state body.

The only way this is combated is to ensure the AGS are held accountable for when they over-step, abuse power or when corruption is found.

You argue the proposed bill is to protect the Garda and their families, yes to a degree I agree, but more so on the idea to protect the Garda from been seen to be involved in anymore wrong doing.

You just need to look at the whistle blowers and how they where treated....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/did-dark-forces-try-to-silence-garda-mccabe-35443606.html

Is this the AGS you are trying to defend?

What about the Night cluber owner in Donegal

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nightclub-owner-sues-state-over-unjust-conviction-25895144.html

Where the Garda deliberate withheld information and perjured themselves in court where a man spent over 2 years in prison?


Whether you like it or not these things happen, have happened and will probably continue to happen to some extent.



Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/lordacton109401.html

ShowMeTheCash

Allinall wrote: »

How many YouTube comments are we talking about?

How many people didn't watch the YouTube clips?

I absolutely think you need to be an expert to make an informed judgement on that situation.

Well all I know is that of the people who did watch it the majority seem to agree with it.... So what's your argument?

This is not the CIA nor is it a military tactically analysis, garda tumbled woman to the ground and lads on his arse I hardly think it really needs an expert!

Allinall

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well all I know is that of the people who did watch it the majority seem to agree with it.... So what's your argument?

This is not the CIA nor is it a military tactically analysis, garda tumbled woman to the ground and lads on his arse I hardly think it really needs an expert!

How exactly would you have handled it better?