Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 3:50pm

Allinall wrote: »

How exactly would you have handled it better?

It was handled, there where 3 Garda, Garda in the middle seem to have it all under control pulled her back from the car then yellow jacket bombs in and make a complete mess of it ending up on his own arse.

I think had he not of been there there would be no video doing the rounds.

DARK-KNIGHT · 11-04-2017 3:53pm

I think if a ban is enforced will be good and bad sides to it... the honest hardworking garda members will be protected from being targeted... BYT with that the bad garda and there are plenty are protected from being shown doing wrong...

its a catch 22 if you don't feel comfy about being singled out your working in the wrong job I reckon

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 3:56pm

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think if a ban is enforced will be good and bad sides to it... the honest hardworking garda members will be protected from being targeted... BYT with that the bad garda and there are plenty are protected from being shown doing wrong...

its a catch 22 if you don't feel comfy about being singled out your working in the wrong job I reckon

Perhaps had the government not made such a mess over water charges and used the Garda to enfore the installation then it would not have been such an issue to begin with!

Allinall · 11-04-2017 3:59pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

It was handled, there where 3 Garda, Garda in the middle seem to have it all under control pulled her back from the car then yellow jacket bombs in and make a complete mess of it ending up on his own arse.

I think had he not of been there there would be no video doing the rounds.

Way to avoid the question.

The fact that there is a video doing the rounds is irrelevant.

Truth is, you haven't a clue how you would have handled the situation as you were not there, didn't see the build up, aren't trained in these things, aren't in a position to assess various possible risks etc.

Yet you thing you are capable of deciding for yourself, and most other people that the situation was handled badly.

Your opinion should be ignored, as it has no credibility.

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 4:14pm

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think if a ban is enforced will be good and bad sides to it... the honest hardworking garda members will be protected from being targeted... BYT with that the bad garda and there are plenty are protected from being shown doing wrong...

its a catch 22 if you don't feel comfy about being singled out your working in the wrong job I reckon

I don't see it like that.
The wrongdoers are not protected because the film can be given to those investigating them. The ban seems to only be for posting the film on social media and identifying their family and address.
If it was a complete ban then I would be against it too.

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 4:16pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Perhaps had the government not made such a mess over water charges and used the Garda to enfore the installation then it would not have been such an issue to begin with!

I was on many water protest marches and had no confrontation with the Garda because I didn't break any laws or cause any trouble. Those who did served no purpose but their own.

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 4:23pm

Allinall wrote: »

Way to avoid the question.

The fact that there is a video doing the rounds is irrelevant.

Truth is, you haven't a clue how you would have handled the situation as you were not there, didn't see the build up, aren't trained in these things, aren't in a position to assess various possible risks etc.

Yet you thing you are capable of deciding for yourself, and most other people that the situation was handled badly.

Your opinion should be ignored, as it has no credibility.

So if I say I am a Captain in the Army would that make my opinion more valid? What about a Judge... they make judgements all the time?

I wouldn't have a clue what I would of done that is true I doubt anyone can really answer that question, but I can tell you one thing for sure, if I was that Garda i would be pretty embarrassed at this video!

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 4:27pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I was on many water protest marches and had no confrontation with the Garda because I didn't break any laws or cause any trouble. Those who did served no purpose but their own.

So just because you had no confrontation means that any confrontation with a garda during any march was because they where breaking the law?

Did you video the march? Did anyone video the march?

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 4:29pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't see it like that.
The wrongdoers are not protected because the film can be given to those investigating them. The ban seems to only be for posting the film on social media and identifying their family and address.
If it was a complete ban then I would be against it too.

Well what if I post a video, then someone comments on it that, that is John Brown from 1 Dublin Road.

What you are suggesting is you can control the media once it is out there, this is a naive idea!

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 4:32pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Well what if I post a video, then someone comments on it that, that is John Brown from 1 Dublin Road.

What you are suggesting is you can control the media once it is out there, this is a naive idea!

You shouldn't post the video. If the Garda is doing something wrong then report him and use the video as proof. Then nobody else can post details of his address or family.

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 4:35pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So just because you had no confrontation means that any confrontation with a garda during any march was because they where breaking the law?

Did you video the march? Did anyone video the march?

We took pictures of the march, not the Garda walking alongside.
In general the protests were well organised and there was no need for trouble. The only trouble I heard of was caused by people who wanted trouble.

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 4:39pm

tayto lover wrote: »

You shouldn't post the video. If the Garda is doing something wrong then report him and use the video as proof. Then nobody else can post details of his address or family.

So you want to control the media?
News channels show footage on Garda all the time...

Where do you think the idea of "going to the press" comes from?

TheDoc · 11-04-2017 4:43pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

And those looking to justify will cook up scenarios like explosive vests and repeatedly say "jumped the hood" to try and bring balance to the actions of the Garda when i think most people could agree this could of been handled better....

Well unlike the other side of the coin, there is clear parameters and prerequisites to taking a particular course of action, in that type of scenario.

So actually no, it is not open for interpretation when it comes to a debrief or a review of an incident.

The integrity of the Guarda inspectorate and internal discipline is a separate kettle of fish. But consultants, experts or trainers viewing a situation will very much be able to deduce and define if a course of action was warranted and if any improvement or alternatives could have been executed.

I'll take your point that you feel this could have been handled better. I'd put to you the entire situation could have been avoided if the individual behaved like an adult, and didn't jump the hood of the Taoiseach's vehicle. Or if they had a shred of intelligence knowing that course of action would likely result in them being restrained, and actually, prosecuted.

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 4:44pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So you want to control the media?
News channels show footage on Garda all the time...

Where do you think the idea of "going to the press" comes from?

I didn't see anyone wanting to curtail the media.
I saw posters not wanting people's addresses and family identified.
There is nothing wrong in filming wrongdoing but posting the names and addresses of their family members on social media is entirely wrong. They are not being accused of anything.

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-04-2017 4:46pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So just because you had no confrontation means that any confrontation with a garda during any march was because they where breaking the law?

Did you video the march? Did anyone video the march?

Yes, many an innocent water protester was brutally assaulted by the Gardai, just take a look at this horrible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYBHydg2m8

I have to say the sheer viciousness of it makes my blood run cold.
A cheer for those gallant heroes who wanted to save themselves from having to pay a few quid for an important utility. Funny, they never seemed to protest about USC, or maybe the people paying USC were too busy working to be out all day every day as an organised rent-a-mob...

TL/DR:
Re the videoing of Gardai, sometimes it works both ways.

TheDoc · 11-04-2017 4:46pm

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I think if a ban is enforced will be good and bad sides to it... the honest hardworking garda members will be protected from being targeted... BYT with that the bad garda and there are plenty are protected from being shown doing wrong...

its a catch 22 if you don't feel comfy about being singled out your working in the wrong job I reckon

It's like there wasn't bad or malpractice in the Guards before camera phones. How do people think it was dealt with? There is avenues and routes that are proper and carry due process and care that allow proper investigation of malpractice.

That there is a general stench in the air about the Guards doesn't eliminate they are still accountable for poor practice, and they can be reported through appropriate channels where there are people who actually investigate allegations or claims.

Lads getting smacked around in cells with pool balls in socks or phone books didn't have camera phones on them or any recordings, but were still able to bring cases of malpractice.

11-04-2017 4:47pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So you want to control the media?
News channels show footage on Garda all the time...

Where do you think the idea of "going to the press" comes from?

The news does not show videos of gardai, then identify them on TV & tell everyone the Gardas personal details.
They can show footage no problem.
People can video gardai, no problem.
Footage of wrongdoing can and is regularly used as evidence against members of the gardai.

Members just don't want you tube videos, or threads on boards.ie showing videos of them and then hundreds of posters identifying them and posting details about them.
Can you see the difference??

TheDoc · 11-04-2017 4:49pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, many an innocent water protester was brutally assaulted by the Gardai, just take a look at this horrible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYBHydg2m8

I have to say the sheer viciousness of it makes my blood run cold.
A cheer for those gallant heroes who wanted to save themselves from having to pay a few quid for an important utility. Funny, they never seemed to protest about USC, or maybe the people paying USC were too busy working to be out all day every day as an organised rent-a-mob...

TL/DR:
Re the videoing of Gardai, sometimes it works both ways.

Embarrassing stuff.

Sure I'd say he was out of work for a while after that fall :rolleyes:

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 4:56pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Well unlike the other side of the coin, there is clear parameters and prerequisites to taking a particular course of action, in that type of scenario.

So actually no, it is not open for interpretation when it comes to a debrief or a review of an incident.

The integrity of the Guarda inspectorate and internal discipline is a separate kettle of fish. But consultants, experts or trainers viewing a situation will very much be able to deduce and define if a course of action was warranted and if any improvement or alternatives could have been executed.

I'll take your point that you feel this could have been handled better. I'd put to you the entire situation could have been avoided if the individual behaved like an adult, and didn't jump the hood of the Taoiseach's vehicle. Or if they had a shred of intelligence knowing that course of action would likely result in them being restrained, and actually, prosecuted.

True, jumping out in front of the car was not a good idea, I am not condoning her behavior, I am saying there is a line, I think this Garda could of seriously injured the woman and by the looks of it himself by being reckless...

Heat of the moment I get that too. But I will hold the Garda to a higher standard.

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 5:00pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't see anyone wanting to curtail the media.
I saw posters not wanting people's addresses and family identified.
There is nothing wrong in filming wrongdoing but posting the names and addresses of their family members on social media is entirely wrong. They are not being accused of anything.

You keep flip flopping, I could film a march,l I could actually stream it live, my intention may not be to single out an Garda but once the media is online you are not going to be able to stop that from happening!

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 5:02pm

bubblypop wrote: »

The news does not show videos of gardai, then identify them on TV & tell everyone the Gardas personal details.
They can show footage no problem.
People can video gardai, no problem.
Footage of wrongdoing can and is regularly used as evidence against members of the gardai.

Members just don't want you tube videos, or threads on boards.ie showing videos of them and then hundreds of posters identifying them and posting details about them.
Can you see the difference??

You do not seem to understand how online media works!

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 5:03pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, many an innocent water protester was brutally assaulted by the Gardai, just take a look at this horrible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYBHydg2m8

I have to say the sheer viciousness of it makes my blood run cold.
A cheer for those gallant heroes who wanted to save themselves from having to pay a few quid for an important utility. Funny, they never seemed to protest about USC, or maybe the people paying USC were too busy working to be out all day every day as an organised rent-a-mob...

TL/DR:
Re the videoing of Gardai, sometimes it works both ways.

This supports my stance and I think it should work both ways!

11-04-2017 5:05pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You do not seem to understand how online media works!

Well i do understand that actual news reports will not identify individual gardai that they believe to be engaging in criminality.

It would be a great defence for any guard, charged with a crime, to claim that they can't get a fair trial because of an incident being wildly shared on social media.

ShowMeTheCash · 11-04-2017 5:18pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Well i do understand that actual news reports will not identify individual gardai that they believe to be engaging in criminality.

It would be a great defence for any guard, charged with a crime, to claim that they can't get a fair trial because of an incident being wildly shared on social media.

But they will show footage if they have it....
All social media has done is connect people.

What you are suggesting is we control is what people do with the media!

Here is the thing the world has changed a lot, the collective hive of social media has its ups and its downs.

What you are suggesting is we somehow stop people from saying "I know that guy he is Joe Soap from 1 ballybackwards" and this information then being circulated.

Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle on that one..... Same way you could not stop someone telling a friend they know the guy on the news that is up for x,y and z...

The impact with social media is your friend might just be 1000 more people who in turn all have a 1000 more friends...

tayto lover · 11-04-2017 5:46pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You keep flip flopping, I could film a march,l I could actually stream it live, my intention may not be to single out an Garda but once the media is online you are not going to be able to stop that from happening!

I'm not flip flopping at all.
Whether identifying a person, their family and address is done deliberately or accidently it's still wrong. He/she has not been found guilty at that stage.

I have often see the guilty in a court case not being named in the newspapers in case it leads to the victim being identified for God's sake.

Maybe show the incident but black-out the face.

please helpThank YOU · 11-04-2017 6:16pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, many an innocent water protester was brutally assaulted by the Gardai, just take a look at this horrible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYBHydg2m8

I have to say the sheer viciousness of it makes my blood run cold.
A cheer for those gallant heroes who wanted to save themselves from having to pay a few quid for an important utility. Funny, they never seemed to protest about USC, or maybe the people paying USC were too busy working to be out all day every day as an organised rent-a-mob...

TL/DR:
Re the videoing of Gardai, sometimes it works both ways.

The Fake Fall Guy Should go to Jail and the Camera Evidence used in Court of Law.

DARK-KNIGHT · 11-04-2017 6:45pm

TheDoc wrote: »

It's like there wasn't bad or malpractice in the Guards before camera phones. How do people think it was dealt with? There is avenues and routes that are proper and carry due process and care that allow proper investigation of malpractice.

That there is a general stench in the air about the Guards doesn't eliminate they are still accountable for poor practice, and they can be reported through appropriate channels where there are people who actually investigate allegations or claims.

Lads getting smacked around in cells with pool balls in socks or phone books didn't have camera phones on them or any recordings, but were still able to bring cases of malpractice.

Cases of malpractice are harder to prove without footage

DARK-KNIGHT · 11-04-2017 6:47pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, many an innocent water protester was brutally assaulted by the Gardai, just take a look at this horrible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYBHydg2m8

I have to say the sheer viciousness of it makes my blood run cold.
A cheer for those gallant heroes who wanted to save themselves from having to pay a few quid for an important utility. Funny, they never seemed to protest about USC, or maybe the people paying USC were too busy working to be out all day every day as an organised rent-a-mob...

TL/DR:
Re the videoing of Gardai, sometimes it works both ways.

jesus that's embarrassing

Scumbags

If they put as much time into finding work they could pay the water charges 😂

please helpThank YOU · 11-04-2017 7:05pm

Today Limerick Leader watch viral video of steel pole cut down in Limerick City. The pole had recently been erected by Limerick City Council and was used due to be used for CCTV Purposes to monitor criminal activity in the area. People should see this unreal. so now the Scumbags do not want to be recorded the cut down the steel pole for the CCTV.

Calhoun · 11-04-2017 7:06pm

TheDoc wrote: »

It's like there wasn't bad or malpractice in the Guards before camera phones. How do people think it was dealt with? There is avenues and routes that are proper and carry due process and care that allow proper investigation of malpractice.

That there is a general stench in the air about the Guards doesn't eliminate they are still accountable for poor practice, and they can be reported through appropriate channels where there are people who actually investigate allegations or claims.

Lads getting smacked around in cells with pool balls in socks or phone books didn't have camera phones on them or any recordings, but were still able to bring cases of malpractice.

Ah yes the Gaurds have a very good record of prosecuting abuse by the force (not) , look at the likes of Donegal do we need people's lives to be ruined before we take things seriously? Actually not even Donegal look at what the animals done to one of their own in Mcabe.

Lemmings who believe that power doesn't corrupt and they will get a fair shout can keep their phones at home. I think most folk who critically analyse the behavior of the organizition would want as many options to hold them to account as possible.

Gardai want ban on people photographing and recording them on duty

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