Next in the Queue - Civil and Public Service Union

diomed

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

billyhead wrote: »

Is the salary figure quoted net or gross though?

C.O. pay scale gross : 21879 to 37341 after 23 years. Not great in my book.

Calculon1982

diomed wrote: »

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

Are you claiming I am making my situation up?

boobycharlton

diomed wrote: »

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

What's stopping people applying for civil service jobs if they are so cushy and attractive? entrance exams where you have to actually prove some competency? 19k net for new entrants?


The only upsides to civil service is flexi time and decent working conditions, ie not zero hours or 18-25 hour week contracts that private sector entry level jobs expect you to take with gratitude. New entrant CS wages are unlivable in Dublin, you will see how that impacts on levels of service once majority of experienced staff have retired, which is happening now already. Enjoy having exceedingly long waits for passports, responses from revenue, courts grinding to halt etc.

titan18

boobycharlton wrote: »

What's stopping people applying for civil service jobs if they are so cushy and attractive? entrance exams where you have to actually prove some competency? 19k net for new entrants?


The only upsides to civil service is flexi time and decent working conditions, ie not zero hours or 18-25 hour week contracts that private sector entry level jobs expect you to take with gratitude. New entrant CS wages are unlivable in Dublin, you will see how that impacts on levels of service once majority of experienced staff have retired, which is happening now already. Enjoy having exceedingly long waits for passports, responses from revenue, courts grinding to halt etc.

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

Calculon1982

titan18 wrote: »

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

Ignorant, insulting comment. No idea what you are talking about.

Arcade_Tryer

myshirt wrote: »

This narrative of using the term 'pay restoration' boils my blood each time. Just stop it. And stop it now. You were overpaid, vastly overpaid. There should be no "restoration". What there should be is a lesson learned and a more sensible public sector pay policy bedded down.

Nonsense. Ireland's public sector wage bill as a percentage of GDP was only slightly (1 to 2%) above the EU average at the height of the boom, and still below France and the Scandinavian countries. What makes this thread even more ridiculous is that it is in relation to pay restoration for the lowest grades in the Civil Service, who are paid quite a pitiful salary (circa 22k per annum). If you had started a thread on the salaries for Civil Servants at the very highest grades, pension entitlements for politicians and others in the recent past, and utter wastage such as Irish Water, you would find some sympathy. As it is, you're simply wrong statistically, and in every other sense.

titan18 wrote: »

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

So intelligent that not only have you claimed to make a truthful statement without any scientific or statistical evidence, but you've also used two words which mean the same thing to support your argument.

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Ignorant, insulting comment. No idea what you are talking about.

It was, but this is a serious question and not meant to be insulting.

Why do you still work there?

Could you get a better paying job in the private sector?

If I get to the point in my current job where another company will pay me more for the same or similar work, I'll ask for a pay raise and if it is not forthcoming I'll change employers.

Phoebas

Elisha Sharp Recorder wrote: »

C.O. pay scale gross : 21879 to 37341 after 23 years. Not great in my book.

On the other hand, if you manage to spend 23 years as a CO without getting a promotion then 37k is probably too high.

Calculon1982

amcalester wrote: »

It was, but this is a serious question and not meant to be insulting.

Why do you still work there?

Could you get a better paying job in the private sector?

If I get to the point in my current job where another company will pay me more for the same or similar work, I'll ask for a pay raise and if it is not forthcoming I'll change employers.

It's what I want to do. I have an interest in the field and like my colleagues. The work is important and impacts people's lives.

I just need it to pay some more and give me any promotion prospects. I'm not exactly lookin for a company car or something. Just something to justify my hard work and experience. The only way to do this is to fight for what I think I should have. Through organised action and protest.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Phoebas wrote: »

On the other hand, if you manage to spend 23 years as a CO without getting a promotion then 37k is probably too high.

That's a weak argument at best. €25k after 5 years isn't hectic either.

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

It's what I want to do. I have an interest in the field and like my colleagues. The work is important and impacts people's lives.

I just need it to pay some more and give me any promotion prospects. I'm not exactly lookin for a company car or something. Just something to justify my hard work and experience. The only way to do this is to fight for what I think I should have. Through organised action and protest.

And is the PS the only place you can do what you do?

I mean if what you do is of little economic value and you're easily replaceable then you "needing it to pay some more" is no reason to get a pay rise.

Theres a slight sense of entitlement of your post, basically saying you'll agitate for a raise for no other reason that you need it to pay some more.

Phoebas

Elisha Sharp Recorder wrote: »

That's a weak argument at best. €25k after 5 years isn't hectic either.

It's not great but it is for relatively low skilled clerical work.

I'd be in favour of a much shorter scale with larger increments.
In my experience of working as a CO in the CS many years ago, there were lots of good people who couldn't rise through the grades because of stupid seniority promotion rules and lots of wasters in the same grade for donkeys years, just threading water doing as little as they could possibly get away with.

diomed

I've never received increments in the private sector.

steddyeddy

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

diomed wrote: »

I've never received increments in the private sector.

I most certainly did. It was in the terms of the contract. Annual increment of CPI plus one at a minimum.

Arcade_Tryer

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

Criticism of the Civil Service seems to be a combination of mistruth and an endless stream of clichés in this thread.

Calculon1982

amcalester wrote: »

And is the PS the only place you can do what you do?

I mean if what you do is of little economic value and you're easily replaceable then you "needing it to pay some more" is no reason to get a pay rise.

Theres a slight sense of entitlement of your post, basically saying you'll agitate for a raise for no other reason that you need it to pay some more.

If working in an office for a company in Dublin city centre for 8 years and hoping to earn the average industial wage by the time I am 35 is living with a sense of entitlement then yes I am guilty of that.

I am subject to the ridiculous increment system. I am a valued employee who scores top marks in performance reviews but I can't approach my employer and seek a decent pay rise as a result of increasing expenditure usually encountered by someone at my stage of life.

Calculon1982

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

Didn't know the exams where rigged.

osarusan

Calculon1982 wrote: »

If working in an office for a company in Dublin city centre for 8 years and hoping to earn the average industial wage by the time I am 35 is living with a sense of entitlement then yes I am guilty of that.

I am subject to the ridiculous increment system. I am a valued employee who scores top marks in performance reviews but I can't approach my employer and seek a decent pay rise as a result of increasing expenditure usually encountered by someone at my stage of life.

There's no need for you to justify anything to anonymous chronic moaners.

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

If working in an office for a company in Dublin city centre for 8 years and hoping to earn the average industial wage by the time I am 35 is living with a sense of entitlement then yes I am guilty of that.

I am subject to the ridiculous increment system. I am a valued employee who scores top marks in performance reviews but I can't approach my employer and seek a decent pay rise as a result of increasing expenditure usually encountered by someone at my stage of life.

So why not leave? Because it's what you do and you like the people.

Your employer doesn't owe you a higher salary just because you have bigger bills.

Employees usually get a higher salary because they can offer more to their employer, you seem to want more money because you have more bills to pay.

How does your current salary compare to a similar role in the private sector?

steddyeddy

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Criticism of the Civil Service seems to be a combination of mistruth and an endless stream of clichés in this thread.

You are seriously telling me that nepotism isn't prevelant in the civil service?

Calculon1982

Didn't know the exams where rigged.

Phoebas

Anyone else find it strange that the CPSU are threatening industrial action only 3 days after they issued a notice to their members about the pay rises they are getting effective from just 7 days ago?

http://cpsu.ie/revised-pay-rates-applying-to-civil-servants-from-1-april-2017/


Seems like bad timing.

boobycharlton

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

Maybe CS was riddled with nepotism in the past but the ignorant claims of jobs for the boys doesn't ring true with me, and I've actually been through the recruitment process. I have no family ties to civil service. I completed aptitude tests in situational judgement, two exams in numerical and verbal reasoning, an interview, thorough reference checks, Garda vetting and only then was I assigned to a panel. It was several months before my panel number was reached. I believe that process to be as fair and transparent as it gets to be honest. Don't let facts get in the way of a good whine though sure.

Arcade_Tryer

steddyeddy wrote: »

You are seriously telling me that nepotism isn't prevelant in the civil service?

Do you have any evidence to say otherwise? The Public Appointments Service is an incredibly transparent recruitment service, and the application process is very stringent for the majority of positions. Perhaps at the very top of the Civil Service there is still questionable appointments to state boards and so on, but that does not filter through to the Civil Service as a whole.

Phoebas

I'd have thought that if you wanted to find an organisation with very little nepotism then the Irish Civil Service would fit the bill.

Recruitment is done via the Public Appointments Service, most recruitment is based off exams etc.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

You are seriously telling me that nepotism isn't prevelant in the civil service?

Yes.

Calculon1982

amcalester wrote: »

So why not leave? Because it's what you do and you like the people.

Your employer doesn't owe you a higher salary just because you have bigger bills.

Employees usually get a higher salary because they can offer more to their employer, you seem to want more money because you have more bills to pay.

How does your current salary compare to a similar role in the private sector?

Quite alot there and I'm now spending my ill-gotten gains in the pub so I'll leave it at this.

Firstly 18 months ago I approached HR and asked what skills shortages do they forsee the organisation encountering in the next couple of years. I was advised that due to the fact we where moving to more online services we will need web development skills and that we didn't really have anyone with those. I enrolled in an evening course and retrained as a web developer to ensure I could continue to contribute at a decent level.

Secondly without getting too West Wing about it I believe in public service. As a tax payer I expect when I need use of public services that I won't encounter some illiterate idiot on the other side of the counter or phone. I want to be a public servant. Would you prefer we who actually give a **** headed on and in 10 years you can be back here giving out about the crap service you received from some unqualified tool in the passport office or whatever.

titan18

Well, I know people in the public sector who are depressed sitting in an office with people who've got fcuk all interest in doing any work at all, and I'm sure we've all seen several council workers standing around a pot hole/ drain cover.

Also, how many people do you know who want to deal with bureaucracy along with a slowness to do things and resistance to change.