Next in the Queue - Civil and Public Service Union

myshirt

They have the paw out and they want their money. And they want you to pay for it.

What say thee After Hours?

For me, avoidance of repeating the mistakes made with public service pay is a much, much larger and critical issue than the issues with housing policy at the moment, we have to try bed down stability, resilience, and sensibility in our economic model and public finances.

This narrative of using the term 'pay restoration' boils my blood each time. Just stop it. And stop it now. You were overpaid, vastly overpaid. There should be no "restoration". What there should be is a lesson learned and a more sensible public sector pay policy bedded down.

CoolHandBandit

Keep dreaming. We don't learn lessons in this country like we should.

Ulysses Gaze

myshirt wrote: »

They have the paw out and they want their money. And they want you to pay for it.

What say thee After Hours?

For me, avoidance of repeating the mistakes made with public service pay is a much, much larger and critical issue than the issues with housing policy at the moment, we have to try bed down stability, resilience, and sensibility in our economic model and public finances.

This narrative of using the term 'pay restoration' boils my blood each time. Just stop it. And stop it now. You were overpaid, vastly overpaid. There should be no "restoration". What there should be is a lesson learned and a more sensible public sector pay policy bedded down.

The Government needs to use this time to break the unions in this country.

So they need to be strong in this, and every instance, and say "No Deal."

Of course, that won't happen because Politicians care more about getting elected than running the country properly.

Wheeliebin30

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The Government needs to use this time to break the unions in this country.

So they need to be strong in this, and every instance, say "No Deal."

But the goverment can't catch a break when the usual anti this and won't pay for anything brigade are constantly making huge issues out of trivial things.

Protesting against water charges when there is so much more important things to be tackled.

_Brian

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The Government needs to use this time to break the unions in this country.

So they need to be strong in this, and every instance, say "No Deal."

Of course, that won't happen because Politicians care more about getting elected than running the country properly.

The Government need to lead by example.
But no, first thing they did when tax receipts were up is they granted themselves pay rises. This was the signal that it's open season.

If people are looking for someone to blame start at the top where they set the ball
In motion.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The_Valeyard

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Didnt realise they broke the country. There was me thinking it was speculators, corrupt bankers, incompetent regulators and dodgy deals with politicians. (nearly all of whom have remained quite pampered throughout the crises)

Barry Badrinath

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Who helped bring the country to its knees and how?

For Forks Sake

_Brian wrote: »

The Government need to lead by example.
But no, first thing they did when tax receipts were up is they granted themselves pay rises. This was the signal that it's open season.

If people are looking for someone to blame start at the top where they set the ball
In motion.

Politicians don't decide their own pay,and haven't done since the recession (and rightly so), the recent rise was linked to a pay restoration due to civil servants under the Haddington Rd agreement but it would appear to be too much effort for our bone idle media to report such a basic fact.

Phoebas

_Brian wrote: »

The Government need to lead by example.
But no, first thing they did when tax receipts were up is they granted themselves pay rises. This was the signal that it's open season.

If people are looking for someone to blame start at the top where they set the ball
In motion.

TDs pay is linked directly to civil servants pay, so they didn't grant themselves pay rises; civil servants got pay rises and they were included in that.

everlast75

Phoebas wrote: »

TDs pay is linked directly to civil servants pay, so they didn't grant themselves pay rises; civil servants got pay rises and they were included in that.

Which they could have refused to take - therefore they did effectively grant a payrise to themselves

Calculon1982

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I am a public servant in my mid 30s earning under 30k a year in Dublin. I have multiple qualifications and work hard. My role requires detailed knowledge of planning legislation, stakeholder management etc. I have been there for 8 years. I commute 3 hours a day as I can't afford to live with my wife in Dublin on that salary.

What part of me is pampered?

uck51js9zml2yt

Civil servants got their pay slashed, deductions made that will give them no benefit and longer working hours for free.
Time has come to get it back l, particularly when take home pay is 20euro more than social welfare for a family before travel costs etc are taken into account.

Uriel.

everlast75 wrote: »

Which they could have refused to take - therefore they did effectively grant a payrise to themselves

No, they didn't.

Phoebas

everlast75 wrote: »

Which they could have refused to take - therefore they did effectively grant a payrise to themselves

That's daft.
If I (or anyone else) gets a pay rise, and I accept it, I haven't granted it to myself.

And who turns down a pay rise? I never have and never would.
Would you?

Uriel.

Calculon1982 wrote: »

I am a public servant in my mid 30s earning under 30k a year in Dublin. I have multiple qualifications and work hard. My role requires detailed knowledge of planning legislation, stakeholder management etc. I have been there for 8 years. I commute 3 hours a day as I can't afford to live with my wife in Dublin on that salary.

What part of me is pampered?

I don't believe the PS is pampered but to be fair your circumstances are not the norm in the CS

Widdershins

The greed is sickening. People who have plenty and still want more.

everlast75

Phoebas wrote: »

That's daft.
If I (or anyone else) gets a pay rise, and I accept it, I haven't granted it to myself.

And who turns down a pay rise? I never have and never would.
Would you?

You have the option of taking it or not. Therefore whether you take it or not is your choice. Couldn't be clearer. You're arguing over terminology.

As to whether i would take a payrise or not, you picked the wrong poster to ask... because i did turn a payrise down about 3 years ago.

Again though - you are missing the point. I'm not an overpaid politician who is telling others to not expect a payrise in these "tough times". They could lead by example.

Wheeliebin30

everlast75 wrote: »

You have the option of taking it or not. Therefore whether you take it or not is your choice. Couldn't be clearer. You're arguing over terminology.

As to whether i would take a payrise or not, you picked the wrong poster to ask... because i did turn a payrise down about 3 years ago.

Again though - you are missing the point. I'm not an overpaid politician who is telling others to not expect a payrise in these "tough times". They could lead by example.

Do you think been a politician in modern Ireland is easy and they don't deserve a pay rise like others?

It's probably one of the worst and stressful jobs going right now with the abuse and heckling they receive each day. Even death threats in some cases.

Phoebas

As was already pointed out, politician's pay is not decided by themselves, so they didn't give themselves any pay rise.
You have to cover one eye and squint hard with the other one to see it any other way.

Anyway, why is a thread about the CPSU threatening strike being dragged off topic into yet another anti politician thread? The CPSU represent clerical workers - the lowest paid grades in the civil service.

Turtyturd

Sounds like the Op failed his CO aptitude tests...better luck next time.

myshirt

Turtyturd wrote: »

Sounds like the Op failed his CO aptitude tests...better luck next time.

Have you been out of the house today at all?

How many millionaire guards do we have down the quays at the moment smoking cigars and eating lobster?

There is a serious cultural issue here, and it's feeding right down to the Civil & Public Service union. For a long time I thought we're just looking at a lack of financially literate people and this would filter out as education got better and people came to their senses, but in fact there is something way more sinister at play here. The absolute gall of these guys is flabbergasting.

Donal55

myshirt wrote: »

They have the paw out and they want their money. And they want you to pay for it.

What say thee After Hours?

For me, avoidance of repeating the mistakes made with public service pay is a much, much larger and critical issue than the issues with housing policy at the moment, we have to try bed down stability, resilience, and sensibility in our economic model and public finances.

This narrative of using the term 'pay restoration' boils my blood each time. Just stop it. And stop it now. You were overpaid, vastly overpaid. There should be no "restoration". What there should be is a lesson learned and a more sensible public sector pay policy bedded down.

Too late. I got the first tranche in yesterday's pay packet.

_Brian

Phoebas wrote: »

That's daft.
If I (or anyone else) gets a pay rise, and I accept it, I haven't granted it to myself.

And who turns down a pay rise? I never have and never would.
Would you?

WHO ??

Those who are telling everyone else in public/civil service that the country can't afford to give pay rises, thats who !

Leaders are supposed to lead, not further prove that the whole country is built upon a two tier system..

They sent out the wrong message by granting/accepting/arranging pay increases for themselves ahead of every other public/civil servant and then say there's no money left !

Parchment

Calculon1982 wrote: »

I am a public servant in my mid 30s earning under 30k a year in Dublin. I have multiple qualifications and work hard. My role requires detailed knowledge of planning legislation, stakeholder management etc. I have been there for 8 years. I commute 3 hours a day as I can't afford to live with my wife in Dublin on that salary.

What part of me is pampered?

I am also a lower waged public servant with qualifications. i work hard as do my colleagues, we have taken on more hours with no wage increase and had our wages cut buy the government with no restoration.

We are not people who go in a scratch our arses all day. the big boys at the top get big money - but the majority of ordinary people who keep the show running do not. People who p!ss on public and civil servants reputations make me sick. People who say we are in a cushy number and we have it all - publicjobs.ie is where anyone and everyone can apply, feel free.

Phoebas

_Brian wrote: »

WHO ??

Those who are telling everyone else in public/civil service that the country can't afford to give pay rises, thats who !

Leaders are supposed to lead, not further prove that the whole country is built upon a two tier system..

They sent out the wrong message by granting/accepting/arranging pay increases for themselves ahead of every other public/civil servant and then say there's no money left !

Why are you persisting with this lie when it has already being pointed out to you on this thread that TD's pay rises aren't decided by TDs but were part of wider public service pay restoration?

MRnotlob606

START SLASHING THE DOLE. GET THOSE SCROUNGERS OFF THEIR ARSES. SELL OFF COUNCIL HOUSING TO PRIVATE VULTURE FIRMS. PUT THE HOMELESS IN PRISON. PRIVATISE HEALTHCARE. BRING BACK HANGING.

4DGY OPINONS M8

R4SP4XT

dr.fuzzenstein

Christ, I'm deaf now.

boobycharlton

Widdershins wrote: »

The greed is sickening. People who have plenty and still want more.

19k net a year is sickening greed now? that's take home pay of a new civil servant, good luck trying to live on that in Dublin (where majority of jobs are located) If you want the worst candidate possible looking after your tax, courts, garda, passport, immigration, health service admin business etc then fair enough. Just don't complain when the system becomes infinitely worse than it is now, once what's left of the experienced staff retires.

ChikiChiki

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

But the goverment can't catch a break when the usual anti this and won't pay for anything brigade are constantly making huge issues out of trivial things.

Protesting against water charges when there is so much more important things to be tackled.

Stop, just stop. I encourage you to dig deep and especially look at the acquisitions prior to IW being set up and why most people really protested. TD Catherine Murphy has done brilliant work here. I am constantly seeing the movement being referred to as the anti- everything movement. Such utter bull****. I pay more tax than most people in the country and many of my fellow protesters were the same.

Don't compare please. The anti IW movement was one of the best things to ever rise up in this country.

billyhead

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't believe the PS is pampered but to be fair your circumstances are not the norm in the CS

Is the salary figure quoted net or gross though?

diomed

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

billyhead wrote: »

Is the salary figure quoted net or gross though?

C.O. pay scale gross : 21879 to 37341 after 23 years. Not great in my book.

Calculon1982

diomed wrote: »

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

Are you claiming I am making my situation up?

boobycharlton

diomed wrote: »

I will believe the hardship stories when I see large numbers of public service workers applying for private sector jobs.

What's stopping people applying for civil service jobs if they are so cushy and attractive? entrance exams where you have to actually prove some competency? 19k net for new entrants?


The only upsides to civil service is flexi time and decent working conditions, ie not zero hours or 18-25 hour week contracts that private sector entry level jobs expect you to take with gratitude. New entrant CS wages are unlivable in Dublin, you will see how that impacts on levels of service once majority of experienced staff have retired, which is happening now already. Enjoy having exceedingly long waits for passports, responses from revenue, courts grinding to halt etc.

titan18

boobycharlton wrote: »

What's stopping people applying for civil service jobs if they are so cushy and attractive? entrance exams where you have to actually prove some competency? 19k net for new entrants?


The only upsides to civil service is flexi time and decent working conditions, ie not zero hours or 18-25 hour week contracts that private sector entry level jobs expect you to take with gratitude. New entrant CS wages are unlivable in Dublin, you will see how that impacts on levels of service once majority of experienced staff have retired, which is happening now already. Enjoy having exceedingly long waits for passports, responses from revenue, courts grinding to halt etc.

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

Calculon1982

titan18 wrote: »

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

Ignorant, insulting comment. No idea what you are talking about.

Arcade_Tryer

myshirt wrote: »

This narrative of using the term 'pay restoration' boils my blood each time. Just stop it. And stop it now. You were overpaid, vastly overpaid. There should be no "restoration". What there should be is a lesson learned and a more sensible public sector pay policy bedded down.

Nonsense. Ireland's public sector wage bill as a percentage of GDP was only slightly (1 to 2%) above the EU average at the height of the boom, and still below France and the Scandinavian countries. What makes this thread even more ridiculous is that it is in relation to pay restoration for the lowest grades in the Civil Service, who are paid quite a pitiful salary (circa 22k per annum). If you had started a thread on the salaries for Civil Servants at the very highest grades, pension entitlements for politicians and others in the recent past, and utter wastage such as Irish Water, you would find some sympathy. As it is, you're simply wrong statistically, and in every other sense.

titan18 wrote: »

Personally and anecdotally, it's cos we're too intelligent to sit in a dead end job doing nothing half the week when there are jobs available where we can actually use some intelligence.

So intelligent that not only have you claimed to make a truthful statement without any scientific or statistical evidence, but you've also used two words which mean the same thing to support your argument.

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Ignorant, insulting comment. No idea what you are talking about.

It was, but this is a serious question and not meant to be insulting.

Why do you still work there?

Could you get a better paying job in the private sector?

If I get to the point in my current job where another company will pay me more for the same or similar work, I'll ask for a pay raise and if it is not forthcoming I'll change employers.

Phoebas

Elisha Sharp Recorder wrote: »

C.O. pay scale gross : 21879 to 37341 after 23 years. Not great in my book.

On the other hand, if you manage to spend 23 years as a CO without getting a promotion then 37k is probably too high.

Calculon1982

amcalester wrote: »

It was, but this is a serious question and not meant to be insulting.

Why do you still work there?

Could you get a better paying job in the private sector?

If I get to the point in my current job where another company will pay me more for the same or similar work, I'll ask for a pay raise and if it is not forthcoming I'll change employers.

It's what I want to do. I have an interest in the field and like my colleagues. The work is important and impacts people's lives.

I just need it to pay some more and give me any promotion prospects. I'm not exactly lookin for a company car or something. Just something to justify my hard work and experience. The only way to do this is to fight for what I think I should have. Through organised action and protest.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Phoebas wrote: »

On the other hand, if you manage to spend 23 years as a CO without getting a promotion then 37k is probably too high.

That's a weak argument at best. €25k after 5 years isn't hectic either.

amcalester

Calculon1982 wrote: »

It's what I want to do. I have an interest in the field and like my colleagues. The work is important and impacts people's lives.

I just need it to pay some more and give me any promotion prospects. I'm not exactly lookin for a company car or something. Just something to justify my hard work and experience. The only way to do this is to fight for what I think I should have. Through organised action and protest.

And is the PS the only place you can do what you do?

I mean if what you do is of little economic value and you're easily replaceable then you "needing it to pay some more" is no reason to get a pay rise.

Theres a slight sense of entitlement of your post, basically saying you'll agitate for a raise for no other reason that you need it to pay some more.

Phoebas

Elisha Sharp Recorder wrote: »

That's a weak argument at best. €25k after 5 years isn't hectic either.

It's not great but it is for relatively low skilled clerical work.

I'd be in favour of a much shorter scale with larger increments.
In my experience of working as a CO in the CS many years ago, there were lots of good people who couldn't rise through the grades because of stupid seniority promotion rules and lots of wasters in the same grade for donkeys years, just threading water doing as little as they could possibly get away with.

diomed

I've never received increments in the private sector.

steddyeddy

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

diomed wrote: »

I've never received increments in the private sector.

I most certainly did. It was in the terms of the contract. Annual increment of CPI plus one at a minimum.

Arcade_Tryer

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

Criticism of the Civil Service seems to be a combination of mistruth and an endless stream of clichés in this thread.

Calculon1982

amcalester wrote: »

And is the PS the only place you can do what you do?

I mean if what you do is of little economic value and you're easily replaceable then you "needing it to pay some more" is no reason to get a pay rise.

Theres a slight sense of entitlement of your post, basically saying you'll agitate for a raise for no other reason that you need it to pay some more.

If working in an office for a company in Dublin city centre for 8 years and hoping to earn the average industial wage by the time I am 35 is living with a sense of entitlement then yes I am guilty of that.

I am subject to the ridiculous increment system. I am a valued employee who scores top marks in performance reviews but I can't approach my employer and seek a decent pay rise as a result of increasing expenditure usually encountered by someone at my stage of life.

Calculon1982

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Irish civil service is an extended family and tribute to nepotism.

Didn't know the exams where rigged.

osarusan

Calculon1982 wrote: »

If working in an office for a company in Dublin city centre for 8 years and hoping to earn the average industial wage by the time I am 35 is living with a sense of entitlement then yes I am guilty of that.

I am subject to the ridiculous increment system. I am a valued employee who scores top marks in performance reviews but I can't approach my employer and seek a decent pay rise as a result of increasing expenditure usually encountered by someone at my stage of life.

There's no need for you to justify anything to anonymous chronic moaners.