Sexual Harassment Caught on Video

Widdershins · 02-04-2017 11:45pm

Candie wrote: »

Let's leave the diagnosis to the psychiatric professionals. Talk of psychotic breaks and sectioning is a bit ridiculous on the basis of a video of someone being obnoxious.

I thought it had moved on to people with serious behaviour in general and when and why they are locked up. I have said already I'm not diagnosing her and there are numerous reasons, that don't spell long term problems, for people to behave erratically. It's a bit hard not to speculate since she's a stranger and nobody knows anything about her. Calling her pure scum is also speculation. And it is not a bad discussion to have imo since its actually not as rare thing as people think and it's no harm for people to have an idea of what might be going on if someone starts behaving very weirdly out of the blue. As the previous poster sort of illustrated with the story of hs neighbour who told him she needed to go to St. Ita's. He wouldn't have known if she hadn't managed to tell him that much.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-04-2017 11:55pm

Your one may have a screw loose but the guy is a dick for goading intentionally to get a reaction and putting it on Youtube.

What is that suppose to achieve? Punishment? That could wreck someone's life. That's intentional harm, does not matter what you think of the views of the individual.

As I said if I come across someone like the woman in the video I just ignore them. No point in engaging.

kittensmittens · 03-04-2017 12:00am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Your one may have a screw loose but the guy is a dick for goading intentionally to get a reaction and putting it on Youtube.

What is that suppose to achieve? Punishment? That could wreck someone's life. That's intentional harm.

As I said if I come across someone like the woman in the video I just ignore them. No point in engaging.

Really???
And you'd be fine with them calling your wife/partner a "slut/whore/prostitute/ugly bitch/skank" to name but a few???

Goading?
Reaction?
I think not. They both showed remarkable restraint tbh.

On a side note, has anyone an image/pic of the woman in the couple that was getting called names?

Kermit.de.frog · 03-04-2017 12:03am

kittensmittens wrote: »

Really???
And you'd be fine with them calling your wife/partner a "slut/whore/prostitute/ugly bitch/skank" to name but a few???

Goading?
Reaction?
I think not. They both showed remarkable restraint tbh.

Lets accept your premise (which I think is wrong) that she was not being goaded.

What is the objective of putting it on Youtube?

Do you see how that could damage someone's life if it goes viral?

What is the purpose of that? What does it achieve? It's to teach the woman a lesson is it?

the_pen_turner · 03-04-2017 12:05am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Lets accept your premise (which I think is wrong) that she was not being goaded.

What is the objective of putting it on Youtube?

Do you see how that could damage someone's life if it goes viral?

What is the purpose of that? What does it achieve?

why would you care if an evil person (assuming she is not insane) like this get her life ruined. it would be all her own doing.

03-04-2017 12:08am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

why would you care if an evil person (assuming she is not insane) like this get her life ruined. it would be all her own doing.

It's kind of disproportionate, no? A person behaves really badly, no doubt about that, but does it really deserve ruination?

The more I think about it the more I feel putting it online was an over the top move, even if they did feel she got what she deserved, which is also understandable given the things she said.

Nobody comes out of this looking like a hero.

kittensmittens · 03-04-2017 12:09am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Lets accept your premise (which I think is wrong) that she was not being goaded.

What is the objective of putting it on Youtube?

Do you see how that could damage someone's life if it goes viral?

What is the purpose of that? What does it achieve?

What I would hope it would do is to bring people back to a time that behaving yourself and minding your mouth an manners in public was the norm.
Because of consequences.
Ok, so today the consequences are your mug all over social media, but thats todays method. Years ago, you behaved badly in public, carried on abusively to others, the method to remind you of good social grace was different but none the less it was there(may have been the local telegraph, but you get the point)

Point being, you can't just act the d1ck and expect no consequences.
She was HORRIBLE to that woman. No excuses for it. NONE.

yoke · 03-04-2017 12:10am

Widdershins wrote: »

I'd call it common sense to deal with it differently, not extra niceness

Well, they made a judgement call. It seems they made the right one because the bully backed down and went away. Why should they be criticised for acting the way they did? Why should they have to live by this woman's rules about what is acceptable public behaviour?

And it applies to the staff as well as the couple

agreed on this - the staff needs to be told by their management to take control of situations like this and clarify the rules of the establishment to whomever was at fault.

After a period of engaging when she's getting worse instead of calming down it becomes clear she's not logical and that's enough reason to stop engaging.

Stopping engagement isn't any more likely to work than any other course of action. If it's a bona fide "insane" person they are just as likely to stab you in the back in front of everyone, even though you never talked to them, because the voices in their head told them to do it. Basically you can't predict a criminally insane person (they're insane) so it's stupid to try and tailor your responses to them. Better off focussing on the other 90% of people who find themselves in this situation who are just assholes or bullies - and the better course of action in both those scenarios is to confront them.

As for views set in stone, you've angrily decided she's purely a prick, so it's not me who has those set views. If that was me I'd be more bemused than angry.

Once again, you're assuming I'm angry despite not knowing anything for sure. You're "fishing" to see what I respond to, and it's not a particularly clever strategy when confronted with something you don't know much about

You're VERY sensitive.

why, thank you - that's a nice compliment

I could easily say the same about your comments to me.

please feel free to point out exactly where I have done the same, and I shall point out what one of your comments it was in response to.

Well if you imply someone's clueless you can expect your own lack of understanding to be pointed out.

Please feel free to point out exactly where this is, as I (obviously) don't see it.

You previously said the couple couldn't have been expected to consider the woman's mentally ill, since she was out on her own in public.

Well, I will stand by my statement that I see no reason to assume the woman is "mentally ill" based on her behaviour in the video. Why would you assume otherwise?
Please point out the exact bits in the video where she shows tell-tale signs, and of what affliction.

I am fully aware of the meaning of ''condone''

I'm sure you are now, but I'm also sure that you weren't at the start of this discussion.

I neither approved of nor suggested anyone ignore her behaviour and do nothing about it. I suggested they ignore her

Ahem

when it became clear engaging was getting nowhere AND call the police or have her removed by staff-who also behaved ineffectually. Try to read the full sentence.

No, you did not. All you have to do is read the few pages before to see exactly what you suggested, which was and continues to be that "the couple is at fault for posting the video to the internet, and the people in the establishment behaved badly towards the woman".

You consistently disregard/condone the woman's prior behaviour towards everyone there, while you make the points above.

Kermit.de.frog · 03-04-2017 12:10am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

why would you care if an evil person (assuming she is not insane) like this get her life ruined. it would be all her own doing.

So revenge porn is also acceptable if applied to anyone who seriously offends you or you despise their opinion, unstable or not?

My philosophy is simpler. Lots of people do ****ed up stuff for whatever reason at some stage in their lives. I don't think anybody should have the right to set out to do potentially very serious harm to anyone in this way.

It's not right.

the_pen_turner · 03-04-2017 12:12am

its a pitty when she asked for a refund that the staff didnt take out the money and refund the couple.
i probably would have.
might have made her loose whatever shreed of dignity she had left

Kermit.de.frog · 03-04-2017 12:15am

kittensmittens wrote: »

What I would hope it would do is to bring people back to a time that behaving yourself and minding your mouth an manners in public was the norm.
Because of consequences.
Ok, so today the consequences are your mug all over social media, but thats todays method. Years ago, you behaved badly in public, carried on abusively to others, the method to remind you of good social grace was different but none the less it was there(may have been the local telegraph, but you get the point)

Point being, you can't just act the d1ck and expect no consequences.
She was HORRIBLE to that woman. No excuses for it. NONE.

We are talking about Youtube here, not your local newspaper. And when ever has something like that ended up in a local paper? Anyone watching that can see the woman is not all there.

the_pen_turner · 03-04-2017 12:16am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So revenge porn is also acceptable if applied to anyone who seriously offends you or you despise their opinion, unstable or not?

My philosophy is simpler. Lots of people do ****ed up stuff for whatever reason at some stage in their lives. I don't think anybody should have the right to set out to do potentially very serious harm to anyone in this way.

It's not right.

reveng porn is completly different. that is wrong.
what happened here was in no way private. the woman had no expectation to privacy. it was a public place and she instegated the abuse.

the_pen_turner · 03-04-2017 12:19am

if this happend years ago it woullnt be filmed but everybody in the county would hear about itthrough the grapevine or busybody hotline. i still hear people talking about this sort of stuff from 20 years ago
there isnt much diference between years ago and now except that it is saved for ever

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 12:20am

yoke wrote: »

Well, they made a judgement call. It seems they made the right one because the bully backed down and went away. Why should they be criticised for acting the way they did? Why should they have to live by this woman's rules about what is acceptable public behaviour?
(Quote)

What makes you think she wouldn't have left regardless of the cause of her outburst. Are you assuming all genuine mentally ill peoples outbursts cumlinate in attempted murder or something?

(Quote)Stopping engagement isn't any more likely to work than any other course of action. If it's a bona fide "insane" person they are just as likely to stab you in the back in front of everyone, even though you never talked to them, because the voices in their head told them to do it. Basically you can't predict a criminally insane person (they're insane) so it's stupid to try and tailor your responses to them. Better off focussing on the other 90% of people who find themselves in this situation who are just assholes or bullies - and the better course of action in both those scenarios is to confront them.
(Quote)

Hm. Most mentally ill people like that aren't violent. Not to the extent of stabbing people. Except is stupid horror films. That is a sad misconception.

(Quote) Once again, you're assuming I'm angry despite not knowing anything for sure. You're "fishing" to see what I respond to, and it's not a particularly clever strategy when confronted with something you don't know much about
(Quote)

I've no strategy, or interest in angering you. Your use of swear words made me think you were or would be quite irate about it.

(Quote)why, thank you - that's a nice compliment

please feel free to point out exactly where I have done the same, and I shall point out what one of your comments it was in response to.
(Quote)

I don't enjoy trawling back through comments for point scoring-perhaps I was wrong, if so I apologise.

Please feel free to point out exactly where this is, as I (obviously) don't see it.

(Quote)Well, I will stand by my statement that I see no reason to assume the woman is "mentally ill" based on her behaviour in the video. Why would you assume otherwise?
Please point out the exact bits in the video where she shows tell-tale signs, and of what affliction.
(Quote)

Already did.

I'm sure you are now, but I'm also sure that you weren't at the start of this discussion.

Ahem

Are you trying to be annoying by cutting the end off the sentence to pervert my meaning?

(Quote)No, you did not. All you have to do is read the few pages before to see exactly what you suggested, which was and continues to be that "the couple is at fault for posting the video to the internet, and the people in the establishment behaved badly towards the woman".
(Quote)

I didn't say that.

You consistently disregard/condone the woman's prior behaviour towards everyone there, while you make the points above.

No, I didn't, stop chopping the second half of my sentence off to make it appear that way.

kittensmittens · 03-04-2017 12:24am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We are talking about Youtube here, not your local newspaper. And when ever has something like that ended up in a local paper? Anyone watching that can see the woman is not all there.

I meant "local telegraph" as in word of mouth etc but neither her nor there.

Look, you can say she isn't all there...I'm not buying it and quite frankly I could care less.
I have seen clips of people in their everyday life with genuine mental health issues whose clips have been uploaded and its abhorrent to me.

This? This isn't the case here.
This woman is taking out her own issues(and not mental health issues) like jealousy, aggression, nastiness on this woman who I would bet the FARM that is slimmer and better looking than her.

Kermit.de.frog · 03-04-2017 12:24am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

reveng porn is completly different. that is wrong.
what happened here was in no way private. the woman had no expectation to privacy. it was a public place and she instegated the abuse.

A Youtube video could do just as much psychological or life harming (employment prospects, social, self esteem etc) damage as revenge porn.

How do you know she instegated it? The video does not definitively show whether she did or did not.

This is what I take real issue with in videos like this. It could be all straight up, I don't know. However it tends to be the "producer" letting you see what they want you to see and may well not be the full story.

As I said I always approach videos that are put up to target anyone with suspicion. Her behaviour in the video is off the wall but I prefer to keep an open mind as much as possible.

the_pen_turner · 03-04-2017 12:29am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A Youtube video could do just as much psychological or life harming (employment prospects, social etc) damage as revenge porn.

How do you know she instegated it? The video does not definitively show whether she did or did not.

This is what I take real issue with in videos like this. It could be all straight up, I don't know. However it tends to be the "producer" letting you see what they want you to see and may well not be the full story.

As I said I always approach videos that are put up to target anyone with suspicion. Her behaviour in the video is off the wall but I prefer to keep an open mind as much as possible.

i agree 100%. we dont know the whole story.
your right we are asuming she started it.
something else must have happened before the clip for the camera to ome out. .

assuming everything happened as the clip sugests then i woiuldnt care if it ruined her life. not a great attitude i know but she diserves it.

what she is saying can do a lot of damge aswell. especially if there was no clip to counter it.

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 12:32am

kittensmittens wrote: »

Look, you can say she isn't all there...I'm not buying it and quite frankly I could care less.
I have seen clips of people in their everyday life with genuine mental health issues whose clips have been uploaded and its abhorrent to me.

Because they're nice, harmless people, unlike her?

Kermit.de.frog · 03-04-2017 12:34am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i agree 100%. we dont know the whole story.
your right we are asuming she started it.
something else must have happened before the clip for the camera to ome out. .

assuming everything happened as the clip sugests then i woiuldnt care if it ruined her life. not a great attitude i know but she diserves it.

what she is saying can do a lot of damge aswell. especially if there was no clip to counter it.

What she says is disgusting. I just don't think the guy's punishment for her matches the crime.

I'm not surprised the original video was removed.

Arghus · 03-04-2017 12:42am

Having watched it all I can say is that I find the video depressing and wonder why it's made it's way to the internet. Who needs this, honestly? She's obviously a bit gone in the head, we all meet people like this from time to time. I've never thought, man I can't wait to put this up on youtube.

Which is to say: she displays horrible behavior in the video, but, in a way, putting it and her all over the internet to be watched and remembered at large is pretty ugly too, if you ask me.

kittensmittens · 03-04-2017 12:47am

Widdershins wrote: »

Because they're nice, harmless people, unlike her?

I was more thinking about the ones where people were filmed for "sport".
Vulnerable people. Vulnerable and in most cases harmless. But not always. I saw an awful one the other day of a drug addicted woman in some SA country and it was graphic but incredibly sad too.
So no, not because they're nice, harmless people.
Just because right is right.

You cannot just volley abuse at another person.
Because you don't like that a couple has a kiss in public!!!
The woman in this is the master of her own downfall. I don't for a single second buy any MH issues. I do buy nasty and self entitled.
She was caught being the nasty person she is, on camera.
No excuses.

kittensmittens · 03-04-2017 12:57am

Also, since when has minding your own business been done away with??

Dont like a special needs couple kissing? Look away
Dont like a GAY couple kissing? Look away
Dont like an inter-racial couple out on a date? Look away

If any of the above had been in the clip and she had reacted the way she had, she wouldn't have been having mental health issues. Just a bigot, a racist or a sh1thead.

She gets to verbally abuse the woman with awful, awful names but that's ok. Its a mental health issue. :rolleyes:
Give over.

Junkyard Tom · 03-04-2017 1:00am

In all my years on Earth I can confidently say anyone I've known who had 'mental health issues' are loathe to avoid confrontations with people they don't know rather than seeking them out.

I bugs me that people seek to excuse shit-headed behaviour by attributing it to 'mental illness'. Some people are assholes - it doesn't require a pseudo-scientific explanation - they're just assholes.

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 1:19am

kittensmittens wrote: »

Also, since when has minding your own business been done away with??

Dont like a special needs couple kissing? Look away
Dont like a GAY couple kissing? Look away
Dont like an inter-racial couple out on a date? Look away

If any of the above had been in the clip and she had reacted the way she had, she wouldn't have been having mental health issues. Just a bigot, a racist or a sh1thead.

She gets to verbally abuse the woman with awful, awful names but that's ok. Its a mental health issue. :rolleyes:
Give over.

No.I'd still think, from her demeanour et. cetera, she could be mentally ill.
And nobody said what she said was ok.
By the way, racism was part of her tirade. She made comment to someone she believed was foreign, I think.

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 1:23am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

In all my years on Earth I can confidently say anyone I've known who had 'mental health issues' are loathe to avoid confrontations with people they don't know rather than seeking them out.

I bugs me that people seek to excuse shit-headed behaviour by attributing it to 'mental illness'. Some people are assholes - it doesn't require a pseudo-scientific explanation - they're just assholes.

Again, there is a difference between a reason, and an excuse. And I've seen quite an array of behaviours from mentally ill people. I shared links that explained that symptoms can very greatly from person to person, and they weren't particularly pseudo scientific unless you class psychology as pseudoscience.

yoke · 03-04-2017 1:26am

Widdershins wrote: »

What makes you think she wouldn't have left regardless of the cause of her outburst. Are you assuming all genuine mentally ill peoples outbursts cumlinate in attempted murder or something?

You keep conflating "dangerous to the public" with "mentally ill". They are not one and the same. What part of "dangerous to the public" do you not understand? I'm aware of quite a few cases where this is sadly true and has happened right here in Dublin. It's a lot more common than you might think. "Mentally ill" is a meaningless term medically, it doesn't refer to any condition or specific set of conditions, so you cannot say if someone is "mentally ill" or "not mentally ill" in medical terms. Maybe everyone is "mentally ill" by your definition.

What's more, it looks to me like she originally intended to sit down with her meal in the cafe, but changed her mind due to the altercation, demanded her money back, and left.

Hm. Most mentally ill people like that aren't violent. Not to the extent of stabbing people. Except is stupid horror films. That is a sad misconception.

People who have psychiatric problems and are dangerous to the public and aggressive and also have psychiatric issues are inherently violent, why else would they be deemed dangerous to the public?
Once again I believe you are talking about something that you have not much knowledge of, as you are completely wrong and stabbings/assaults by people with psychiatric troubles are relatively common, considering the small percentage of the population that fits into this category to begin with. To give you a clue - a lot of heroin addicts in Dublin are also psychiatric patients - 2 sides to every story. If I say "stabbed by a heroin addict" a lot of people will react differently to "stabbed by a patient receiving psychiatric care" although I could be talking about the same person.

[/Quote]
Already did [referring to what affliction you saw telltale signs of in the video, and when][/quote]
Did you? I haven't seen any response from you stating "at 02:49 in the video we see signs of Dementia" or whatever.

Are you trying to be annoying by cutting the end off the sentence to pervert my meaning?

No, I'm trying to highlight how you keep changing/adding to what you said to try and fit into what you think you can defend

I didn't say that

Here's a quick unabridged example of something you have said that might jog your memory. Notice how you dwell on the faults of everyone else which were in reaction to the woman's behaviour, which you might have understood quite easily if you did not simply suggest everyone condone the woman's behaviour because she may be in need of psychiatric care:

It felt a bit off to me, watching it. Clearly she's crazy but none of them seemed interested in setting the record straight and I was left confused. If that was me on the recieving end of her rant and I felt I had to record it for evidence I'd make sure I stated my side of the story and I wouldn't be dragging it out and almost seeming to enjoy her carry on. And the lad she insulted about his race, or his girlfriend's race, went up to her and shoved her. His girlfriend went and intervened, but not a word was said about that here. Is it an acceptable free for all when people get tired of the mad ramblings of a mentally ill woman? I'm assuming mental illness since she didn't seem at all rational, she was having a rage reaction and doesn't seem to understand what intercourse involves. Is it a case of she deserved whatever she got? What if he'd landed a punch?

They shouldn't have engaged with her and dragged it out. And using it as a dig at people who voted this way or that is a bit cheap and a bit of a stretch.

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 1:32am

yoke wrote: »

You keep conflating "dangerous to the public" with "mentally ill". They are not one and the same. What part of "dangerous to the public" do you not understand? I'm aware of quite a few cases where this is sadly true and has happened right here in Dublin. It's a lot more common than you might think. "Mentally ill" is a meaningless term medically, it doesn't refer to any condition or specific set of conditions, so you cannot say if someone is "mentally ill" or "not mentally ill" in medical terms. Maybe everyone is "mentally ill" by your definition.

yoke wrote: »

Of course I've used the broad term ''mentally ill'' because it's not for me to attempt a diagnosis especially not from a clip and nothing else! The point is it warrants investigation to determine exactly that!

yoke wrote: »

People who have psychiatric problems and are dangerous to the public and aggressive and also have psychiatric issues are inherently violent, why else would they be deemed dangerous to the public?
Once again I believe you are talking about something that you have not much knowledge of, as you are completely wrong and stabbings/assaults by people with psychiatric troubles are relatively common, considering the small percentage of the population that fits into this category to begin with. To give you a clue - a lot of heroin addicts in Dublin are also psychiatric patients - 2 sides to every story. If I say "stabbed by a heroin addict" a lot of people will react differently to "stabbed by a patient receiving psychiatric care" although I could be talking about the same person.

yoke wrote: »

Erm..because they're heroin addicts, and unless you can show that they share a mental illness in common and it was a factor, it looks like more likely the heroin, the withdrawel, or need for cash to feed their addiction that led to that.

Already did [referring to what affliction you saw telltale signs of in the video, and when]

Did you? I haven't seen any response from you stating "at 02:49 in the video we see signs of Dementia" or whatever.

Because it's not appropriate nor possible to definitively say such a thing.

yoke wrote: »

No, I'm trying to highlight how you keep changing/adding to what you said to try and fit into what you think you can defend

Er, you're chopping a sentence to fit your purpose. If something was added by me it was for clarification..of what should go without saying and was probably said by me elsewhere in a comment.

yoke wrote: »

Here's a quick unabridged example of something you have said that might jog your memory. Notice how you dwell on the faults of everyone else which we're in reaction to the woman's behaviour, which you might have understood quite easily if you did not simply suggest everyone condone the woman's behaviour because she may be in need of psychiatric care:

I am entitled to see it from other angles as well as acknowledging her vile behaviour, which I have repeatedly done.
Again, I did not say anything of the like of which you actually put quotation marks around, to make it seem like my words. Leave it off now, please.

Junkyard Tom · 03-04-2017 1:34am

Widdershins wrote: »

I shared links that explained that symptoms can very greatly from person to person, and they weren't particularly pseudo scientific unless you class psychology as pseudoscience.

Wait a second, are you diagnosing this woman on the internet? Do you think it's probable that she's just a horrible person?

Widdershins · 03-04-2017 1:41am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Wait a second, are you diagnosing this woman on the internet? Do you think it's probable that she's just a horrible person?

Since when does saying I think she possibly has *A* mental illness count as making a diagnosis? jeeeees.

She did a horrible thing but she came across as pretty unhinged while she was doing it so I personally think she's probably unwell and out of control.

__Alex__ · 03-04-2017 1:48am

Arghus wrote: »

Having watched it all I can say is that I find the video depressing and wonder why it's made it's way to the internet. Who needs this, honestly? She's obviously a bit gone in the head, we all meet people like this from time to time. I've never thought, man I can't wait to put this up on youtube.

Which is to say: she displays horrible behavior in the video, but, in a way, putting it and her all over the internet to be watched and remembered at large is pretty ugly too, if you ask me.

+1, especially as they already won. She looked like an eejit and had everyone present laughing at her. She flounced off looking thoroughly silly. She did not come out of the situation on top. So what was to be gained from uploading it?

Sexual Harassment Caught on Video

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