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Sexual Harassment Caught on Video
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Widdershins wrote: »Er, most people with mental illnesses are 'allowed' out on their own unless they've been sectioned (committed to a psychiatric unit). That includes people with very serious mental illnesses. Nobody monitors their medication use or lack of it, either, unless they're in hospital.
Are you saying that "most people with mental illness" who are allowed out on their own will behave like this woman?
If not, then why mention that at all?
If dangerous/aggressive types like this are also known to be suffering from a mental illness and are allowed out on their own then it's a failure of the system, where the resources are spread so thinly that they can't be kept under supervision.
The public can't be expected to be extra nice to every asshole in the off chance that the person is not normally like that, but is mentally sick.
I totally reject your diagnosis that this person is mentally sick, too many people label people as mentally sick without knowing the difference between someone who is an asshole and someone who is mentally sick.0 -
It's all just a little too self-aware and manipulative to come across as mental illness.
Something like borderline personality disorder has manipulative behaviour at its core. That's just an example, not a diagnosis. But absolutely, manipulative behaviour can be part of mental illness.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »A poster just shared a comment from the man from the couple who were ranted at. He's a fan of this reddit page about Public Freakouts, I think that's where he uploaded the video to?
Definiely looks like he was half pleased with the whole thing in a warped way, or pleased with the chance to share his own experience with a weirdo.
At least youtube had the decency to take it down for violating their bullying and harassment policy. Her treatment and recovery is going to be hard enough as it is.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »I think that's a contradiction in terms. If I have a problem with my mental health/wellbeing how can I be entirely mentally healthy at the same time. Not totally off the rails ill but not entirely at peak mental health. R.e the pimple and the dermatologist, that would be a transient skin complaint and not a disease, and I suppose a comparison might be one or two pimples compared to a skin disease like Acne. Which I would go to a dermatologist for.
Mentally, the difference between feeling stressed now and then, and having an anxiety disorder.
Therapist is a bit of a catch all term to me, but maybe it specifically means something to a lot of people, like a psychotherapist? Afaik they provide counselling services and general guidance, but I still don't see why someone would avail of it if they're not troubled in some way at the time. I'm not saying it's a major issue, but the term ''mentally ill'' probably sounds much 'heavier' than I meant it to.
The level of her self awareness is questionable, imo!
Mental illness is medically diagnosed, and a patient might be referred for therapy. Therapists, counsellors or psychotherapists do not usually have medical degrees. I'm sure some do, but the vast majority do not.0 -
I never said it was, what I don't think is right, or a decent social solution, is the double standard of goading, baiting, videoing and ganging up on a woman with severe issues who needs help, and then posting it on youtube to make money, while talking of 'revenge'.
I don't see goading, baiting, and ganging up on a woman to be honest.
She started the exchange, it's only fair that the boy and girl should have a right to respond. They might not be responding in a very wise way, but I don't see any goading or provoking for the sake of the video.
That the young man wants his 5 minutes of glory on Reddit is just another trait of human nature. Thing is, she enabled him to get this quick virtual feel-good kick.
He's not filming someone who's doing nothing wrong, going about their business.
This is the world we live in now, we all know that if we act the maggot, we're likely to end up on Youtube or other social media platforms.
Kinda like in the old times, when the old ones' gossip meant that if you acted the maggot in town or in a shop, the whole parish would know about it.0 -
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Besides, we have no idea if she's in therapy or ill or whatever.
People have said this repeatedly throughout the thread. Nobody is definitively saying she has mental issues.I like to think I wouldn't have goaded her even inadvertently, but you have to admit she really provoked them. If I was that provoked and my partner insulted and accusations of sexual impropriety were made just to make me feel bad, I probably wouldn't respond in the perfect way either.
I'd cut them some slack, she was pretty poisonous. They weren't perfect for sure, but I don't really blame them either.
TBH, Candie, they seemed to be quite gleeful about the whole thing, which is kind of an odd reaction.0 -
Are you saying that "most people with mental illness" who are allowed out on their own will behave like this woman?
If not, then why mention that at all?
There's a broad spectrum of mental illnesses, and people can behave in all sorts of ways, unpredictably. People are nasty all the time and we have no way of knowing how many of them are ill and untreated or on the wrong treatment.
The fact that people generally either assume they're just being nasty for the sake of it alone, or just want to get away from them, means it takes longer for them to get help. In some cases people only get treatment after a failed suicide attempt.
So who's going to stop her or them from going out in a bad mental state?
[/QUOTE]If dangerous/aggressive types like this are also known to be suffering from a mental illness and are allowed out on their own then it's a failure of the system, where the resources are spread so thinly that they can't be kept under supervision.[/QUOTE]
Some people respond very well to treatments. And some people can be the nicest of people until they get sick. Be it a disorder or nervous breakdown or whatever, it can change peoples behaviour. Even some people with alzheimers can come out with shockingly out of character things. Luckily when people finally get medical attention the professionals don't automatically lock them away.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]The public can't be expected to be extra nice to every asshole in the off chance that the person is not normally like that, but is mentally sick.[/QUOTE]
Extra nice wasn't suggested.
[/QUOTE]I totally reject your diagnosis that this person is mentally sick, too many people label people as mentally sick without knowing the difference between someone who is an asshole and someone who is actually mentally sick and wants help - this is not a person who wants help.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you know the difference yourself. I didn't diagnose the woman, just said she could be ill. Apparently a diagnosis of 'Asshole' can be made on the spot.0 -
I never said it was, what I don't think is right, or a decent social solution, is the double standard of goading, baiting, videoing and ganging up on a woman with severe issues who needs help, and then posting it on youtube to make money, while talking of 'revenge'.
What I don't think is right is the double standard of asking the couple to behave in a calm and dignified manner showing the utmost restraint and taking abuse with gentle good humour, while this stupid cow is throwing her bile at them.0 -
TBH, Candie, they seemed to be quite gleeful about the whole thing, which is kind of an odd reaction.
Incredulous is how I thought they sounded, which is pretty fair. You could be right though, but she's the one who instigated the encounter and I'm not surprised they were riled, when you consider the crap she came out with.
It's entirely possible she'd had a few drinks, was disinhibited, and is just a mean drunk. In fact, I think that's more likely to result in someone throwing caution to the wind like she did. Some people are not their best selves after a drink.
Not that the couple behaved perfectly, they didn't, but at the same time they're only human and they were provoked a fair bit.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »I'm well aware it happens, I've had it happen to me, it was my boyfriend who pointed out what the other woman's problem was. She was grossly overweight.I was paying her for professional services. She wasn't tearing her hair out or rocking in a corner muttering gibberish so no, she didn't 'look' ill.
If you need therapy you're mentally ill (not necessarily that you need to be diagnosed with something, but at that time your mental health needs treatment to get you feeling well again for whatever reason). There's a huge spectrum of mentally illnesses. Needing therapy for something on that scale-or a phobia, for example- isn't the same as having a long term mental illness but it's still a state of mental illness. It'd be unusual for anyone to go through their entire life and never be mentally unwell at some point, in a minor way. They might not require treatment though. I'm beginning to see this is a lack of understanding of what mentally ill means. I might not need a bandage, but not major surgery for a sprained ankle. In that case I'd still be injured. Or I might not need so much as antibiotics for a head cold but I'm still physically ill.
I almost feel like I should apologise for saying what I said about therapy and mental illness, but thats because of the perception of it I'm getting from the thread...it's not a dirty word or an insult.
With all due respect, I disagree with your interpretation of mental illness. Mental illness is diagnosed by a psychiatrist. It is used to refer to cognitive impairments that prevent a person from functioning normally in society on a consistent basis - can't hold a job, can't form relationships, etc. Many mental illnesses are the result of a chemical imbalance which is why drugs are prescribed.
Therapy is used by many people who don't have a mental illness to develop coping skills for stressful situations. They don't need medication and their issues aren't preventing them from living a normal life; they just need a little help learning how to cope with past or present issues. It's the difference between feeling anxious sometimes and wanting to develop some skills to cope with that and being medical diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder.0 -
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Mental illness is medically diagnosed, and a patient might be referred for therapy. Therapists, counsellors or psychotherapists do not usually have medical degrees. I'm sure some do, but the vast majority do not.
I know psychotherapists don't seem to, but what I asked was why attend one purely to tune something up if there's nothing at all wrong. It doesn't make sense to me. I understand people might not be majorly affected by something and might not wish to seek a diagnosis. I didn't say a therapist would be making the diagnosis of a long term illness.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »I know psychotherapists don't seem to, but what I asked was why attend one purely to tune something up if there's nothing at all wrong. It doesn't make sense to me. I understand people might not be majorly affected by something and might not wish to seek a diagnosis. I didn't say a therapist would be making the diagnosis of a long term illness.
You can have a problem without being mentally ill in the same way that you can have a pimple without it being acne.0 -
metaoblivia wrote: »With all due respect, I disagree with your interpretation of mental illness. Mental illness is diagnosed by a psychiatrist. It is used to refer to cognitive impairments that prevent a person from functioning normally in society on a consistent basis - can't hold a job, can't form relationships, etc. Many mental illnesses are the result of a chemical imbalance which is why drugs are prescribed.
Therapy is used by many people who don't have a mental illness to develop coping skills for stressful situations. They don't need medication and their issues aren't preventing them from living a normal life; they just need a little help learning how to cope with past or present issues. It's the difference between feeling anxious sometimes and wanting to develop some skills to cope with that and being medical diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder.
Yes, that's fair enough. Not all illnesses need medication and being mentally unwell doesn't have to mean having an official, long term illness,though. If help is needed to cope or to deal with past issues, sounds more of a mental strengthening exercise than treatment for illness..but if that was me I still would not class myself as 100 mentally healthy, if seeking help to reach that point, or close to it. The woman in question might not have X disorder but might need help for similar reasons. Or not!0 -
You can have a problem without being mentally ill in the same way that you can have a pimple without it being acne.
Of course, like stress! But if it gets to the stage of needing a bit of help to cope then to me, that's an illness (or run-down-ness!) , albeit a mild and very common one. Mental vitamin deficiency!
Which is why I said most people would be lucky not to experience that much at some point and not everyone's exhibiting severe symptoms, not everyone will get worse without treatment, as it is a bit like a spectrum.0 -
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Widdershins wrote: »So who's going to stop her or them from going out in a bad mental state?
So you agree that's a failure of the system then? To use an analogy, you won't fix a problem in the tyre of a car by changing the steering wheel.Extra nice wasn't suggested.
Repressing the urge for an easy, fully legal, revenge on a total prick who publicly insulted you and your girlfriend and tried to bully you into changing your behaviour is being "extra nice" in my opinion.I don't think you know the difference yourself
Interesting that you should jump to this conclusion about my abilities. You've told me a lot about yourself with that comment - you're attacking me because I disagree with you, and you are convinced that I must be wrong because I disagree with you, rather than thinking about the content of my argument.
Your view is set in stone despite not knowing all the facts, very similar to your judgement of my abilities to diagnose a person with mental illness.I didn't diagnose the woman, just said she could be ill. Apparently a diagnosis of 'Asshole' can be made on the spot.
We are not here to diagnose the woman. That was my point. Her behaviour should not be condoned. Suggesting that she has mental problems so we should not react to her behaviour, is by definition condoning her behaviour. Condone does not mean "to approve of", it means "to disregard or ignore" - unlike what you seem to think.0 -
There's nothing to 'love' about that video, no matter who is right or wrong it is not humanity at its finest on display.
However I do really like the collective groan all the other customers let out at the end when the aggressor tries to play the patriotic "I'm an American" card in the midst of her doing a racism. I dunno, after 6 minutes of losing hope, it gave me some back.0 -
But fuelling her is grand? Diffusing a situation can be as simply as doing nothing and letting someone wear themselves out. That comes instinctively to a lot of people. This isn't what happened here.
I don't think they were fueling her bile.
She started off on her crazy rant, and they were incredulous, like Candie said. That's the way I perceived it myself.
And when I'm incredulous myself, in a situation like that, I tend to voice it in a similar manner.
The man made a good point when she said she didn't want to be looking at them when they were at it, he pretty gently said "well here's the door, you can leave". I don't see that as fueling for example. That was making a good point, the woman was not held there against her will.
I think when the guy said : "you carry a lot of emotional stuff on your shoulders" or something to that effect, he must have thought this might soften her, like "I see you're in pain" or something like that. It was very clumsy and did not have the intended effect, but I don't think he meant it to fuel her rage.
Imo these people weren't goading, they were just reacting to her bullying, the way a lot of us would. What you're saying comes instinctively to some people is great, but that is not the case for most of us.
I work in an environment where I absolutely have to be aware of that, and where I have to train myself to diffuse situations similar to that, but even I, with my professional experience and demands, have trouble doing it.
You can't blame a random sample of people in a restaurant for not instinctively reacting in a manner that would deffuse a bully in full flight.0 -
So you agree that's a failure of the system then? To use an analogy, you won't fix a problem in the tyre of a car by changing the steering wheel.
No, I don't remember anyone talking about the system. I pointed out that not everyone gets diagnosed until it's too late or they've done a number of dramatic things. Someone has to step in and intervene in order for the person to get to the point of being assessed, that means friends or family or the police if they get involved, or else how can the 'system' begin to help.
[/QUOTE]Repressing the urge for an easy, fully legal, revenge on a total prick who publicly insulted you and your girlfriend and tried to bully you into changing your behaviour is being "extra nice" in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I barely commented on the uploading of the video if that's what you mean. I'd call it common sense to deal with it differently, not extra niceness. And it applies to the staff as well as the couple. After a period of engaging when she's getting worse instead of calming down it becomes clear she's not logical and that's enough reason to stop engaging.
As for views set in stone, you've angrily decided she's purely a prick, so it's not me who has those set views. If that was me I'd be more bemused than angry.
[/QUOTE]Interesting that you should jump to this conclusion about my abilities. You've told me a lot about yourself with that comment - you're attacking me because I disagree with you, and you are convinced that I must be wrong because I disagree with you, rather than thinking about the content of my argument.[/QUOTE]
You're VERY sensitive. I could easily say the same about your comments to me.
[/QUOTE]Your view is set in stone despite not knowing all the facts, very similar to your judgement of my abilities to diagnose a person with mental illness.[/QUOTE]
Well if you imply someone's clueless you can expect your own lack of understanding to be pointed out. You previously said the couple couldn't have been expected to consider the woman's mentally ill, since she was out on her own in public.
[/QUOTE]We are not here to diagnose the woman. That was my point. Her behaviour should not be condoned. Suggesting that she has mental problems so we should not react to her behaviour, is by definition condoning her behaviour. Condone does not mean "to approve of", it means "to disregard or ignore" - unlike what you seem to think.[/QUOTE]
I am fully aware of the meaning of ''condone''. I neither approved of nor suggested anyone ignore her behaviour and do nothing about it. I suggested they ignore her when it became clear engaging was getting nowhere AND call the police or have her removed by staff-who also behaved ineffectually. Try to read the full sentence.0 -
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Eight or nine years ago a woman moved into a house I was renting.At first she seemed normal and had a good job. About two weeks after moving in she started acting like a complete bitch, not so much to me but was verbally abusive towards another girl in the house. This one night I was so pissed off with her I made up my mind that from tomorrow on she ain't getting away with anymore of her ****.
The following day at 6.30am she starts kicking my door as hard as she could, I rush to the door and she's there in an awful state she says, "I need to be takin to St Ita's". straight after she says that one line she starts giving me terrible abuse saying "you're the sneakiest ****er I've ever met..." "you're a rapist..." She wakes up the other girl staying at the house screaming "bitch whore".
What completely changed the dynamic of the whole situation was her saying she needed to get to hospital, if she hadn't managed to squeeze out that one, two second line(cry for help) we would've handled the situation completely different . I ended up taking the morning off work and helping getting her to care.
Then a few years ago outside a cinema with friends another situation developed I saw it for what it was(because of the previous situation) and attempted to calm the girl down, eventually she said sorry for her outburst started crying and said she has stopped taking her meds recently. I can fully understand when people take things personally because I did myself, but I also believe that just the smallest amount of dealing with someone with serious mental health issues would give people the awareness to handle these situations with more compassion.0 -
...It would have been pretty easy to calm her down at the very start.
Really, I mean.. really.
Did you actually watch the complete video?
Shes the one that starts off with a full on tirade of verbal diarrhea, the couple remained calm while she gets in their face, but she kept it up and kept it up.
She is a clown (polite word used) who made an absolute show of herself.
I don't buy the mental illness as an excuse either, she is just one of those people who Wants to find utter offence in anything they slightly dislike and prefer to let loose on others because of their own insecurities.0 -
yoke wrote:I think it is fair for the couple to assume that she has not been diagnosed with any disorder requiring treatment since she was out in public on her own
So you honestly think people with mental illness aren't allowed out on their own?0 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoke
I think it is fair for the couple to assume that she has not been diagnosed with any disorder requiring treatment since she was out in public on her ownSo you honestly think people with mental illness aren't allowed out on their own?
Is that what you meant by a failure of the system, Yoke?0 -
So you honestly think people with mental illness aren't allowed out on their own?
Define what you mean by "mental illness".
I clearly referred to dangerous/aggressive types of people. That's when a psychiatrist is supposed to commit a patient, to stop them from being a danger to themselves or other people.
There are plenty of people who, after being convicted of a crime, try to pretend that they're insane so they can plead insanity. A lot of them think that just acting "very angry and saying/threatening stupid things" is "insane" - it's not.
I don't see any reason to think this woman is insane, she just seems like a very stupid person0 -
I think a lot of the problem is that now, more than ever, people seem to think they can say whatever the damn well please.
"Its my right to express myself and my feelings, if I have a problem I'm just the type of person who says it straight"
The above translates usually into a big mouth arrogant sh1t who thinks that under the guise of being an "out straight" person excuses them for being an as5hole. I doesn't.....it really doesn't.
It really is becoming my number one hatred. Mouthpieces.
What she said to that girl in the couple is nothing other than a bitchy bitch running her disgruntled mouth off, because her whole damn life she has bullied her way in situations and if that didnt work, she played the victim card. I have never met her but I can guarantee that this is absolutely the case. Why?
Because, even though I never met her...I have met many of her. Met one even TODAY. :mad:
People, usually woman to woman, with to much mouth for their own good.
Too much mouth and no bloody manners or breading.0 -
Widdershins wrote: »Quote:
Originally Posted by yoke
I think it is fair for the couple to assume that she has not been diagnosed with any disorder requiring treatment since she was out in public on her own
Is that what you meant by a failure of the system, Yoke?
Fine. Replace
"any disorder requiring treatment"
with
"any disorder requiring treatment that in the absence of which would result in her being dangerous to the public in contrast to her ordinary nature"0 -
Define what you mean by "mental illness".
I clearly referred to dangerous/aggressive types of people. That's when a psychiatrist is supposed to commit a patient, to stop them from being a danger to themselves or other people.
There are plenty of people who, after being convicted of a crime, try to pretend that they're insane so they can plead insanity. A lot of them think that just acting "very angry and saying/threatening stupid things" is "insane" - it's not.
I don't see any reason to think this woman is insane, she just seems like a very stupid person
Treatment can stop them being aggressive. You could have a psychotic episode from all kinds of mental issues including post natal depression. An outburst like hers could be part of a psychotic episode. Locking someone away is a last resort. And they have to come to medical attention in the first place.
Psychosis, from Wikipedia:
Symptoms of psychotic breaks vary greatly, usually depending on the circumstances of diagnosis or any contributary substance ingested. Symptoms can range from harmless, sometimes unnoticed delusions, to violent outbursts and major depression. The sufferer may also be unable to distinguish reality from fantasy (for example, believing that a dream really happened or experiencing hallucinations that appear to be real.) Where a bipolar disorder is involved, crying, grandiosity, insomnia, irritability, and persecutory delusions may all or severally manifest themselves as symptoms.[11]
Possible causes, both mental and physical:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Psychosis/Pages/Causes.aspx0 -
Fine. Replace
"any disorder requiring treatment"
with
"any disorder requiring treatment that in the absence of which would result in her being dangerous to the public in contrast to her ordinary nature"
Fair enough, but there's always the first time-or the twentieth time or however many times until someone twigs that someone's not right in the head! It'd be naive to assume every person with a major mental illness is whisked off for treatment before they've begun to show the signs and got themselves into trouble/caused problems for people. And there's an adjustment period with medications, and sometimes patients have to try more than one kind, or different dosages, until they work. In the meantime, they're not automatically locked away,it would be unfair. Because generally mentally ill people are only a danger to themselves, if at all-although some can behave in upsetting ways. But we don't lock assholes away for being an asshole by nature, so why would we lock them away for behaving in a similar way!0 -
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Let's leave the diagnosis to the psychiatric professionals. Talk of psychotic breaks and sectioning is a bit ridiculous on the basis of a video of someone being obnoxious.0
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