Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

The blue blaa

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Billy Power is quite a prospect, anyone know if Tomas Douglas is still minor this year?
This minor group in general comes with very little pedigree. Cork and Clare contested the Tony Forristal four years ago and Tipp will be very strong if you look at their strength on the Harty Cup. We'll be up against it but good luck to them

Thomas Douglas is underage again this year but he is injured past few weeks.

Harry Ruddle who was centre back last year is deemed not good enough to start this year.

Tom Barron from the valley the younger brother of Jamie i personally would have thought would have been centre back is playing wing forward.


The management team are as follows.
James Lacey Cappoquin
Pat Bennett Ballysaggert
John Quinn Mount Sion
John O'Shea Dungarvan

cascade12

Is Jamie O Meara of Mount Sion still involved with them?

The blue blaa

cascade12 wrote: »

Is Jamie O Meara of Mount Sion still involved with them?

Jesus your right he is, i forgot the city boys had two mentors there.

PaddyJoeOil

which bollix deleted me comment

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

Munster under 17 football championship qf
Cork 6-24- Waterford 0-01

Feel sorry for the players and management having to go through a massacre like that, I wonder how many training sessions they had ???

Embarrassing

The county board are the ones that should be embarrassed, not the players who are the ones constantly hung out to dry

Waternut

I would't say it the strongest minor group, but Douglas and Ruddles omissions are glaring. I'm also surprised, Finn from DLS, Whelan from Brickeys or Cooke didn't make it.

crottys lake

Waternut wrote: »

I would't say it the strongest minor group, but Douglas and Ruddles omissions are glaring. I'm also surprised, Finn from DLS, Whelan from Brickeys or Cooke didn't make it.

And a couple more as well but maybe we are stronger than we think.

The very best of luck to the players and management and let's get behind them and hope for a shock result.

Waternut

There is definately 2 or 3 lads who have the potential to be serious hurlers over the coming years.

blueflame

Best of luck to minors tonight - I know that a huge effort has been put in by all involved and they realize they are up against it going to Ennis for first game, but am sure they will give it everything. Very hard to know with minors how they will react on the night, and Tommy Douglas has been a big loss with injury but really hope the panel and management get the return they deserve for the effort they have put in.

PTH2009

http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/elarkin/eoin-larkin-waterford-slip/

mountgomery burns

PTH2009 wrote: »

http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/elarkin/eoin-larkin-waterford-slip/

So everyone needs to push on and stopping losing matches. Great insight.

enoughtaken

Half Time Clare 0-9 Waterford 0-7 Clare midfielder Keith White with four points from play the home side have hit nine wides

Taken from Tomas mac on twitter

PTH2009

Clare 0-18- Wat 0-7 20mins 2nd half

PTH2009

bad to worse
Cla 1-21- Wat 0-8 -26 mins 2nd half

We will play Cork in the first playoff next weekend, a loss in that will give us one final chance against the loser of tonights QF between Tipp and Limerick to get to a munster semi final

Playoff 1- vs Cork- Pairc Ui Rinn (25th April/May 3rd)
Playoff 2- vs Limerick or Tipp- (May 3rd/May 10th)

PTH2009

Full Time Clare 1-24 Waterford 0-9 Clare also had 17 wides Waterford went 34 mins without a score

Tomas McCarthy twitter

Deisegodeo

Minors took a trimming in the second half, finished 1-24 to 0-9. I know expectations werent high for this group but that level of defeat is concerning. Only 2 points scored in the second half. Disappointing to see

carter10

Really poor performance. Serious questions have to be asked when a team goes 34 mins without a score

PaddyJoeOil

Politics in both the u17 football lastnight and hurlers tonight

robopaddy2

Holy crap that is a disaster. Scoreline speaks for itself we are obviously way off the pace at this level. Worrying times ahead.

enoughtaken

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Holy crap that is a disaster. Scoreline speaks for itself we are obviously way off the pace at this level. Worrying times ahead.

Wouldn't panic. Minor can be unpredictable at times. Hopefully we'll bounce back next week. As a few have alluded to here maybe a few guys were overlooked or not considered. I don't know. not up to date on the underage in the DEISE at present.

robopaddy2

enoughtaken wrote: »

Wouldn't panic. Minor can be unpredictable at times. Hopefully we'll bounce back next week. As a few have alluded to here maybe a few guys were overlooked or not considered. I don't know. not up to date on the underage in the DEISE at present.

I have been monitoring the development squads over the past few years and I can tell you this has been coming. Our u17s last year were beaten by the likes of Offaly and Laois. Since the 'golden group' (current/last year u21s) have passed through we have taken our eye off the ball at juvenile level. It coincides with the county board being broke around the time just after Davy Fitz left as senior manage and these are the age-group that missed out on the proper funding and coaching that the boys a couple years ahead of them were given. Yes there were a few lads missing tonight but nothing to justify this type of beating. Last years minors although we did beat eventual AI champions Tipp our first touch and amount of unforced errors was as poor as I'd seen. It showed that the ability was there but the work wasn't done with them. I wasn't at the game tonight maybe someone who was can shed some light, Ive a feeling it is much of the same.

Waternut

That was some trimming we took and considering we had 4 or 5 lads who started on last years team it really shouldn't be happening. I hope it's not back to the bad old days where our underage teams took regular beltings.

Hslaw

Is it true that John o shea is the current manager of the minor team

The blue blaa

Hslaw wrote: »

Is it true that John o shea is the current manager of the minor team

Selector.

Cake Man

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I have been monitoring the development squads over the past few years and I can tell you this has been coming. Our u17s last year were beaten by the likes of Offaly and Laois. Since the 'golden group' (current/last year u21s) have passed through we have taken our eye off the ball at juvenile level. It coincides with the county board being broke around the time just after Davy Fitz left as senior manage and these are the age-group that missed out on the proper funding and coaching that the boys a couple years ahead of them were given. Yes there were a few lads missing tonight but nothing to justify this type of beating. Last years minors although we did beat eventual AI champions Tipp our first touch and amount of unforced errors was as poor as I'd seen. It showed that the ability was there but the work wasn't done with them. I wasn't at the game tonight maybe someone who was can shed some light, Ive a feeling it is much of the same.

Yeah have to agree with this, I keep an eye on our underage sides each year from Tony Forristal/Sonny Walsh up to U21 and the last 2-3 years at the grades from U14-U17 we haven't been too spectacular. Likewise, our Harty cup teams are only doing ok but not good enough to go all the way.
Not going to be overly concerned as the priority of these grades are to identify and develop a few lads capable of making the step up to senior but I suppose it can't be great for their development if they're getting batterings from other counties.

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

Yeah have to agree with this, I keep an eye on our underage sides each year from Tony Forristal/Sonny Walsh up to U21 and the last 2-3 years at the grades from U14-U17 we haven't been too spectacular. Likewise, our Harty cup teams are only doing ok but not good enough to go all the way.
Not going to be overly concerned as the priority of these grades are to identify and develop a few lads capable of making the step up to senior but I suppose it can't be great for their development if they're getting batterings from other counties.

We are easily the poorest side in Munster this year. Next week against Cork will be about playing for pride and damaged limitations I feel. It is actually the last year of the minor grade so will be a lot more difficult to gauge our underage progress going forward. u17 level means there will be a lot of 15/16 year olds playing. The hard work needs to be done at 10/u12 level like it was when the likes of Patrick Curran and Austin Gleeson were that age. It is too late at minor level to try and make hurlers out of lads.

Also - we have to get a Dungarvan team back in the Harty Cup. Its pretty much a third of the counties hurlers missing out on this exposure. We are way behind the other counties in terms of players getting exposure to a high quality of hurling and are much more prepared for the intensity of intercounty hurling.

sanfran88

enoughtaken wrote: »

Wouldn't panic. Minor can be unpredictable at times. Hopefully we'll bounce back next week. As a few have alluded to here maybe a few guys were overlooked or not considered. I don't know. not up to date on the underage in the DEISE at present.

Was at the game, we should have lost by a lot more except for all the wides Clare had, especially in the first half. Clare saw our weaknesses and ran through the mids and half backs for the 2nd half. Oddly our management team didnt see this. When they eventually brought on subs they replaced all forwards when it was glaringly obvious that our problem was in defence. Hopefully they have learned from this beating and our strongest players will be starting against Cork and the lads get a positive result after all the work they have put in over the years.

Giveitfong

There was something surreal about the first 23 minutes of last Sunday's game between Waterford and Galway. In that period, Waterford couldn't miss and Galway couldn't score. After 23 minutes, Waterford had shot eleven points and just one wide (not counting a Maurice Shanahan pass that went over the end line); Galway had shot just two points and seven wides and had missed a penalty. Joe Canning's poor effort from the penalty was just one of numerous errors (misplaced passes, dropped balls, etc.) which beset Galway in this period. There was no intensity in their play - as Eddie Brennan observed on RTE, it was like watching a challenge game. The resultant looseness suited small nippy forwards Tommy Ryan and Steven Roche, who went to town.

The TG4 commentator was wondering whether Galway were having problems coming to grips with a Division 1A team, which was ridiculous given that Waterford had a shadow team out, that Division 1B teams won the last two leagues, and that three of the quarter finals were won by 1B teams. My own view is that, facing a seriously weakened team with six league debutants and only five certain championship starters, and given Derek McGrath's clearly-expressed view that he couldn't be arsed about winning the game, Galway probably thought that all they had to do was turn up and go through the motions. Indeed, for the first 23 minutes they weren't even doing that. Ciaran Murphy wrote in the Irish Times about the psychology of facing weakened teams which he said was a situation GAA teams rarely have to grapple with.

In the event, Galway's 24th minute goal gave them, and the large attendance, the fillip they needed to get them back on track. From there to half time they hit seven points and no wides to get them right back in the game.

It was a bad goal to give away. It was bad enough to leave Conor Cooney totally unmarked, but this is what happens when two regular full backs are missing and you have only two specialist full backs in the team. What was worse, in my view, was Iggy Regan's decision to leave his goal to come out to challenge Cooney. If Regan had stayed put, there is no way Cooney would have scored from where he got the ball. He would have had to come across goal to get a better angle, in which case he would had to face Shane Fives and possibly Conor Gleeson who were both making tracks in his direction. He did well to hit the target from where he was but it was still an unnecessary concession.

At half time I expected Galway to win comfortably. They were beginning to motor and they would have the wind at their back in the second half. This was a team which should have beaten Tipperary in last year's All-Ireland semi-final and they were at full strength. They were experienced, battle-hardened and had a well-developed way of playing. Waterford, by contrast, were inexperienced, lacking in match fitness and unused to playing together as a team.

For the second year in a row, Derek McGrath had thrown a sop to the fringe players who make up the numbers at training by throwing a bunch of them together into a game against Galway which was of little importance (at least from McGrath's point of view). And for the second year in a row, these fringe players showed that they could hurl, confirming my view of the unprecedented level of talent available at senior level in Waterford. However, the lack of an orderly rotation policy meant that they hadn't been given the opportunity to show what they could do, and were sure to run out of steam faced with an intense Galway effort in the second half.

As it happened, the early part of the second half was a reprise of the first half, with Galway hitting three wides in a row while Waterford scored two points before Tom Devine's two-goal burst. Both of these came from the type of incoming ball that Waterford full forwards rarely get under McGrath's regime, nicely weighted and coming in at chest height which gives the forward all the advantages. In both cases the supplier (Mark O'Brien for the first goal and Stephen Bennett for the second) looked up before hitting the ball in. The other marvellous fact was that there was actually somebody in there to hit the ball to.

However, from there on in, Galway just blew Waterford away, led by David Burke, who had a colossal second half in midfield. In the last 25 minutes they scored 1-11 to Waterford's single point. They had two main attacking ploys. One was to simply pass the ball to Joe Canning, who usually was in a good position for an offload from the player in possession, and who could score from anywhere. The other was to play the ball into space for Conor Whelan to run on to. Whelan did a lot of damage with nine second half possessions. Waterford, of course, rarely play this kind of ball into the forwards, preferring instead to rain high balls down on top of whoever happens to be up front.

I cannot understand Derek McGrath's ploy of constantly rotating forwards around the place, which means that outfield players never know who is where up front (if anyone). Even with Waterford playing with the strong wind, DJ Foran spent a lot of the first half in his own half of the field. Incidentally, while a poster on here has suggested that Foran was carrying an injury, I could see no evidence of this from looking at the video. Foran's failure to make an appearance for Waterford up to now indicates to me that McGrath doesn't rate him, and his premature substitution on Sunday (despite the fact that he was doing well) tends to bear this out.

McGrath's attitude to this game was probably best reflected in his deploying the very inexperienced Seamus Keating to mark the vastly experienced Joe Canning. That said, Keating's replacement by Noel Connors did not improve matters. During the 18 minutes he was on the pitch, Connors's only possession came from a short puckout; during the same period Joe Canning got five possessions.

The introduction of Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony and Brian O'Halloran was almost totally ineffective. Between them, these three players spent 44 minutes on the pitch and got a total of three possessions (with O'Halloran getting none). Mahony got one possession but his attempted hand pass was intercepted. The same thing happened with one of Brick's two possession, while for the other he was bottled up and dispossessed.

Waterford might have made a better fist of defending their big lead if they had a sensible puckout strategy. Instead, Iggy Regan persisted in hitting long puckouts into the wind which, in most cases, came straight back. Waterford must be unique among the top hurling counties in having no puckout strategy. Regan, of course, also was at fault for Galway's second goal. He should have caught the ball coming into him, and even if he had to bat it, he should have done so towards the wing instead of straight out in front of goal where he was easily muscled off the ball.

In the end, not only did Galway get three more scores than Waterford, they also hit 15 shots wide to just five for Waterford, and of course they also missed a penalty. Overall, they were deserving winners, although Waterford could have made it harder for them had Maurice Shanahan and Stephen Bennett taken two tap-over points rather than looking in vain for goals, and had Tom Devine played in the unmarked Stephen Roche for an almost certain goal in the 56th minute rather than taking his point. On top of that, I thought Tommy Ryan (who had an excellent game) should have got a penalty in the 40th minute when he made a great run into the large square. He was hooked for his shot but could well have scored with a follow-up shot was he not taken out of it by an illegal charge by the Galway goalie.

Waterford possession count: Regan I (3); Fives S (4); Bennett K (4); McNulty S (7); Keating S (7); de Burca T (14); Gleeson C (10); O'Brien M (12); Moran K (15); Bennett Stephen (8); Roche S (10); Foran DJ (8); Shanahan M (9); Devine T (7); Ryan T (10); Bennett Shane (4); Connors N (1); Walsh M (2); O'Halloran B (0); Mahony P (1).

Stacksofwacks

Can someone explain the U17 thing to me? Is there lads playing on both teams and is it the same management? If so its a bit of a disaster to expect lads to be committed to both teams.. The minor result was a disapointment but minor can be unpredictable and they seemed to be doing ok til half time.. lets see how they do next day to reserve real judgement..

robopaddy2

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Can someone explain the U17 thing to me? Is there lads playing on both teams and is it the same management? If so its a bit of a disaster to expect lads to be committed to both teams.. The minor result was a disapointment but minor can be unpredictable and they seemed to be doing ok til half time.. lets see how they do next day to reserve real judgement..

Minor grade is being scrapped from next year, it will be u17 only. The purpose of the u17 grade this year is to give lads who would have played co minor next year the chance represent their county.
As far as I'm aware it consists of anyone under 17 who has not been selected on the county minor panel. Its not a case that players eligible for both would be involved in both. So its a bit of a second rate competition really.