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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread - **MOD NOTE POST #1**

  • 28-03-2017 1:19pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Hammer Archer
    ☈


    Continued from here.

    Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

    This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

    - Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

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    This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
    The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

    If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this report.gif underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

    So be civil to each other and happy posting.

    ***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
    Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭ blueflame
    Registered User


    Very sorry and disappointed to hear about Coughlan, I for one, despite being a regular critic of our tactics, feel that Coughlan does a very effective job, and if indeed had been allowed to make more mistakes, would be a better full back at this stage. He has pace and he has height, two things can often be the Achilles heel of full backs. has a decent hand and is a no nonsense marker. - yes he plays the man a lot and yes he fouls a lot, but he has become more clever about it in recent time and despite he being constantly blamed in some quarters for conceding goals, in my view he leaks very little.

    I think his loss to the team is huge because it means trying someone else there that it totally untried and possibly means moving someone else effectively "robbing Peter to pay Paul". I agree with some of the posters that Shane fives is far too attack minded as a full back - he did play full back at U21 and for the Seniors but his style has changed completely in the last couple of years. If, and this is a big if, Darragh Fives were fit I would love to see DeBruca move to full back, and Fives take up center back both in conventional roles. I would like to have seen Shane Roche given a proper shot at full back, because I think he has the physical build and attitude for full back - saw him play on Conal Keaney in a challenge against Dublin for a half of game one night in Nolan Park and he did not give Keaney a sniff off the ball - but surprisingly never saw him get a chance there after and now he is gone off the panel. I think that this is one of the major failings of management over the last couple of years, not that i felt that Coughlan needed to be replaced but that we never seriously looked to have a standby full back. The second most often player played there was Shane McNulty and i again state while I have great time for Shane as a hurler he is a wing or half back, I feel he is not suited to full back but would be happy to have him prove me wrong. Conor Gleeson I fear does not have the physique for full back either, a big man like Callinan, Joe Canning or TJ Reid would prove way too much for him to handle.

    Best wishes to Barry and hope for a speedy recovery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,631 ✭✭✭✭ PTH2009
    Registered User


    https://www.joe.ie/news/waterford-council-votes-ban-opposing-gaa-jerseys-citys-streets-583209

    This is not a joke ****ing idiotic

    Edit it's an April Fools joke 'bill to be signed Saturday April 1st lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭ cascade12
    Registered User


    I could be wrong but did Shane Roche not come on for Barry Coughlan right at the end on Sunday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ 3ships
    Registered User


    cascade12 wrote: »
    I could be wrong but did Shane Roche not come on for Barry Coughlan right at the end on Sunday.

    Stephen


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ enoughtaken
    Registered User


    cascade12 wrote: »
    I could be wrong but did Shane Roche not come on for Barry Coughlan right at the end on Sunday.
    Yep, here it is in black and white
    [font=Georgia, serif]Subs: T Devine for Curran (42), M Kearney for A Gleeson (56),  T Ryan for O’Halloran (58), G O’Brien for Shane Bennett (68), S Roche for Coughlan (75).[/font]


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  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ Deise189
    Registered User


    Yep, here it is in black and white
    [font=Georgia, serif]Subs: T Devine for Curran (42), M Kearney for A Gleeson (56),  T Ryan for O’Halloran (58), G O’Brien for Shane Bennett (68), S Roche for Coughlan (75).[/font]

    Stephen midget Roche not shane Roche. Shane roche dropped himself off the panel due to a lack of game time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ ovalu
    Registered User


    Deise189 wrote: »
    Stephen midget Roche not shane Roche. Shane roche dropped himself off the panel due to a lack of game time.

    That's a pity if true as he's a better player than McNulty or Daniels, but I suppose it's hard to blame him if he got no opportunity after a couple of years and Mcgrath then
    parachuted his two De La Salle clubmen in ahead of him, one of whom may now start come championship


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    Hope Barry Couglan recovers quickly. However he is not an inter county standard full back. He was given the run around by a half fit Seamus Callanan, by Fennelly, Ryan and Shanagher. He persistently fouls. What is worse is, that referees are now wise to that. They are the facts whether Derek McGrath likes it or not. Managers in other counties have spotted the weaknesses in the Waterford set up. McGrath has a closed mind in relation to several players within the county. Common knowlege!! Incidentally I have no connection with any of them. Amazing how those who rush to defend McGrath are very quick to slate Tadhg De Burca who has to act as a de facto second full back to cover a weakness in the full backline. Of course Tadhg is not from De la Salle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,631 ✭✭✭✭ PTH2009
    Registered User


    Galway will prob put Joe Canning in on the new full back


  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭ hurler on de ditch
    Registered User


    culbaire wrote: »
    Hope Barry Couglan recovers quickly. However he is not an inter county standard full back. He was given the run around by a half fit Seamus Callanan, by Fennelly, Ryan and Shanagher. He persistently fouls. What is worse is, that referees are now wise to that. They are the facts whether Derek McGrath likes it or not. Managers in other counties have spotted the weaknesses in the Waterford set up. McGrath has a closed mind in relation to several players within the county. Common knowlege!! Incidentally I have no connection with any of them. Amazing how those who rush to defend McGrath are very quick to slate Tadhg De Burca who has to act as a de facto second full back to cover a weakness in the full backline. Of course Tadhg is not from De la Salle.
    Jesus wept


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  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ enoughtaken
    Registered User


    Deise189 wrote: »
    Stephen midget Roche not shane Roche. Shane roche dropped himself off the panel due to a lack of game time.

    Apologies for my mistake. Not so black and white after all !!! Up the DEISE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ enoughtaken
    Registered User


    culbaire wrote: »
    Hope Barry Couglan recovers quickly. However he is not an inter county standard full back. He was given the run around by a half fit Seamus Callanan, by Fennelly, Ryan and Shanagher. He persistently fouls. What is worse is, that referees are now wise to that. They are the facts whether Derek McGrath likes it or not. Managers in other counties have spotted the weaknesses in the Waterford set up. McGrath has a closed mind in relation to several players within the county. Common knowlege!! Incidentally I have no connection with any of them. Amazing how those who rush to defend McGrath are very quick to slate Tadhg De Burca who has to act as a de facto second full back to cover a weakness in the full backline. Of course Tadhg is not from De la Salle.

    You have been asked numerous times to name the 4 players you claim should be on the team. Can you please tell us. In my opinion your attacks on Barry and Derek and any one from De la Salle is unwarranted. We have contested last 2 league finals (winnning 1 and should be 2 ) Munster final ( ok not great ) and should have been in All Ireland last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 969 cul beag
    Registered User


    Is Coughlan definitely out? Heard there was a second opinion sought so we might be saved yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ Deise Gael
    Registered User


    tbf if you are talking about lads at the moment who could add something to the thing more so than lads who are just making up the numbers and who are not up to it - we don't need to name them because they are all honest to God lads who are bursting a gut but we all know who they are and we all know they will never get near to wearing a league not to mind a championship shirt - here are a few just off the top of my head...

    Peter Hogan, Ray Barry, Shane Walsh (BG) Shane Roche, Ryan Donnelly, Gavin Crotty, Paudie Prendergast, Jamie Nagle, Richie Foley - what did they do wrong?

    Foley, Nagle, Barry and Prendergast have all excelled in the championship for Waterford. and are all still flying with their clubs. Shane Roche never got a look in while he was on the panel. Peter Hogan, Shane Walsh, Gavin Crotty and Ryan Donnelly are the mainstays of their club teams and are well tested at inter county level. All of the above are still real championship options.

    It would be nice to have a few of those options now if Darragh Fives and Barry Coughlan don't make it or if we need a bit of pace in our one man forward line.

    Can you really say the same for the eight or nine more lads who are making up the numbers on the panel at the moment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭ cascade12
    Registered User


    Really enjoyed the weekend in Ennis, good town for the craic. Good game as well and the perfect result without us firing on all cylinders. We look like a team that is going through a fairly tough training regime and great credit is due to the management and players for getting in to another quarter final.
    Against the wind in the second half and four or five points down and snatch a win at the death shows the resilience that Mcgrath has distilled in this squad. Loads of players have been given a chance in this campaign ( minus the four that Culbaire is going to inform us about) so there can be no complaints from the knockers. I like the way the management are going about their business and now it is a question of whether we are good enough or not. I think we are.
    Only negative was the injury to Coughlan after a brave challenge near the end of the match. He has done an excellent job for us as a full back and we need him for the Summer.
    Hard to predict the match against Galway. Baron could be back, Devine and Thomas Ryan might start, Maurice probably will, Mahoney and Fives probably will not be ready. Maybe a rest for Aussie and Curran but they will be grand for the Summer. I would try Philip Mahoney as FB if he was fit, he played well there a few years ago in the League and in my opinion would be the man to replace Barry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ enoughtaken
    Registered User


    Deise Gael wrote: »
    tbf if you are talking about lads at the moment who could add something to the thing more so than lads who are just making up the numbers and who are not up to it - we don't need to name them because they are all honest to God lads who are bursting a gut but we all know who they are and we all know they will never get near to wearing a league not to mind a championship shirt - here are a few just off the top of my head...

    Peter Hogan, Ray Barry, Shane Walsh (BG) Shane Roche, Ryan Donnelly, Gavin Crotty, Paudie Prendergast, Jamie Nagle, Richie Foley - what did they do wrong?

    Foley, Nagle, Barry and Prendergast have all excelled in the championship for Waterford. and are all still flying with their clubs. Shane Roche never got a look in while he was on the panel. Peter Hogan, Shane Walsh, Gavin Crotty and Ryan Donnelly are the mainstays of their club teams and are well tested at inter county level. All of the above are still real championship options.

    It would be nice to have a few of those options now if Darragh Fives and Barry Coughlan don't make it or if we need a bit of pace in our one man forward line.

    Can you really say the same for the eight or nine more lads who are making up the numbers on the panel at the moment?


    No not talking about lads who could add something. Culbaire has stated more than once that there is at least 4 lads not on the panel that should be on the starting 15. Just asking him to name them. I would agree with 4 of the guys you mentioned for the panel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 739 robopaddy2


    Some people are seriously delusional. You wouldn't think we won at the weekend, and in THE league quarter final. 3 wins from 5. Pretty decent in a competitive Division 1A. Is that not where we would have wanted to be at the start? Now there's people calling to bring back Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley, lads who have been off the panel with 3 years. Christ above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭✭ Deisedozzer


    Deise Gael wrote: »
    tbf if you are talking about lads at the moment who could add something to the thing more so than lads who are just making up the numbers and who are not up to it - we don't need to name them because they are all honest to God lads who are bursting a gut but we all know who they are and we all know they will never get near to wearing a league not to mind a championship shirt - here are a few just off the top of my head...

    Peter Hogan, Ray Barry, Shane Walsh (BG) Shane Roche, Ryan Donnelly, Gavin Crotty, Paudie Prendergast, Jamie Nagle, Richie Foley - what did they do wrong?

    Foley, Nagle, Barry and Prendergast have all excelled in the championship for Waterford. and are all still flying with their clubs. Shane Roche never got a look in while he was on the panel. Peter Hogan, Shane Walsh, Gavin Crotty and Ryan Donnelly are the mainstays of their club teams and are well tested at inter county level. All of the above are still real championship options.

    It would be nice to have a few of those options now if Darragh Fives and Barry Coughlan don't make it or if we need a bit of pace in our one man forward line.

    Can you really say the same for the eight or nine more lads who are making up the numbers on the panel at the moment?

    With the greatest respect, of the players you've listed here one wasn't a starter on last year's u21 panel and has years ahead of him, two are over 30, two more did OK in a handful of games for the senior side 3 years ago and the remainder have struggled to make an impact even when playing for the intermediate team. I think it's hard to make an argument that any of these players are significantly better than those currently on the panel.

    As for Culbaires 'magnificent four' mystery players who should be starting, can you please name these players so it can at least be discussed/debated, the constant bashing of certain players while refusing to name others is at very least disingenuous and pretty boring at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    With the greatest respect, of the players you've listed here one wasn't a starter on last year's u21 panel and has years ahead of him, two are over 30, two more did OK in a handful of games for the senior side 3 years ago and the remainder have struggled to make an impact even when playing for the intermediate team. I think it's hard to make an argument that any of these players are significantly better than those currently on the panel.

    As for Culbaires 'magnificent four' mystery players who should be starting, can you please name these players so it can at least be discussed/debated, the constant bashing of certain players while refusing to name others is at very least disingenuous and pretty boring at this stage.
    You used the expression 'magnificent four'. NOT I. Would you care to address my remarks re the full back position? Of course not! What we have had under Derek McGrath is ruck and maul bastardised hurling with a defence system similar to rugby union. The forward formation is a shambles. Skill levels of players are deteriorating. We have players running around like super fit greyhounds piling into rucks and killing free flowing hurling. This is a mask to hide the weaknesses in the backline. There are several players who can't tackle correctly.

    Derek McGrath has a closed mind in relation to several players in the county. The whole county knows it. There are players on the currrent panel and team who have been tried and tried and found wanting. Amazing that you are not as dismissive of them as you are of others who have never got a fair chance. You just blithely dismiss them and write them off.

    To achieve success very hard decisions are essential. That means dropping friends where necessary. That's the difference between managers like Brian Cody and Derek McGrath. Brian Cody is never slow to seek advice. Down through the years Brian Cody has adopted a policy of dropping players who dont deliver-All Stars or no All Stars. There is no automatic selection. Deliver or face demotion to the bench! Derek McGrath? Thats the difference between success and failure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    Deise Gael wrote: »
    tbf if you are talking about lads at the moment who could add something to the thing more so than lads who are just making up the numbers and who are not up to it - we don't need to name them because they are all honest to God lads who are bursting a gut but we all know who they are and we all know they will never get near to wearing a league not to mind a championship shirt - here are a few just off the top of my head...

    Peter Hogan, Ray Barry, Shane Walsh (BG) Shane Roche, Ryan Donnelly, Gavin Crotty, Paudie Prendergast, Jamie Nagle, Richie Foley - what did they do wrong?

    Foley, Nagle, Barry and Prendergast have all excelled in the championship for Waterford. and are all still flying with their clubs. Shane Roche never got a look in while he was on the panel. Peter Hogan, Shane Walsh, Gavin Crotty and Ryan Donnelly are the mainstays of their club teams and are well tested at inter county level. All of the above are still real championship options.

    It would be nice to have a few of those options now if Darragh Fives and Barry Coughlan don't make it or if we need a bit of pace in our one man forward line.

    Can you really say the same for the eight or nine more lads who are making up the numbers on the panel at the moment?
    Agree 100%


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  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    robopaddy2 wrote: »
    Some people are seriously delusional. You wouldn't think we won at the weekend, and in THE league quarter final. 3 wins from 5. Pretty decent in a competitive Division 1A. Is that not where we would have wanted to be at the start? Now there's people calling to bring back Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley, lads who have been off the panel with 3 years. Christ above.

    We won a National Hurling League match not an All Ireland or Munster Final.
    One Kilkenny captain threw the National League Cup into the boot of his car after the final and left it there for six months. It was nice to win it but as far as the Kilkenny team was concerned the only thing that mattered was to win the All Ireland. If Waterford won a National League title we would be hearing about it for a year.

    Last Sunday Clare played a far better brand of combined hurlng than Waterford. Sure Waterford got over the line but the style of hurling played is not a good omen for the summer. Just can't see any All Ireland for the county in 2017. The only thing that matters is an All Ireland title. Its a long wait since 1959. It would be nice to see Brick retire with an All Ireland medal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ Deise Gael
    Registered User


    cascade12 wrote: »
    Loads of players have been given a chance in this campaign

    What new players have been given a chance exactly?

    How many new players did we unearth during the League?

    For a Manager who stated publicly that he was not worried about relegation there was absolutely no experimentation whatsoever during the League. Any personnel changes - bar Iggy - were enforced. Hence we are now left with the problem at FB.

    The way I see it we weren't good enough last year so we need to improve. We can do that in two ways - find some new talent and improve our way of playing.

    Tipp, Kilkenny, Dublin, Clare and Cork and have all made changes and tried new things in an effort to improve.

    To me it looks like we have done neither but maybe Derek is holding something back for the championship. I can only hope he is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭ HatchetMan7
    Registered User


    Fullback as we all know is the toughest position to fill and overall i think Barry Coughlan has done a fine job at no. 3 and i think he has improved that little bit every year however the one thing that would improve Barry the most is competition. From the outside looking in it does seem that McGrath has made a mistake here in not giving Shane Roche or someone else a few league games at fullback. Personally i would like to see T. de Burca tried at full back in Coughlans absence as i think Shane Fives plays like a wing back as someone else already mentioned and Conor Gleeson is still a little green and physically isn't strong enough yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭ TheScoringGoal
    Registered User


    culbaire wrote: »
    You used the expression 'magnificent four'. NOT I. Would you care to address my remarks re the full back position? Of course not! What we have had under Derek McGrath is ruck and maul bastardised hurling with a defence system similar to rugby union. The forward formation is a shambles. Skill levels of players are deteriorating. We have players running around like super fit greyhounds piling into rucks and killing free flowing hurling. This is a mask to hide the weaknesses in the backline. There are several players who can't tackle correctly.

    Derek McGrath has a closed mind in relation to several players in the county. The whole county knows it. There are players on the currrent panel and team who have been tried and tried and found wanting. Amazing that you are not as dismissive of them as you are of others who have never got a fair chance. You just blithely dismiss them and write them off.

    To achieve success very hard decisions are essential. That means dropping friends where necessary. That's the difference between managers like Brian Cody and Derek McGrath. Brian Cody is never slow to seek advice. Down through the years Brian Cody has adopted a policy of dropping players who dont deliver-All Stars or no All Stars. There is no automatic selection. Deliver or face demotion to the bench! Derek McGrath? Thats the difference between success and failure.

    You've clearly never watched rugby if you think that's a similar defensive set up.

    Well as so many are asking how these players are then clearly the whole county does not know about this closed mind. The other poster named some good players but at least two of them declined call ups to the panel as they want to play soccer as well as club hurling. Can't blame them if that's what they want.

    I can only think of one player who hasn't really contributed this year despite starting all the games. So who are these examples you can provide?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 160 ✭✭ crottys lake
    Banned


    culbaire wrote: »
    Agree 100%

    Do yourself a favour as it is nearly too late. NAME THE FOUR PLAYER'S....

    Your use of the word ''bastardized'' springs to mind.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 160 ✭✭ crottys lake
    Banned


    The news on Barry Coughlan is more encouraging. May not be as bad as first thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 mountgomery burns


    It's only a league game when they win, it's a 'legitimate' case for a change of management when they lose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    You've clearly never watched rugby if you think that's a similar defensive set up.

    Well as so many are asking how these players are then clearly the whole county does not know about this closed mind. The other poster named some good players but at least two of them declined call ups to the panel as they want to play soccer as well as club hurling. Can't blame them if that's what they want.

    I can only think of one player who hasn't really contributed this year despite starting all the games. So who are these examples you can provide?
    I will debate the rules of Rugby Union with you any day. Also the rules of Rugby League. Bring it on!


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭ culbaire
    Registered User


    Do yourself a favour as it is nearly too late. NAME THE FOUR PLAYER'S....

    Your use of the word ''bastardized'' springs to mind.
    Address the issues I raised!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,631 ✭✭✭✭ PTH2009
    Registered User


    http://www.wlrfm.com/sport/local/107776-waterfords-barry-coughlin-sidelined-til-the-summer-with-a-broken-jaw.html

    Barron, Pauric and Austin Gleeson doubtful

    Hopefully we might see Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony return

    Be nice to pick up the win and get another game on the 16th April but with the county championship games fixed for the weekends of 16th & 23rd April (Derek supposably consulted with the county board to fix the games for those dates) I can't see us putting in a massive effort on Sunday up in Galway but we just have too wait and see


This discussion has been closed.
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