Northern Ireland question for under 40s

OldMrBrennan83

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5starpool

I'm just about over 40 I would certainly vote no to a united Ireland if there was a vote, both for economic and cultural reasons. If in the utopian scenario of there being very little economic downside, or no political or violent downsides either I'd vote in favour, but there is zero chance of that being the case.

One good upside of it though would be that it would be the ideal scenario to get rid of anything to do with religion from our schools or constitution, and that would be a powerful argument in favour of it. Knowing the crap that happens here though, they would probably enshrine 2 religions in the constitution instead of 1.

I grew up about 40 miles from the border and growing up seeing the madness up there in the 80's and early 90's it might as well have been 10,000 miles away.

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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Without informing yourself...great.

OldMrBrennan83

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Beanntraigheach

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Under 40, and I care about/am interested in those things

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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You can't live behind barricades in life or in your mind Patww.
Not one difference can you point out that cannot be found between people in other parts.

'I believe it to be so therefore it is so' doesn't really cut it.

OldMrBrennan83

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SkepticQuark

I'm actually Scottish and 19 but have been living here long enough I suppose to give my two cents (been through the entire education system before anyone asks). In terms of the idea, in a perfect world, I'd probably vote yes to a United Ireland just like I would support Scottish independence. However, we aren't in a perfect world and with The Troubles still being in the minds of many people and not to mention the economics of it I would vote no. I didn't support Scottish independence the last time because again it economically just didn't make sense.

I know a lot of people like to vote for these things with their romantic view of what their ideal outcome from the vote looks like but in reality, I think you have to be realistic. When it comes to things like this I would vote purely on how it would work or succeed/fail, there's no point chasing a dream like a United Ireland or an independent Scotland if it were to fall apart very quickly. I do very much understand though why someone would support either/both of those things, they are something many people dream of happening and when the opportunity presents itself they don't want to miss it but I just personally don't think that way.

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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And a hard border? Will that impact you at all?

My Dad was big into nationalism, have a grandaunt who was the last SF TD in Limerick (before the most recent election), her siblings fought in the War of Independence, the Civil War, she went on hunger strike in Kilmainham etc. Can remember the day Bobby Sands died, we were all brought up steeped in the idea that NI is our birthright, our country. But I also remember the images of people clawing through the rubble of Frizzell's Fish Shop to pull out pensioners and kids, the retaliation in Greysteel...and frankly while I still believe in a 32 county Ireland, nothing is worth going back to that.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And a hard border? Will that impact you at all?

It probably won't impact the majority of the south at all!.
It will affect border counties but apart from that, I'd imagine the rest of the country couldn't care less!

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

It probably won't impact the majority of the south at all!.
It will affect border counties but apart from that, I'd imagine the rest of the country couldn't care less!

So we just move the 'we don't care' line further south then? What great people you are.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So we just move the 'we don't care' line further south then? What great people you are.

Hey, who are you referring to?
I'm merely stating what i think, it will affect border counties. My home being one of them. Further away, i don't think they care.

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

Hey, who are you referring to?
I'm merely stating what i think, it will affect border counties. My home being one of them. Further away, i don't think they care.

It has the potential to affect the whole country.
If people had to be 'affected' to care about something how little would have been done in this country or the world.
I wasn't affected by gay marriage but I cared etc etc.

Call it what it is, laziness of mind and a culture of 'I'm alright jack'.

cournioni

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

I care about the North, it's only a few kilometers up the road from me and I have plenty of friends, customers and suppliers from the other side of the border. They're as Irish as anyone south of the border and it annoys me when people try to say that they aren't.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It has the potential to affect the whole country.
If people had to be 'affected' to care about something how little would have been done in this country or the world.
I wasn't affected by gay marriage but I cared etc etc.

Call it what it is, laziness of mind and a culture of 'I'm alright jack'.

I agree, but to the majority of people away from the border, it doesn't matter to them at all.
Particularly the history etc, they just don't want to know. The younger generation in particular, i don't actually think that's a bad thing. My friends kids, along the southern side of the border, it means nothing to them, they have friends either side & thank god it doesn't matter!

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

Hey, who are you referring to?
I'm merely stating what i think, it will affect border counties. My home being one of them.  Further away, i don't think they care.

It has the potential to affect the whole country.
If people had to be 'affected' to care about something how little would have been done in this country or the world.
I wasn't affected by gay marriage but I cared etc etc.

Call it what it is, laziness of mind and a culture of 'I'm alright jack'.

Maybe they just don't care Francie. You seem to have an issue with multiple posters who are just being honest. Maybe that is how they feel and they like their country the way it is. I don't think they are trying to wind you up.

JupiterKid

It seems to me that Republicans, and those in the border counties in particular, are on a different planet to that of the majority of people in the Republic.

A 32 County Ireland may be the goal for many, and I actually would like to see it one day, but not at the cost of reigniting the Troubles and dragging down the entire island economically and politically. Most people want to just get on with their lives, bring up their children well and be happy and healthy and obsessing about the North is just not on their priority list.

If only some people accepted that.

FrancieBrady

JupiterKid wrote: »

It seems to me that Republicans, and those in the border counties in particular, are on a different planet to that of the majority of people in the Republic.

A 32 County Ireland may be the goal for many, and I actually would like to see it one day, but not at the cost of reigniting the Troubles and dragging down the entire island economically and politically. Most people want to just get on with their lives, bring up their children well and be happy and healthy and obsessing about the North is just not on their priority list.

If only some people accepted that.

It is poised to significantly drag us down as it is because it exists a partitioned statelet that has failed.
If you are unaware of the concerns then that is your problem and choice.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Maybe they just don't care Francie. You seem to have an issue with multiple posters who are just being honest. Maybe that is how they feel and they like their country the way it is. I don't think they are trying to wind you up.

I wouldn't be having any fantasy dreams based on a boards thread MLP.

We republicans have somebody on the inside now. She's called Arlene.

JupiterKid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is poised to significantly drag us down as it is because it exists a partitioned statelet that has failed.
If you are unaware of the concerns then that is your problem and choice.

And what's your solution? Northern Ireland has existed for nearly a century now. Enforced reunification and reigniting the troubles and the spread of the violence to the rest of the island? Because that's what would probably happen if reunification happened tomorrow.

punk_one82

I'm in my mid-20s and from a border county. Clearly remember making the trips to Newry and Belfast in the 90's and army checkpoints being the norm. Even have more recent stories of the British Army less than 2km from the border coming out of the side of the road at night time to stop a car in front of me. Very interested in the history/politics of the north and the romantic notion of a united Ireland definitely appeals to me, but the realist in me knows it would cause trouble and economically might not be feasible.

As someone else mentioned when you cross the border the buildings and infrastructure certainly look British, but the people on the other side of the border can be as Irish as anyone in the south. Fair enough a lot of people in the republic don't care about that fact as it doesn't make a difference to their lives, but I think we'd be doing those people and our country a disservice to not recognise their right to be Irish. Our ancestors once fought for the same right, and now that we southerners have it easy we forget that other people across the border still want the same recognition.

FrancieBrady

JupiterKid wrote: »

And what's your solution? Northern Ireland has existed for nearly a century now. Enforced reunification and reigniting the troubles and the spread of the violence to the rest of the island? Because that's what would probably happen if reunification happened tomorrow.

Who said anything about forced? You have heard of the GFA. An agreement the 'unconcerned' Irish electorate came out in huge numbers to endorse.

It will be a majority vote.

With the British on one side delighted to get rid and mandated to support the agreement and the Irish on the other there would be no point in a sustained campaign of violence nor a possibility it would be of any scale or equipped.
Think of the logistics of getting any arms in against that. This is not the 70s or 80s. It isn't feasible.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too. Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different. The people's mentality is different. Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

Monaghan are playing Fermanagh in Clones in the Ulster SFC on May 20th. The only differences you will spot will be the team kits and the flags......

Noddyholder

JupiterKid wrote: »

It seems to me that Republicans, and those in the border counties in particular, are on a different planet to that of the majority of people in the Republic.

A 32 County Ireland may be the goal for many, and I actually would like to see it one day, but not at the cost of reigniting the Troubles and dragging down the entire island economically and politically. Most people want to just get on with their lives, bring up their children well and be happy and healthy and obsessing about the North is just not on their priority list.

If only some people accepted that.

It seems to me that you generalise for a lot of people , First you said that 70% of the people don't want a UI, Now were down to the border counties living in a different planet :-) well done.

Noddyholder

GFA
It is for the people of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a United Ireland, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland.

In July, one month after the Brexit vote, a Paddy Power/Red C Research poll for the Sunday Times found that 65% of people in the Republic said they would vote in favour of a united Ireland.

An opinion poll carried out this week by Amárach Research for Claire Byrne Live asked people in the Republic ‘Is it time to have a United Ireland?’ Just under half (46%) said yes, 32% said no and 22% were unsure. The highest percentage of people in favour of a united Ireland were those in the 25-34 age group, with 54% saying yes.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny: ”We have made it perfectly clear that the question of a united Ireland is contained in the Good Friday Agreement, which I support fully, and of which I, as Head of Government, am a co-guarantor with the British Government.

Micheál Martin said: “Fianna Fáil is absolutely committed to the reunification of Ireland and has been since its foundation. While in Government we were central to the Good Friday Negotiations, in which we negotiated

Brendan Howlin s: ”It is the view of the Labour Party that reunification of the island of Ireland must be our ambition.

https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi634rn2fjSAhXJChoKHRaDDwUQFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Funited-ireland-border-poll-3136932-Dec2016%2F&usg=AFQjCNFaO9troqMi5jjigGrbrivbHndIFA


According to one poster here, there all Republicans, And as SF don't have the only right to be called a Republican party maybe he is right, but I don't think that's what he meant.

Galwayguy35

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I notice this with my sister who is 21.

I asked her about Martin McGuinness when I saw her over the weekend and I just got a blank stare, it dawned on me that she didn't even know who he was. I've probed her on other political issues before and have been left dumbfounded at the lack of basic knowledge.

She'd have zero affinity with Europe also. I suppose in fairness that's common enough on these islands. We don't tend to identify as 'European'.

She's a bright girl otherwise, just seems to have a total apathy for politics.

I find that baffling to be honest that in 2017 with more channels than we know what to do with on TV and also with everyone hooked up to the internet that someone wouldn't know who someone like McGuinnes is.

I'm 42 and we had 2 channels growing up but still had a good idea what was going on in the country and the world in general.

Romance, culture, history and a grá for the aul gaeilge are irrelevancies for the most part for the majority of people when set against jobs, houses, services, peace.

I don't think it's a certainty that reunification threatens peace but i can't see it happening without significant impact on the other things, which could lead to resentment and who knows from there.

I do feel sure that no good could come now for a pressurised reunification put on the agenda aggressively by a cohort who fetishize the irish language, a gaelic heritage and culture and who seem eager at the drop of a hat to bring any discussion back to 1922, or 1970.

Someday, maybe. Brexit certainly makes it a valid topic. But we're not there yet.

FrancieBrady

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I find that baffling to be honest that in 2017 with more channels than we know what to do with on TV and also with everyone hooked up to the internet that someone wouldn't know who someone like McGuinnes is.

I'm 42 and we had 2 channels growing up but still had a good idea what was going on in the country and the world in general.

It is not that hard to work out why she wouldn't know tbh.

BrokenArrows

Im under 40.

I see no reason to try and bring about a united ireland.
Both sides currently have the freedom to travel, live and work on whatever side of the border they wish.

Personally if i was in the North i would be against becoming part of the republic mainly for financial reasons.
UK has less overall income tax and they also get free healthcare which has already been paid for by income taxes.

I do however expect a unification in a generation or two by natural causes.
I expect NI to break away from the UK after they leave the EU. The after that all calms down the "unionists" no longer have a link to the crown so will probably give up and eventually they will join the republic.