Northern Ireland question for under 40s

JupiterKid

Noddyholder wrote: »

Throw up a link for that will ya .or is that just in Jupitars world .

Did I say that was the result of an actual poll? If you presented the full bill for reunification to the Irish electorate most would baulk at the cost of reunification. But here's a poll that shows only 33% would vote for reunification.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0304/857226-poll-united-ireland/

Noddyholder

JupiterKid wrote: »

Did I say that was the result of an actual poll? If you presented the full bill for reunification to the Irish electorate most would baulk at the cost of reunification. But here's a poll that shows only 33% would vote for reunification.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0304/857226-poll-united-ireland/

When the undecided are excluded - 50.4% said they would vote in favour, 49.6% said they would vote against.

Where is your 70 per cent ?

Noddyholder

JupiterKid wrote: »

The major political parties (with the exception of the Shinners) would NOT support unification at any cost. Yes, my family got out of the mire, and I am grateful to my mother and father for wanting a peaceful environment for my sisters and I to grow up in, but most of my relatives remained in the North and I could see how they suffered.

Perhaps in the distant long-term, unification may be a workable possibility. But not for a number of generations yet. Not only the economic case against, but the immature and delicate political environment in NI shows that it would be foolhardy at best and invite a new Troubles at worst.

I never said anything about cost don't be twisting it , All the main political parties in the south support the unification of Ireland, fact.

FrancieBrady

JupiterKid wrote: »

The major political parties (with the exception of the Shinners) would NOT support unification at any cost. Yes, my family got out of the mire, and I am grateful to my mother and father for wanting a peaceful environment for my sisters and I to grow up in, but most of my relatives remained in the North and I could see how they suffered.

Perhaps in the distant long-term, unification may be a workable possibility. But not for a number of generations yet. Not only the economic case against, but the immature and delicate political environment in NI shows that it would be foolhardy at best and invite a new Troubles at worst.

One thinks Jupiter might be in for a shock in the next few years.
This debate is only about to get going. The idea of unity is everywhere at the moment, even this thread is a sign of it.

riffmongous

You probably won't get a decent answer here, Boards swung away from Republicanism a while ago, around the same time Reddit became popular (dont bother to ask there either as it'll just be the mirror image of here).

One thing I would say relating to young people though is that zesty Republican memes are becoming pretty popular

JupiterKid

Noddyholder wrote: »

When the undecided are excluded - 50.4% said they would vote in favour, 49.6% said they would vote against.

Where is your 70 per cent ?

I have read in the Irish Times that 70% were against reunification if the full economic costs and perhaps more importantly the potential return of the Troubles were factored in. I'm not going to post up any more links as I don't see why I have to justify myself.

Ok - so you're all for reunification, even if that means a return to the Troubles or worse. You just have to accept that many others don't support reunification for whatever reason and that's not necessarily because they don't care about the North (but so many don't and given the circus up there, I don't blame them).

Mrs OBumble

FTA69 wrote: »

So nothing north of the border is Irish? What about Gaelscoileanna and hurling and traditional music? What would you call them?

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too. Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different. The people's mentality is different. Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

riffmongous

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too. Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different. The people's mentality is different. Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

Absolute nonsense

OldMrBrennan83

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FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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There are huge differences between Galway people and Kerry people.
Your post is ridiculous nonsense based in dislike, laziness and no small amount of ignorance.

OldMrBrennan83

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Noddyholder

JupiterKid wrote: »

I have read in the Irish Times that 70% were against reunification if the full economic costs and perhaps more importantly the potential return of the Troubles were factored in. I'm not going to post up any more links as I don't see why I have to justify myself.

Ok - so you're all for reunification, even if that means a return to the Troubles or worse. You just have to accept that many others don't support reunification for whatever reason and that's not necessarily because they don't care about the North (but so many don't and given the circus up there, I don't blame them).

First you say its 70%, I ask you for link & you put up an RTE one which says nothing of the sort,.

I do accept others don't want reunification, were have I said I don't and like you they will just have to accept that quite a lot do want a United Ireland.

And its your self you need to justify your opinion's with not me, sure ya don't even know me nor I you.

. Thanks.

Noddyholder

Patww79 wrote: »

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On numerous of your posts here on boards.ie you have said you don not like Northern Irish people.

Noddyholder

Patww79 wrote: »

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I have a Northern Irish identity and I am from Ulster and I am Irish, Where do you live pat in some bubble up in Dublin...

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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Well tell us what they are then, these bigger differences?

I am guessing you dislike from the spuriousness of your stated reasons.

OldMrBrennan83

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FTA69

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too. Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different. The people's mentality is different. Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

You can drive along the border and most of the time you won't have a clue what state you're in from one minute to the next. Someone from Monaghan will have a lot more in common with someone from Tyrone or someone from Cavan will have a lot more in common with someone from Fermanagh than either ever will with someone from Dublin. This talk of "mentality" is arbitrary, unquantifiable nonsense, there's a million mentalities in Ireland - rich and poor, urban and rural, Catholic and Protestant, religious and secular, Irish speaking and English speaking, islander and mainlanders etc - none of which impact on nationality at all.

Someone earlier on said I was twisting words, all I was doing was relaying back their arbitrary definitions in a slightly different context. I've yet to hear any actual or real concrete analysis on how northerners aren't Irish bar lazy and irritated declarations along the lines of 'they just aren't'. I dunno, maybe it's a legacy of years of censorship in the south and the result of a political class there who did their best to screen the place out or something. Who knows.

People can have their opinions, but if you're going to soapbox about how Irish people from Ireland aren't actually Irish because of some vague rubbish then expect to be called on it.

Beanntraigheach

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too. Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different. The people's mentality is different. Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

Yeah, it's all different and scary up there in that alien place, sure even the buildings are foreign-lookin'!
Hilarious stuff.

A Little Pony

FTA69 wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They have hurling and Irish traditional music in Australia, too.    Doesn't make 'em Irish.

When I drive over the border, the buildings and civic infrastructure look different.   The people's mentality is different.    Far more different than when I drive from Dublin to Galway.

It's a different country, and so long as they aren't doing too many human rights violations, I don't care too much what they're up to.

You can drive along the border and most of the time you won't have a clue what state you're in from one minute to the next. Someone from Monaghan will have a lot more in common with someone from Tyrone or someone from Cavan will have a lot more in common with someone from Fermanagh than either ever will with someone from Dublin. This talk of "mentality" is arbitrary, unquantifiable nonsense, there's a million mentalities in Ireland - rich and poor, urban and rural, Catholic and Protestant, religious and secular, Irish speaking and English speaking, islander and mainlanders etc - none of which impact on nationality at all.

Someone earlier on said I was twisting words, all I was doing was relaying back their arbitrary definitions in a slightly different context. I've yet to hear any actual or real concrete analysis on how northerners aren't Irish bar lazy and irritated declarations along the lines of 'they just aren't'. I dunno, maybe it's a legacy of years of censorship in the south and the result of a political class there who did their best to screen the place out or something. Who knows.

People can have their opinions, but if you're going to soapbox about how Irish people from Ireland aren't actually Irish because of some vague rubbish then expect to be called on it.

Its because of the Unionist element and a 96 year different state.

Charles Babbage

Young people are generally self-obsessed and take up fads, so they have an "I'm alright Jack" attitude in general and not only towards the 6 counties and it isn't a fad at present. They would be all worried about the homosexuals or black people not being fully accepted in Irish society while being happy to ignore Fermanagh people, and they haven't the maturity to see that one form of discrimination is not more acceptable than another.

Berserker

A Little Pony wrote: »

If a United Ireland ever happened it would completely rip up the Irish state and everything would be changed. The flag, the anthem, the government, the system of government (Northern representation in the North, and not just in the South), the health service, social security, the police, the Army, opt out for Irish or British citizenship if so desired, so many things.

Agree with you wholeheartedly on this. Can't see people in the RoI, those who are of a republican mindset, in particular, giving up their anthem, flag, re-joining the commonwealth etc. I still think that the cost of supporting NI would be the biggest bugbear overall.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I only know the basics of Southern politics but I live like 28 mile from Dundalk but it might as well be a thousand miles. I'd love to know what it is generally like living in the Republic, what is the daily political discussions, is the health service good etc.

Good post. Nice to get an idea of how people from NI view the RoI. I used to work with a lad, lovely chap, who had these wonderful ideas about the RoI. Recall interviewing him and he was mad to move down here to be closer to Croke Park etc. The cost of living in Dublin blew him away and he moved back up to NI within six months. I still remember the expression on his face when he opened his first pay check and he looked at the amount of tax he was paying. You cannot spend money in NI in comparison to the RoI.

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairness that's down to education. Everyone on this island should know who McGuinnes was.

If someone has no interest about the politics of NI, why would they need to know about him?

FTA69 wrote: »

I never got the foreign country stuff, Ireland is Ireland - it always will be.

Belfast does not look like an Irish city. It screams of the North of England. Reminds me of Liverpool and Manchester specifically.

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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Or as Paisley was wont to say, he was Irish with a British identity.
Takes all sorts, nothing wrong with it.

You can say you are Northern Irish but what you mean is northern Irish or from the north of Ireland.

FTA69

Likewise I don't mind people being anti-unity; but thats not the point winding me up at the moment. It's this arbitrary denial of other people's nationality based on vague chicanery which is puzzling me.

"Why are people from the North not Irish"
"They're different"
"How?"
"Mindset. The buildings are different. Maybe they are but not as Irish. And the north is the UK"
"So was Dublin in 1921 - does that mean Irish identity didn't exist before then?"
"They're just different"

It's just b*llocks really. One of the good things about being Irish over here is that nobody bothers with that sort of crap and we're all Irish without any snyde attitudes.

.........

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm under 40 and was heavily involved in Republicanism at one stage. I still passionately believe in Irish unity but it has to be based in a general overhaul of how both states are run; it's about the political and economic systems we have and alternatives to them which interest me primarily. As Bernadette McAliskey said recently, if unity entails a single state run by the gobsh*tes we currently have in power in both parts of Ireland then they can keep it.

Ireland has always been run by users, crooks and gobshytes and always will be, the only thing that changes from time to time is their accents.

Every year I get older, I see this confirmed more and more. My country is me and my family.

Berserker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can say you are Northern Irish but what you mean is northern Irish or from the north of Ireland.

Was amazed by the amount of young people in Belfast who categorised themselves as Northern Irish though. Pressed them on it and got the sense that they viewed themselves as the new Manx.

OldMrBrennan83

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Agricola

I took my father on a jaunt around the north back in 2014 for a couple of days. He'd hadn't been up since the bad old days of the 70's and it was my first time. Walked around Belfast, did the Titanic centre, went for a spin around east Belfast and out to Stormount. Did the Bushmills tour, Giant's Causeway, and made it over to Derry for a walk along the walls and a few pints in an aul fella's pub.

I've been to every corner of the island for short breaks and I have to say the north was by far the most welcoming. Everyone we dealt with had a word for us, asking where we were from and inquired about our itinerary. Maybe it's because when southerners go to other parts of the south, no one really gives a toss about you, we're all the one. There is a bit of the outsider about you when you go across the border. I just thought it was odd but very nice, especially for my father.

Would agree that it is a different country in many ways, but one that was nice to visit all the same!

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

Agree with you wholeheartedly on this. Can't see people in the RoI, those who are of a republican mindset, in particular, giving up their anthem, flag, re-joining the commonwealth etc. I still think that the cost of supporting NI would be the biggest bugbear overall.

I have no problem with flag or anthem. The flag thing is just 'never give in' stuff though. It very simply and stylish represents both traditions.
Commonwealth idea is just silly and having a monarch in any position is anathema to a new republic.

Good post. Nice to get an idea of how people from NI view the RoI. I used to work with a lad, lovely chap, who had these wonderful ideas about the RoI. Recall interviewing him and he was mad to move down here to be closer to Croke Park etc. The cost of living in Dublin blew him away and he moved back up to NI within six months. I still remember the expression on his face when he opened his first pay check and he looked at the amount of tax he was paying. You cannot spend money in NI in comparison to the RoI.

Watch the cost of living in the north over the next few years. Oh dear.

If someone has no interest about the politics of NI, why would they need to know about him?

more encouragement of laziness. Anyway the huge reaction to his death and the coverage lends the lie to a huge uninterested southern population.

Belfast does not look like an Irish city. It screams of the North of England. Reminds me of Liverpool and Manchester specifically.

And Dublin doesn't look like an English city? They built most of it ffs.

JupiterKid

Ironically despite the political sectarianism, Northeners are generally friendlier than people in the Repubilic. Back in 1990 and 1991, whilst still in school, I did a summer job doing market research for an ad agency on the streets of Belfast and nearly all the people I encountered were very approachable and friendly. My southern accent wasn't a problem at all.

Northerners are Irish but a different sort of Irish to those in the Republic.

FrancieBrady

Patww79 wrote: »

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Pathetic.
Just lazy dislike as I thought. That arbitary pick and choose attitude is about as useful to a culture as an ashtray on a motorbike.