Northern Ireland question for under 40s

BattyInNZ

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

Winterlong

BattyInNZ wrote: »

II'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

I think this line may bias any answers you receive!

gramar

As I meet the age requirement I can tell you that personally I don't have much interest nor never really had in Northern Ireland. I remember it on the news almost every night as child but though it was happening within a few hours drive it may as well have been the other side of the world.

kunst nugget

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Just about fit into the age group that you're talking about. You're asking a lot of questions that don't really have one simple answer. While I'm interested in our history and our culture, I wouldn't really be interested in Ireland being a united country at the moment. It would just lead to more misery and another outbreak of terrorist activities.

BattyInNZ wrote: »

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

Just because I have no interest in a United Ireland doesn't mean I'm happy to let the politicians in the Republic do whatever they want. It's a bit of a silly assumption tbh.

elefant

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

Yeah, they're wrong.

Not sure what that has to do with your closing statement though.

VinLieger

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

I care that they get on with their lives and stop bothering me with their ridiculous petty arguments and that goes for both sides. I owe nobody up there any loyalty.

Also your last line is just stupid.

swimming in a sea

Not sure what you mean by don't care. As I care as much about NI peoples history as I care about Cork peoples history which ain't much.

But if this thread goes down the line of do people in the republic want NI to join I think the answer from me would be I don't care but if it costs me €1 of my own money then no would be the answer.

Agricola

I care in as far as I want peace up there along with free travel and trade across the border. The more people down here that travel up there, do business and vice versa, the better it is for everyone and for the future.

But I don't care about Irish reunification. Unlike Scottish unionists who I believe would eventually get behind a winning independance vote, the same could not be said of Northern unionists in a border poll. It would be a catastrophe in every way and the economic side of it would be the least of the problems. Lets just all get along.

Chips Lovell

In my experience, it's the opposite. Young people, who don't remember the Troubles, are the ones who've romantic notions about uniting Ireland. Older people, who do remember, are far more wary.

Widdershins

I'm under 40 and do care. I don't have definite opinions on a united Ireland because, well, it's very complicated.

VinLieger

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

In my experience, it's the opposite. Young people, who don't remember the Troubles, are the ones who've romantic notions about uniting Ireland. Older people, who do remember, are far more wary.

For me its completely the opposite usually.

I find young people I think are more pragmatic about the economy and the cost of reunification whereas older people like you say have the memories.

And then you obviously have part of both groups the starry eyed nationalists who get a tear in their eye thinking about it. I think though that its a minority in both groups and is becoming more and more so as we are getting closer to at least a vote on it being a reality and the facts around it are setting in as regards costs, security, political upheaval etc

I actually think those people are the people who shout for unification at all costs and are quite simply incredibly selfish. Im under no illusion its definitely going to happen eventually however why can't we wait and make sure its done right so as we create a stronger country instead of throwing both of us inevitably back down into recession which would definitely happen if we reunified tomorrow as right now the south simply cannot afford the money pit that the north currently is.

Birneybau

Meh to be honest.

FTA69

I'm under 40 and was heavily involved in Republicanism at one stage. I still passionately believe in Irish unity but it has to be based in a general overhaul of how both states are run; it's about the political and economic systems we have and alternatives to them which interest me primarily. As Bernadette McAliskey said recently, if unity entails a single state run by the gobsh*tes we currently have in power in both parts of Ireland then they can keep it.

OfflerCrocGod

I don't see why the Republic wouldn't want a UI, people can see short term costs but can't see the long term benefits?

How many Protestants in the Republic are agitating for the country to be run by London? In two generations it will be the same in the north, talking about partitioning the island again would have you treated like a lunatic.

doolox

With the subvention and the existence of a very large public service NI would be a drain on the Souths existing tax arrangements and would cost southern taxpayers more, which most are not able or willing to pay. There would have to be a radical shake up in political arrangements on both sides before a political union of any sort could be realised.

Where would the capital of the New state be located?

Would it be a president or some sort of King/Queen?

How many reps North and South? By population or some other base?

Senate or Upper house how would that be arranged? Would the republican South tolerate Lords, Peerages etc and would the North tolerate a non noble president?

Would any of our 1937 constitution or their 1920 Govt of Ireland Act be kept on in the new arrangements or would a completely new set of Laws and constitution be needed? This would stir up old divisions and hatreds and would costs billions to formulate and implement. Who would pay for all this.

What would happen to the "special position" of religion in Ireland??

A huge question which is starting to be moved on in the South with the scandals of the Catholic Church forcing a radical rethink among the people of the South and increasing secularisation being seen as the way forward. Has a similar process taken place in the North?

BattyInNZ

kunst nugget wrote: »

Just about fit into the age group that you're talking about. You're asking a lot of questions that don't really have one simple answer. While I'm interested in our history and our culture, I wouldn't really be interested in Ireland being a united country at the moment. It would just lead to more misery and another outbreak of terrorist activities.



Just because I have no interest in a United Ireland doesn't mean I'm happy to let the politicians in the Republic do whatever they want. It's a bit of a silly assumption tbh.

I didn't mention a United Ireland - I meant Northern Ireland in general - as a part of the Island of Ireland

BattyInNZ

elefant wrote: »

Yeah, they're wrong.

Not sure what that has to do with your closing statement though.

Apathy & Lethargy

BattyInNZ

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by don't care. As I care as much about NI peoples history as I care about Cork peoples history which ain't much.

But if this thread goes down the line of do people in the republic want NI to join I think the answer from me would be I don't care but if it costs me €1 of my own money then no would be the answer.

Not talking about a United Ireland and my last line was about general 'don't care about anything' attitude.

VinLieger

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I didn't mention a United Ireland - I meant Northern Ireland in general - as a part of the Island of Ireland

We have our own problems people don't go round wondering whats happening next door every hour of the day.

Feisar

I'm glad there is equality in Northern Ireland now, other than that I'm not bothered.

I'm as Irish as a 10-10-20 bag full of turf however I don't spend my time worrying over which bunch of clowns is in power in NI or the Republic either for that matter.

infogiver

BattyInNZ wrote: »

I'm specific on the age because my younger sister and son told me yesterday that 'under 40s' in the Republic don't care about Northern Ireland, don't care about our history, north or south, and pretty much don't care about most things related to Ireland as a nation/country/culture etc.etc.

Thoughts please - I'm desperately hoping they're wrong but if they're right I now know why the politicians in this country can get away with anything and everything!

My daughter is 20 and she certainly doesn't care about NI, she and all but one of her friends are Europeans at best, who just happen to live in the Ireland part of Europe, our specific history culture etc is of no interest to them, that's it really.

Your Face

Its a biased question in the following way:

You equate not caring about the North to not caring about history.
Bad start there.

PhuckHugh

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

In my experience, it's the opposite. Young people, who don't remember the Troubles, are the ones who've romantic notions about uniting Ireland. Older people, who do remember, are far more wary.

And how did the troubles begin ? One element of it was the people in the south essentially turned their back on their northern brethren and left them to the devices of mobs/B-Specials/gerrymandering ...

We very much contributed to the troubles by letting our own people to rot- The older people should be reminded of it everyday.

wakka12

I have different answers for some of your questions, Im 21. I care about Irelands culture, I speak irish fluently, Im interested in our heritage and history. Id like to visit northern ireland and get to know its cities a bit better sometime, when I can. So I'care ' about northern ireland to some extent just not regarding the aspect you're concerned with. But i cant say I care too much about whether Ireland becomes a united country or not , I don't really see any advantage to it what so ever

Also Id agree with what your sister and son said. I would also be of the opinion that most young people don't care about Irelands culture or history. Its just not a big part of modern lifestyle. This is not unique to Ireland though I think most young people from other european countries are the same way

Tayschren

Most over 40s dont give a flying feck about the mess up north either. . its the whiney accent, its just grating

I love Sean nos

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

...the long term benefits?

Such as?

jmayo

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

I don't see why the Republic wouldn't want a UI, people can see short term costs but can't see the long term benefits?

Ehh what are all these long term benefits ?

Most people, an especially politicians, worry about the short term because that is what they are living in.

PhuckHugh wrote: »

And how did the troubles begin ? One element of it was the people in the south essentially turned their back on their northern brethren and left them to the devices of mobs/B-Specials/gerrymandering ...

We very much contributed to the troubles by letting our own people to rot- The older people should be reminded of it everyday.

And this is exactly why I don't really want a United Ireland.
Both sides have enough with chips on their shoulders, we don't need them and the associated costs to us in finance and possibly even in lives.

The above mindset is the very one that complains that Lynch should have invaded the North and dragged the Republic into am actual war with Britain, which would have destroyed the Republic however pathetic and backwards as it was.

Some people also fail to remember sinn fein and PIRA refused to recognise the legitimacy of the Republic, long before they all became peace advocates.

DEFTLEFTHAND

infogiver wrote: »

My daughter is 20 and she certainly doesn't care about NI, she and all but one of her friends are Europeans at best, who just happen to live in the Ireland part of Europe, our specific history culture etc is of no interest to them, that's it really.

I notice this with my sister who is 21.

I asked her about Martin McGuinness when I saw her over the weekend and I just got a blank stare, it dawned on me that she didn't even know who he was. I've probed her on other political issues before and have been left dumbfounded at the lack of basic knowledge.

She'd have zero affinity with Europe also. I suppose in fairness that's common enough on these islands. We don't tend to identify as 'European'.

She's a bright girl otherwise, just seems to have a total apathy for politics.

A Little Pony

If a United Ireland ever happened it would completely rip up the Irish state and everything would be changed. The flag, the anthem, the government, the system of government (Northern representation in the North, and not just in the South), the health service, social security, the police, the Army, opt out for Irish or British citizenship if so desired, so many things.

I only know the basics of Southern politics but I live like 28 mile from Dundalk but it might as well be a thousand miles. I'd love to know what it is generally like living in the Republic, what is the daily political discussions, is the health service good etc.

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

I'd love to know what it is generally like living in the Republic,

Ahhh pony....... never change, you're feigned ignorance never ceases to provide amusement

PhuckHugh

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh what are all these long term benefits ?

Most people, an especially politicians, worry about the short term because that is what they are living in.




And this is exactly why I don't really want a United Ireland.
Both sides have enough with chips on their shoulders, we don't need them and the associated costs to us in finance and possibly even in lives.

The above mindset is the very one that complains that Lynch should have invaded the North and dragged the Republic into am actual war with Britain, which would have destroyed the Republic however pathetic and backwards as it was.

Some people also fail to remember sinn fein and PIRA refused to recognise the legitimacy of the Republic, long before they all became peace advocates.

The problem begin in 1922 and was exasperated between then and the 50s - All long before the crisis faced by Lynch.

pablo57

Interesting thread. As an Northern Irish person living in Dublin for the past two years, I'm not particularly surprised by the outlook. From my experience, people in the Republic generally know the basics of NI politics much better than vice versa (even in nationalist circles), though it's shocking how many people I've met in Dublin either have never been over the border, or haven't been in 20+ years.

DanielODonnell

It makes sense if they only care about their local region but if someone from Kerry cared about Donegal but not about Derry then it is a bit silly, it would go against the whole principle of Irish nationalism, caring more about Jimmy O'Donnell from Buncrana but not Jimmy Maguire from Enniskillen.

Any person of a Gaelic heritage should care about the protection of the Gaelic culture in Ulster, a culture that the unionists would like to see diluted.

pauliebdub

Nothing makes me reach for the remote more quickly than a story about NI politics, I've no interest in hearing about it , visiting the place nor do I have any affinity with the people who live there.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

FrancieBrady

A high percentage of southern people will typically be more upset by a football tackle by a British person than they would ever be about what the British army did to Irish people.

A Little Pony

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree with you.

Nekarsulm

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

I don't see why the Republic wouldn't want a UI, people can see short term costs but can't see the long term benefits?

How many Protestants in the Republic are agitating for the country to be run by London? In two generations it will be the same in the north, talking about partitioning the island again would have you treated like a lunatic.

I'll answer that one for you, as best I can.

Out of about 190,000 protestants in the Republic, the number "agitating" for governance by London would be probably less than 50.
A small number if C of I clergy would be members of the Orange order, perhaps half of presbyterian clergy, and perhaps less than a dozen in the other various denominations.
These would be obviously "pro-UK" in general.
And these only because these churches tend to move clergy around, making no distinction between their northern and southern circuits.
In border counties, you would have a few hardliners amongst the laity, but in 99% of Southern Protestants, they see themselves as Irish first and foremost.
Most look northwards at the antics of their co-religionists with a mixture of bafflement, exasperation, and dismissal.
Perhaps as a result of all these reasons, I see a fairly strong Pro-European mindset amongst Republic of Ireland protestants, because we have had a stomach full of religious interference in Government, both north and south of the border.

diomed

I'm over 40 (by a long way) and I don't care about Northern Ireland.
Did you assume the over 40s care?

Ursus Horribilis

I feel like it's a foreign country so I don't particularly care about it. Wild horses wouldn't drag me and my southern registered car up there around the 12th July. If I open my mouth they can spot straight away that I'm not one of them.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

diomed wrote: »

I'm over 40 (by a long way) and I don't care about Northern Ireland.
Did you assume the over 40s care?

I'm almost double it and I too couldn't care less for a united Ireland. I like Northern Ireland, visit is many times each year, enjoy the people and attractions etc. but that's as far as it goes.

I only care because i grew up close to the southern side of the border. We shop in our nearest big town, in the north. plenty of my schoolmates went to college up there.
And now, it is part of my life because of my job.
As regards a united Ireland ( if that's your question OP ) nah, i don't want them!

You should ask the under 25s who have no clue about the troubles and they couldn't care less. My friend's daughter (21) and all her buddies follow Gerry Adams on Twitter because ' he's so funny' !!!
They have no interest in the politics or history of any of it.
I can only hope that kids in the North are the same, then the future might be bright.

steddyeddy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I notice this with my sister who is 21.

I asked her about Martin McGuinness when I saw her over the weekend and I just got a blank stare, it dawned on me that she didn't even know who he was. I've probed her on other political issues before and have been left dumbfounded at the lack of basic knowledge.

She'd have zero affinity with Europe also. I suppose in fairness that's common enough on these islands. We don't tend to identify as 'European'.

She's a bright girl otherwise, just seems to have a total apathy for politics.

In fairness that's down to education. Everyone on this island should know who McGuinnes was.

FrancieBrady

I love the way the people who say they don't care, but care enough to post and that they think they are some part of an evolving class.
There were always people on this island who didn't 'care'.
We wouldn't have had 40 years of carnage and the decades of sectarian oppression before if southern people cared.

steddyeddy

You can bet most Irish do care. The North's heading to Brexit and a substantially poorer future. They're already the poorest part of the island economically and culturally. I think it's only fair to allow them to unite if and when the time comes.

FTA69

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I feel like it's a foreign country so I don't particularly care about it. Wild horses wouldn't drag me and my southern registered car up there around the 12th July. If I open my mouth they can spot straight away that I'm not one of them.

I never got the foreign country stuff, Ireland is Ireland - it always will be. Politically it may be divided between two states but the country is what it is. The notion that the Armagh football team, or Mary McAleese or Gerry Adams or whoever would be considered foreign is just silly to me. Likewise there aren towns, farms and even houses that are split by the border. The notion that one side of a community on the other edge of an arbitrary border drawn by British imperialists are somehow radically different is bogus and you can see that when you go to these areas.

As for the accents, I'm from Cork and people from Dublin will know that straight away when I open my mouth. It doesn't make me a "foreigner" per se.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I love the way the people who say they don't care, but care enough to post and that they think they are some part of an evolving class.
There were always people on this island who didn't 'care'.
We wouldn't have had 40 years of carnage and the decades of sectarian oppression before if southern people cared.

People are only answering the OPs questions Francie!!
She wanted to know if people cared......

JupiterKid

I'm 42, born in Belfast, raised in Dublin as my family couldn't wait to escape the horrific violence in mid 1970s Belfast and whilst the troubles were definitely caused by the Orange Stormont governments pushing their luck after 1922, I have no desire for a united Ireland.

It would only bring more bloodshed, economic chaos and instability. I saw first hand what chaos does to a country and people and I never want that revisited on the island of Ireland.

Die hard dinosaur republicans might want to consider that.

Ursus Horribilis

FTA69 wrote: »

I never got the foreign country stuff, Ireland is Ireland - it always will be. Politically it may be divided between two states but the country is what it is. The notion that the Armagh football team, or Mary McAleese or Gerry Adams or whoever would be considered foreign is just silly to me. Likewise there aren towns, farms and even houses that are split by the border. The notion that one side of a community on the other edge of an arbitrary border drawn by British imperialists are somehow radically different is bogus and you can see that when you go to these areas.

As for the accents, I'm from Cork and people from Dublin will know that straight away when I open my mouth. It doesn't make me a "foreigner" per se.

You might think it's silly but I'm not going to change my mind at this stage. I don't feel anything north of the border is Irish. I'm sorry if that offends people but that's the way it is. I don't believe anyone who plays for Armagh is as Irish as I am. I don't consider Gerry Adams to be Irish.

FTA69

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

You might think it's silly but I'm not going to change my mind at this stage. I don't feel anything north of the border is Irish. I'm sorry if that offends people but that's the way it is. I don't believe anyone who plays for Armagh is as Irish as I am. I don't consider Gerry Adams to be Irish.

So nothing north of the border is Irish? What about Gaelscoileanna and hurling and traditional music? What would you call them? In what way would someone like Mary McAleese not be Irish?

An Irish speaking, Irish passport holder from one of Ireland's 32 counties would qualify as Irish for me, I can't see how you'd think different.

Conchir

I wouldn't be keen on a United Ireland. I see it as a different country basically, it's never been a part of Ireland for as long as I've been alive, or for my parents' lives. Obviously there's cultural ties along the way, but enough to warrant unification? Not enough for me.

Having said that, some people I went to school with are very strongly pro-reunification, so it's not possible to tar everyone under 40 with the same brush. If I was to take a guess though, I'd say more people fall into the indifferent/no to reunification camp than do into the pro-reunification side.