2018 Leaf

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Why ? If you got say, Leaf II and it has around 250 odd Kms how often would you use the Public network ?

I have no interest in buying another leaf.

What I would consider, and am currently discussing with her indoors, is whether a ZE40 zoe is big enough, or if we need an Ioniq.

I currently charge at least once per day on AC, usually twice. I have 2 trips of approx 160km each weekend that require a fast charge stop each. We have family that is a 300km round trip that we visit approx 2 times in a 3 month period. Conceivably with aZoe then the only "fast" charge needed would be on that trip. So 2 times every three months. Not prohibitive, but i would not pay 20 euro a month flat fee just to use a fast charger 2 times every 3 months.

No interest in leaf 2, if it was 20k I still wouldnt buy one.

ELM327

Water John wrote: »

ESB/EirGrid would have to produce a protocol that allows private suppliers enter the market.

Not if they view the ESB as the end user as opposed to the EV owner they won't.

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

No interest in leaf 2, if it was 20k I still wouldnt buy one.

Could I ask why not?

Based on current reports I'm likely to be greatly disappointed by Leaf 2 but
(1)I'm reserving judgement a little until I see whether the disappointing reports are true
(2)Even if it is disappointing it will certainly beat the current Ioniq so unless Hyundai pull something out of the bag in the next 12 months, I'll still probably end up with a second hand Leaf 2 in a year's time.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Could I ask why not?

Based on current reports I'm likely to be greatly disappointed by Leaf 2 but
(1)I'm reserving judgement a little until I see whether the disappointing reports are true
(2)Even if it is disappointing it will certainly beat the current Ioniq so unless Hyundai pull something out of the bag in the next 12 months, I'll still probably end up with a second hand Leaf 2 in a year's time.

I just don't want to support Nissan's EVs. They don't offer cooling for batteries and expect gen1 owners (especially earlier gen1) to cope with massive battery deg. 40kWh is sub par for a next gen EV. The service I experienced at a nissan dealership was sub par to say the least, and I have had nothing positive from the brand to make it worthy to give them future business.

I have never owned a renault but I have had a clio as a rental recently and they are a nice car. Have never even sat in a Hyundai, so have nothing against them either.

I will however never buy another nissan. Certainly not a new one anyway.

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop.
If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

Can't see how ESB would be left with a monopoly, Against EU regs. ESB/EirGrid would have to produce a protocol that allows private suppliers enter the market.

Nothing stopping any third party establishing chargers after all tesla has done it

But the realities are that it's an effective monopoly with such a spread of network

The Zoe is getting a little old at this stage.

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

I just don't want to support Nissan's EVs. They don't offer cooling for batteries and expect gen1 owners (especially earlier gen1) to cope with massive battery deg. 40kWh is sub par for a next gen EV. The service I experienced at a nissan dealership was sub par to say the least, and I have had nothing positive from the brand to make it worthy to give them future business.

I have never owned a renault but I have had a clio as a rental recently and they are a nice car. Have never even sat in a Hyundai, so have nothing against them either.

I will however never buy another nissan. Certainly not a new one anyway.

Can't fault my leaf. Certainly would buy a 60 kWh leaf 2

80sDiesel

Water John wrote: »

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop.
If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

I do believe in EVs. Too much one one say. When i lived in NZ i had a personal number plate . TWIZY.

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

Can't fault my leaf. Certainly would buy a 60 kWh leaf 2

Not if it doesn't exist you wont! :cool::pac:

cros13

80sDiesel wrote:

I do believe in EVs. Too much one one say. When i lived in NZ i had a personal number plate . TWIZY.

Water John wrote:

Great Diesel, to extrapulate from your mother's particular circumstances, to the majority of the pop. If you don't believe in EV, you have made your point.

Jaysus, are we in a religion now? :P

ELM327

cros13 wrote: »

Jaysus, are we in a religion now? :P

Yes.

unkel

Lord of Light! Come to us in our darkness. We offer you these false gods of fossil fuels. Take them and cast your light upon us. For the night is dark and full of terrors.

ELM327

But we can't make burning sacrifices to our lord Elon, since we don't use fossil fuels.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

But we can't make burning sacrifices to our lord Elon, since we don't use fossil fuels.

He made Tesla only for one thing - to offset the pollution SpaceX is doing... But they got really good with recycling recently...

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Not if it doesn't exist you wont! :cool::pac:

cros assures me it will and I fully expect it to be available with 12 months of the 40 kwh ( actually 44 kWh ) leaf

theres no way the Leaf 2 is designed to stop at 40kWh

heres how I see it playing out

Leaf 2 - 40 Kwh
Ioniq - upgrade - 48 kWh ( rumoured to be the limit of the enclosure)
Leaf 2 - 60 kWh

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

cros assures me it will and I fully expect it to be available with 12 months of the 40 kwh ( actually 44 kWh ) leaf

theres no way the Leaf 2 is designed to stop at 40kWh

heres how I see it playing out

Leaf 2 - 40 Kwh
Ioniq - upgrade - 48 kWh ( rumoured to be the limit of the enclosure)
Leaf 2 - 60 kWh

Inoiq 48kwh would have more range than base model 3, if they upgrade the drive train to near 200bhp, Tesla have a big rival

Shows how vulnerable Tesla are too if a run of the mill company like Hyundai can make a great electric without really trying imo

Once battery companies sort out supply they are screwed imo

Audi, Toyota etc can all make better cars, they Just need batteries

Soarer

So is the Leaf 2 the only car whose battery capacity is being quoted as usable?

Current Leafs are 24 & 30kWh total.
Current Ioniq is 28kWh total.
Ioniq upgrade rumoured 48kWh total.
Leaf 2 is 40kWh usable (44 kWh total)?

unkel

How much would the 60kWh Leaf be?

I mean:

2017 Leaf 2 40kWh - $30k
2017 Model 3 50kWh - $35k

The Leaf 2 price is already pushing it. For only a few grand cheaper than a RWD performance saloon a size bigger with far bigger range. The only reason why Leaf 2 (and indeed Ioniq) will be selling is because the Model 3 is not yet available much.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

How much would the 60kWh Leaf be?

I mean:

2017 Leaf 2 40kWh - $30k
2017 Model 3 50kWh - $35k

The Leaf 2 price is already pushing it. For only a few grand cheaper than a RWD performance saloon a size bigger with far bigger range.

The indications are that the 40 kwh will be the same price as the median 30 kwh Leafs, again I would hazard a premium of say 3-4K euros for the 60

I dont think Leaf in ireland could sustain any price point over 30K and this is then encroaching on 50 kwh Model 3 pricing

I could keep the Leaf another year but then again if it really does have 250 - 280 Kms then it's probably all I need. Should do what then with a 30 min charge if it can charge at 65 Kw from the triple headed units, maybe 350-380 perhaps a bit more ? not bad really.

BoatMad

Leaked price lists for the Leaf reveals revealed that three trim variants will go on sale - Leaf S $29,990, Leaf SV $32,490, Leaf SL $36,200.

This means that the top of the range Leaf will almost cost the same as the base level Model 3, and in the UK after the government grant is factored in, you can pick on up for under £19,000.

Additionally it is rumoured that the Leaf will be able to achieve at least 200 miles of range which is a considerable spec bump on the previous Leafs.

My own view is that Leaf 2 will have to be 5K under Tesla to sell at all and 10K under to sell well

A 40kWh usable leaf will go nowhere near being a 200 mile car , I suspect it will be a 200-230 km car at best

there is a danger this model could be terribly underwhelming , its Nissan after all

Hyundai will be the beneficiary then

Nissan know that's not going to cut it.

I think we should stop speculating until the EPA result comes out , at least that's a pretty good test and gives a good indicator to the kms to expect, some will get a good bit more and some less.

unkel

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

Yeah it will sell in the pathetic numbers the current leaf sells, 20K or 30 K doesn't matter, Leaf II needs to be a good 250 Km range ev with faster charging.

I don't expect it to sell well in Ireland either way.

unkel

Most 24kWh Leafs sold in the region of €30k. Which is a lot of money for a very limited range car. Now we are at the point that we can buy reasonable range cars for about €25k (no more than a diesel car of the same size)

But only 0.1% of people in this country own an EV. And I guess 95% of people are still pretty much completely ignorant of modern EVs...

Bif

How much will the Tesla 3 be in Ireland?

unkel

About €32k-€33k. See grogi's calculation on the Model 3 thread. That's before any extras or delivery charges. Extras are extremely expensive.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

About €32k-€33k. See grogi's calculation on the Model 3 thread. That's before any extras or delivery charges. Extras are extremely expensive.

hmm , every price estimate Ie seem , puts the base Model 3 at 35K, I cant see it being cheaper then that

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

I agree , price point is the most important thing to car buyers , you cant see a skoda at BMW prices, even of the car is the same size , similar reliability etc

the 40 kwh Leaf with mid range spec, will need to be around 25K, The main competitor will be the Ioniq

Oafley Jones

BoatMad wrote: »

hmm , every price estimate Ie seem , puts the base Model 3 at 35K, I cant see it being cheaper then that

Even that's optimistic I think.