2018 Leaf

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Price is more important than EPA range. As long as it can be had from about €25k on the road, it matters little if EPA is 200km or 280km. It will sell.

I disagree
It will not sell like an ICE (eg qaushqai, pulsar etc) until it has at least over 300km of real world range.
It will be instead just be another EV that joined together makes up the 0.02% of the current market.
In order to even make 1%, we need to multiply by 500times the number of current EV, and that's only for 1% market share.

BoatMad

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Even that's optimistic I think.

personally I think so , Ireland is a high price car market , id suggest it will be closer to 40K

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

I agree , price point is the most important thing to car buyers , you cant see a skoda at BMW prices, even of the car is the same size , similar reliability etc

the 40 kwh Leaf with mid range spec, will need to be around 25K, The main competitor will be the Ioniq

In US, the Tesla Model 3 costs marginally more than an entry level BMW 320i. So take entry level here 320i and subtract 10k for incentives. We end up with €33k again...

I know this is wish-full thinking, but the price ends up at €32-€33k if you do calculations with current EUR/USD exchange rate

BoatMad

I know this is wish-full thinking,

yes I think it will be

Soarer

The unveiling is kicking off tomorrow morning at 09:30 Japan time, which is 01:30 GMT.

Apparently this is the link to the live stream later.

Must admit I'm excited to see what's coming. Don't think it'll be the big bag of useless some people are fearing.

ELM327

Not going to bother watching myself anyway, I'm sure it will be online fairly quickly what the specs are.
I'm going with 7/11kW AC charging and 62.5kW chademo DC.
40kWh battery with the promise of "more to come".
Range, probably within 10 miles of the Ioniq.

cros13

Roll up, Roll up, Place your bets....


Mine is on 11kW Type 2 AC charging in europe. Possible upgrade available to 22kW.
~250km real world range for the ~40kWh with more coming later
faster Chademo rapid charging.
The usual propilot stuff.
Pricing to drop/remain the same.
Slight increase in passenger and cargo volume.
Micra EV to launch globally alongside
Maybe we'll see the new eNV200... but that might just get a quiet launch later in the year.

Side bet on the Note e-power getting a bigger rollout.

Soarer

What's the current real world range for the 30kWh? About 180kms?

macnab

Im quessing 40kw useable battery returning 280km at every day pace and up to 330km with hypermileing (The one pedal drive should boost brake regen considerably) 60kw battery to follow as an upgrade. 6.6kw and ChadMo charging standard with 11kw upgrade.
I think the EV Micra will be unveiled with 30kw standard and 40kw upgrade. A hybrid Micra might also be unveiled and/or news that the eNote will be released in Europe.
The Juke EV is on the cards but maybe not just yet. I would love to see a 60kw CashCow but they are still selling the ice varient in huge volume so they wont want to dilute that market.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

~250km real world range for the ~40kWh with more coming later
faster Chademo rapid charging.
The usual propilot stuff.
Pricing to drop/remain the same.

I'd guess much the same, but I'm afraid that propilot might be an optional extra (the Tesla route). Anyone know the coefficient of drag yet? This is crucial as the only point of having a long range is if you do long distances, which is mainly on motorways

Soarer wrote: »

What's the current real world range for the 30kWh? About 180kms?

EPA is 172km, but you don't want to go near a motorway doing 120km/h if you want to make that

I'll be waiting up cause after working 4 nights my body doesn't know whether it's day or night anyway lol.

I think I could be hanging onto my 151 Leaf until a longer range comes out. Perhaps get a 182.

I want a significant battery upgrade to make it worth while coming from 21 usable Kwh. Yes 250 kms with the potential to stretch to 280 odd is a nice thought but why have less when you can have more ? means greater independence from the charging infrastructure when I need to take a long trip. I'll be waiting with great interest for the EPA report !

Yes the updated Leaf will be a lot better either way and open the door to a lot more potential EV buyers.

Propilot is a joke just like the Ioniq and it's in no way any form of automated driving as you need your hand on the wheel or it will slow down and completely stop after a few attempts to get you to take over.

Ok, I'll probably still get it for the auto cruise capability but that would be the only reason.

I can still wait for the actual "new model" Leaf II late 2019 ish either though I really don't want to put more money into the current leaf, I think I'll hold out to 162 max we'll see it's hard to decide what to do......

If I do get the Leaf this will be the colour I choose, I like it.

thierry14

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

11kW Type 2 AC charging in europe. Possible upgrade available to 22kW.

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

grogi

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

I have been asking the same many times... My understanding is if you have enough amperage on the one phase, you can power up all of them from the one.

It's not the three-phase motor when all three must be exactly 120* apart.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

The same as the i3 11kW I would have thought.

tedpan

thierry14 wrote:

2 hours @ motorway speeds

thierry14 wrote:

160kmh min top speed

thierry14 wrote:

0-60 7 ish secs

thierry14 wrote:

25k on the road

For 25k, I'm guessing everyone would buy that 😂

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

I have been asking the same many times... My understanding is if you have enough amperage on the one phase, you can power up all of them from the one.

It's not the three-phase motor when all three must be exactly 120* apart.

in theory yes, but the practical engineering of the 3 phase chargers will mean the 11kw will be 3-phase

Im going for 7 Kw AC single as standard ,optional 3 phase 11 kw , all with type 2 plug , 44Kwh battery with 40 kwh usable, Chaedmo etc

11 kw would be handy at the public charge points !

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

in theory yes, but the practical engineering of the 3 phase chargers will mean the 11kw will be 3-phase

Im going for 7 Kw AC single as standard ,optional 3 phase 11 kw , all with type 2 plug , 44Kwh battery with 40 kwh usable, Chaedmo etc

So, if the car has the optional 3 phase 11kW what happens when you plug it into a single phase domestic connection?... what rate do you get.... one third of 11kW?

cros13

unkel wrote: »

I'm afraid that propilot might be an optional extra (the Tesla route).

I think it's pretty certain that propilot will either be restricted to the SVE or an optional extra on top. That's the case for propilot on the existing models in Japan. Nissan saw 60% of Japanese Serena customers order the higher trims to get propilot and won't pass up an opportunity to pad the margins.

Deleted User wrote: »

Propilot is a joke just like the Ioniq and it's in no way any form of automated driving as you need your hand on the wheel or it will slow down and completely stop after a few attempts to get you to take over.

ProPilot is definitely superior to the Ioniq's LKAS. It's more like Mercedes Drive Pilot.

KCross wrote: »

How would 11kW work in practice? Is it only if you have 3 phase, so largely irrelevant in this country?

If they do have 11kW 3-phase what would it likely be on single phase.... still the same 6.6kW?

I'd say 3.6kW. I think 11kW would be a 3x16A charger on-board. And an on-board single phase to three-phase converter to pull more current wouldn't be worth the weight or engineering effort. 22kW would be 3x32A and pull 7.2kW on single phase.

thierry14 wrote: »

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

It won't be far off that.

unkel

thierry14 wrote:

2 hours @ motorway speeds

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

yes, I think most peoples greatest fear, is that the 40 kwh will end up just a shade better then then Ioniq, however if they leave pricing the same, that makes the Lef cheaper then the Hyundai for the same range

the real interest will be in the 60 kWh

DrPhilG

I'd have been tempted to sit up but I'm in Spain at the minus it would be after 2am for me.

Plus knowing my luck I'd stay up and then there would be hours of waffle before anything of note.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

You will not get 240km at 120km/h unless Cd<=0.26, which it won't be.

Is there a ratio as to what affect Cd+0.01 affects efficiency @ 120km/h.

Like if 120km/h will get you 240kms @ Cd=0.26, does Cd0.27 get you 230kms?

And/Or if you drop to 110km/h @ Cd=0.26, will you get 250kms?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

So, if the car has the optional 3 phase 11kW what happens when you plug it into a single phase domestic connection?... what rate do you get.... one third of 11kW?

I suspect it will be configured to provide 7Kw on single phase

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

2 hours @ motorway speeds

0-60 7 ish secs

160kmh min top speed

25k on the road

I would buy then, my Fabia is getting tired

this would suggest a range of 240 Km at 120 kmph , not a chance from a 40 kwh battery in that Cd.

top speed is irrelevant anyway

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

Is there a ratio as to what affect Cd+0.01 affects efficiency @ 120km/h.

Like if 120km/h will get you 240kms @ Cd=0.26, does Cd0.27 get you 230kms?

And/Or if you drop to 110km/h @ Cd=0.26, will you get 250kms?

Yeah the relation is that drag is proportional to speed squared. So the faster you go, the more important aerodynamics are. It's the main reason Ioniq is so efficient. It's coefficient of drag is 0.24 and that is (with Tesla Model S) the best of all cars being made (including all ICE cars!)

Hence my estimated list of range at various constant speeds (with no wind / rain, etc.):

90km/h -> 250km
100km/h -> 225km
110km/h -> 205km
120km/h -> 180km
130km/h -> 165km
150km/h -> 130km

Lads, you'll save a lot of time , effort and reading if you just wait another half a day.......

BoatMad

100km/h -> 225km

This would be consistent with a proportional increase in battery over the 30 kwh,

however id be surprised if Nissan didn't improve the efficiencies somewhat over a 2010 car !