dog bit delivery mans finger

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This post has been deleted.

Nekarsulm

He was probably already on your property, (and by invitation) as many rural properties extend to the centre line of the country road.
This is well established, as back in the 70's, when rates were paid on private houses, you paid on the land area measured to the centre line.

SusieBlue

Aside from the fact that you are completely responsible, I cannot believe how irresponsible you are as a dog owner.

You have taught your dog to be fearful and aggressive of all strangers, you coop him up in a yard with electric fencing, you don't have a dog warning sign and bizarrely, you also intentionally conceal your doorbell. This is a recipe for disaster.
My dog has never bitten and I can't imagine him doing so unless he was in a scary situation he felt he couldn't avoid, he's well socialised and is confident and comfortable around strangers. Your dog doesn't sound happy at all, to say he is that aggressive towards the general public.

I am normally totally on the side of the dog owner in these threads but in this instance you are completely in the wrong. The delivery driver had reasonable cause to be on your property and sticking a hand over the gate in the presence of the owner is hardly negligible on the drivers part, he was simply trying to do his job. You clearly have no control over your animals.

I've never been more disgusted reading a thread. You have ruined your dogs.

topmanamillion

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

On a personal level I've nothing against the postman, yeah he reached in to get a signature, dog wasn't under control at the time by me, he got bit, it was an accident, could have been avoided by me being more responsible with signs and him bit more cautious of the dog and situation

I'm asking if this goes to court where do I legally stand and is it a valid claim that can be made against me?

It`s your dog that caused the injury. You are liable for damages.
Its your responsibility to ensure this does not happen.

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

like the other posters have said - is there a legal boundary by law the decides on which side of the fence you get bitten, that the responsibility falls on the postman?

And absolutely I am worried about getting sued, cause it's a joke how much compensation you can get for a soar finger.
I wouldn't even started this thread if it was over 500euro after all medical and court expenses
Not a hope am I willing to pay 10-15k oven an indecent like this, and getting the dog put down

Best thing to do is get yourself some legal advice.
From my layman's understanding you are responsible for your dogs.
You are also responsible for the safety of people on your property.
There is no suggestion that the delivery man entered your property illegally.
He did so in the course of carrying out his duties.

I have no idea where you have gotten 10-15k out of.
Or that the dog will need to be put down.
You`re clearly running ahead of yourself here.

If the delivery man has reported this then possibly the guards/dog warden will make a visit to assess the dogs. The decision will be taken from there.
Its my understanding that there's no suggestion of this yet so cross that bridge when you get there.

Also you really shouldn't be minimising this as "a sore finger". A dog bite is incredibly painful and if it drew a significant amount of blood and/or caused damage to his fingers he may well be out of work. Especially, as he`s a delivery man and his job involves driving and manual labour.
Loss of work plus medical bills can very feasibly lead to a substantial bill.

If I was you I`d swallow my ego and apologise to the man. See what the story is with his injury (in a concerned manner).
You really are in no position to come out all guns blazing here.

howyegettinon1

marklazarcovic wrote: »

if you order/recieve something for delivery your inviting someone to your door or postbox,whichever applies. packet/letter

there is a postbox outside the gate away from the dogs

topmanamillion

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

there is a postbox outside the gate away from the dogs

Did the package need to be signed for?
Would it fit in the package?

Delivery men ideally like a face to face anyway as a lot of people will blame the delivery man if a package goes missing.

You`re really missing the point here OP. The dog is clearly dangerous. You need to start working on minimising that danger as you`re current provisions are clearly not sufficient.
I`m telling you now, in a scenario where this goes to court, a judge will tear the arse out of you with your current attitude.

nuckeythompson

marklazarcovic wrote:

you will get a letter from an post shortly after he reports it,usually the day after. pay his bills at a minimum,and any loss of earnings.

Palmach wrote:

Contrary to what most people are saying he is at fault. If his hands were over the fence it is his problem. The dogs are on private property and he chose to enter the property.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Ronan|Raven

I'm afraid the dog has to go. Had to put my own down years ago after she took a lump out of me and had nipped at others in the past it is heart breaking but it needs to be done.

Nekarsulm

topmanamillion wrote: »

Did the package need to be signed for?
Would it fit in the package?

Delivery men ideally like a face to face anyway as a lot of people will blame the delivery man if a package goes missing.

You`re really missing the point here OP. The dog is clearly dangerous. You need to start working on minimising that danger as you`re current provisions are clearly not sufficient.
I`m telling you now, in a scenario where this goes to court, a judge will tear the arse out of you with your current attitude.

OP is not missing the point.
Hasn't he already admitted to hiding the dog?

It is the property owners responsibility to ensure the safety of others.
Its even unadvisable to have barbed wire on a roadside field boundry, to keep cattle in, as a cyclist crashing or a child falling against it would have an excellent chance of compensation for injuries.

topmanamillion

Nekarsulm wrote: »

OP is not missing the point.
Hasn't he already admitted to hiding the dog?

I really don't understand what you are saying here?

I think he said he has an electric fence around the dog. I don't think he`s hiding the dog.
And if he is hiding the dog he really has to question why he needs an animal so dangerous that it needs to be hidden/controlled behind electric wire.
That's the point.

Tommy Kelly

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I'm afraid the dog has to go. Had to put my own down years ago after she took a lump out of me and had nipped at others in the past it is heart breaking but it needs to be done.

All Rise.... Judge Ronan Raven here.

Are you a Judge?

You haven't a clue about what went on at the OP's house today. So we might give over with the killing the poor dog chat here now.

Dots1982

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I'm afraid the dog has to go. Had to put my own down years ago after she took a lump out of me and had nipped at others in the past it is heart breaking but it needs to be done.

Do dogs that bite thiefs that are trying to gain access to Private property also get put down?

Serious question?

Nekarsulm

topmanamillion wrote: »

I really don't understand what you are saying here?

I think he said he has an electric fence around the dog. I don't think he`s hiding the dog.
And if he is hiding the dog he really has to question why he needs an animal so dangerous that it needs to be hidden/controlled behind electric wire.
That's the point.

Go back and read post #56.
Then read post #77.

He knows the dog is dangerous.

eviltwin

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

All Rise....

Are you a Judge?

You haven't a clue about what went on at the OP's house today. So we might give over with the killing the poor dog chat here now.

If the delivery man goes further with this the dog will most likely be taken and put to sleep and the OP will have no one to blame but himself

Delivery guy wasn't even in the garden, he handed over a package, he didn't do anything overtly threatening to the dog, the dog was in the care of an individual who didn't take adequate precautions......no way will the delivery guy be held responsible.

It's a reasonable assumption that strangers will enter your garden from time to time for legitimate reasons. As dog owners we have to make sure it's safe for them to do so.

Refusing to accept responsibility will just make things worse for the OP. Who knows what complaint this guy has made or will make in the coming days. No point making him angry. The OP is lucky the dog didn't take a finger off.

Tommy Kelly

Dots1982 wrote: »

Do dogs that bite thiefs that are trying to gain access to Private property also get put down?

Serious question?

This is Ireland. If your dog bit a thief inside in your house chances are the dog would be put down and the thief would take the roof from over your head. Go off and buy himself a flat in Spain or something out of the money.

eviltwin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Do dogs that bite thiefs that are trying to gain access to Private property also get put down?

Serious question?

Not necessarily

Dots1982

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I'm afraid the dog has to go. Had to put my own down years ago after she took a lump out of me and had nipped at others in the past it is heart breaking but it needs to be done.

Should dogs that bite anyone including thieves trying to gain access to Private property also be put down?

Bite = death sentence?

Tommy Kelly

I'm sick of this country now

howyegettinon1

topmanamillion wrote: »

It`s your dog that caused the injury. You are liable for damages.
Its your responsibility to ensure this does not happen.




Best thing to do is get yourself some legal advice.
From my layman's understanding you are responsible for your dogs.
You are also responsible for the safety of people on your property.
There is no suggestion that the delivery man entered your property illegally.
He did so in the course of carrying out his duties.

I have no idea where you have gotten 10-15k out of.
Or that the dog will need to be put down.
You`re clearly running ahead of yourself here.

If the delivery man has reported this then possibly the guards/dog warden will make a visit to assess the dogs. The decision will be taken from there.
Its my understanding that there's no suggestion of this yet so cross that bridge when you get there.

Also you really shouldn't be minimising this as "a sore finger". A dog bite is incredibly painful and if it drew a significant amount of blood and/or caused damage to his fingers he may well be out of work. Especially, as he`s a delivery man and his job involves driving and manual labour.
Loss of work plus medical bills can very feasibly lead to a substantial bill.

If I was you I`d swallow my ego and apologise to the man. See what the story is with his injury (in a concerned manner).
You really are in no position to come out all guns blazing here.

other posters mentioned the dog being put down, the postman that got bit through the letterbox got 22k

I've no ego to swallow I've nothing a against the delivery driver or an apologie or giving him a few quid within reason, just think he should be more careful with the nature of his job encountering angry dogs every day, this could have been avoided if he paid any attention to the dog at all

Accidents happen and did in this case, all I wanted to know if the man did decide to go claiming for stupid amounts of money - like it very easily can be done, would he or I have a leg to stand on or not

ShaShaBear

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

other posters mentioned the dog being put down, the postman that got bit through the letterbox got 22k

I've no ego to swallow I've nothing a against the delivery driver or an apologie or giving him a few quid within reason, just think he should be more careful with the nature of his job encountering angry dogs every day, this could have been avoided if he paid any attention to the dog at all

Accidents happen and did in this case, all I wanted to know if the man did decide to go claiming for stupid amounts of money - like it very easily can be done, would he or I have a leg to stand on or not

No harm but from what I can see, that has been answered several times. No, you likely would not. Your dog was not under control and the delivery man did absolutely nothing to warrant being attacked by your dog. Your dogs were accompanied by a person who, as far as the delivery man was concerned, had them under control and simply offered a pad to be signed by your friend. Your dog should not have bitten and you are 100% at fault. Unless you told your friend to sign for and take the package on the other side of the gate to remove the risk of the man getting bitten, then there is no way of shifting the blame.

PS most of us who have dogs would rather they did not bite an intruder, because it far increases the likelihood that the dog will be killed. People breaking into houses generally prepare for a dog, and I would much rather find my TV gone than find my dog's brains splattered all over my hallway. Dogs can be trained to alert without resorting to biting and you really shouldn't teach your dog to bite unless you know what you are doing.

RustyNut

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

other posters mentioned the dog being put down, the postman that got bit through the letterbox got 22k

I've no ego to swallow I've nothing a against the delivery driver or an apologie or giving him a few quid within reason, just think he should be more careful with the nature of his job encountering angry dogs every day, this could have been avoided if he paid any attention to the dog at all

Accidents happen and did in this case, all I wanted to know if the man did decide to go claiming for stupid amounts of money - like it very easily can be done, would he or I have a leg to stand on or not

He was careful, he stayed outside the gate when your friend waved from the house, he was there on legitimate business. Your friend seems to have been aware that the dog was inclined to bite and still didn't lock the dog up or restrain him until it was too late.
I would say taking into account the occupiers liability act that if the delivery man puts in a claim the only question would be how much he gets.

topmanamillion

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

other posters mentioned the dog being put down, the postman that got bit through the letterbox got 22k

I've no ego to swallow I've nothing a against the delivery driver or an apologie or giving him a few quid within reason, just think he should be more careful with the nature of his job encountering angry dogs every day, this could have been avoided if he paid any attention to the dog at all

Accidents happen and did in this case, all I wanted to know if the man did decide to go claiming for stupid amounts of money - like it very easily can be done, would he or I have a leg to stand on or not

Fair enough, I think it may be posters adding unhelpful information like that, that are the problem rather than you.

You can only deal with your own case.
The fact postman Pat in Dalkey or wherever got a lob really doesn't have any relevance to your case.

I think you need to communicate with the delivery man. He`s a person like you that`s trying to make a living. My own view is your responsible for your dogs. It really is that simple, he leant over the fence, he didn't get a stick and poke them or antagonise them. It shouldn`t bring that re-action from a dog.

As I said already. You need to consider the lay out of the fence so visitors don't have to go through the enclosure to get to your door and also consider whether you and the people you love are safe around your dog. Its not responsible to hide the dog. You should allow it to be assessed and let experts make that call.

njs030

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

other posters mentioned the dog being put down, the postman that got bit through the letterbox got 22k

I've no ego to swallow I've nothing a against the delivery driver or an apologie or giving him a few quid within reason, just think he should be more careful with the nature of his job encountering angry dogs every day, this could have been avoided if he paid any attention to the dog at all

Accidents happen and did in this case, all I wanted to know if the man did decide to go claiming for stupid amounts of money - like it very easily can be done, would he or I have a leg to stand on or not

Op you are seriously missing the legal points here.

You have to have control of your dog at all times. If your dog bites someone you have lost control.
That is the simple facts here.
Then you add in other points like-
you have deliberately hidden a doorbell making it harder for people to contact you,
the dogs are allowed to run freely in an area where they can come into easy contact with passers by.
You have no warning to call you or do not approach signs.

Your attitude of blaming the driver and saying he should be more careful is appalling.
You should have your dogs contained and properly controlled.

Yes I think you have reason to worry about the dog warden and should seek legal advice. I also think you should consider getting proper training for your dogs and proper ways for people to announce their presence at you're home.

howyegettinon1

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Aside from the fact that you are completely responsible, I cannot believe how irresponsible you are as a dog owner.

You have taught your dog to be fearful and aggressive of all strangers, you coop him up in a yard with electric fencing, you don't have a dog warning sign and bizarrely, you also intentionally conceal your doorbell. This is a recipe for disaster.
My dog has never bitten and I can't imagine him doing so unless he was in a scary situation he felt he couldn't avoid, he's well socialised and is confident and comfortable around strangers. Your dog doesn't sound happy at all, to say he is that aggressive towards the general public.

I am normally totally on the side of the dog owner in these threads but in this instance you are completely in the wrong. The delivery driver had reasonable cause to be on your property and sticking a hand over the gate in the presence of the owner is hardly negligible on the drivers part, he was simply trying to do his job. You clearly have no control over your animals.

I've never been more disgusted reading a thread. You have ruined your dogs.

What you on about? Cooped up? Fearfull? Do you know the dog? Getting ahead of yourself there.....

The dog has an acre of grass and freedom to roam around on when it needs to go outside for a few hours during the day. I can walk the dog without a leash in public it wouldn't bat an eye lid at a stranger

It can be argued that the dog did act out of fear, a stranger shoving something in a family members direction can be seen as a threat in the dogs eyes.....

Negligible part from my side is not having a sign up to keep people out

---

it's there now anyway

I looked at the video again, dog is barking at him and hair and tail standing up. That's a warning to stay away. He doesn't even look in it's direction. Could have been avoided if he even considered the dog in the slightest as a threat.

Too casual, didn't pay attention, he got bit. Doesn't make it right but could have been avoided

marklazarcovic

i think the op is waiting for a legal eagle type to swoop in and declare that its all good,posties fault,leaning over gate for sig,his own fault,tresspass, bla bla ,tommy has a serious chip because of his own experience,perhaps valid,but nothing to do with this instance.

but at the end of the day you have a biter,it will be reported,if it bites anyone again your in more than financial trouble.

i had mormons at my door earlier ,im rural too.have a big dog. big gate at side,big mesh fence 12 ft high like around tennis courts,they still walked up to my door and it was wide open coz i was emptying my car.

i would have been in trouble if my dog got out the front door and went for them.


thems the rules.

howyegettinon1

topmanamillion wrote: »

You`ve said you have them under control but electric fencing doesn't suggest to me that the dogs are easily controlled.
If you have children, nieces/nephews or just friends with children who are likely to visit you need to consider what would happen if one of them wandered into the enclosure with these 2 dogs.

At a minimum you need to redesign the enclosure so people can walk up to your door step without having to enter it.
If you need security I`d suggest a home alarm system.
The days of using dogs as security guards are over. It leaves you wide open to being taken to the cleaners.

To sum up, you`re liable. Pay the mans medical bills and cross your fingers he doesn't take it any further.

there is no enclosure, its my garden, dogs have every right to be there. Nothing wrong with electrical fence, keeps them from finding a way out of the garden or digging their way out under the fence or hedging somewhere

An alarm, what use is that if no-one can hear it? garda don't rush too often, all ya need is 10 minutes to clean a house out. So neither of the above is any use for protecting your home unless you live next door to the station and the garda listen out for your house alarm

Manion

Dogs who bite humans are not automatically put down. Some counties put down a lot of dogs while others have a very low kill rate. There would be an assessment where removing the dog from the currently owner would be considered.

Trespassing or not trespassing is completely irrelevant. If it wound't have been OK for you to attack someone in similar circumstances, why on earth would you think it was OK for your dog to do so? Its false equivalence. All he would have to demonstrate is that the result was forseeable by you, the owner.

Occupiers' Liability Act, 1995
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/act/10/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5

Bottom line, you have a guard dog, you know she is likely to attack a visitor to your property, you posted no warnings, you're at fault.

njs030

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

there is no enclosure, its my garden, dogs have every right to be there. Nothing wrong with electrical fence, keeps them from finding a way out of the garden or digging their way out under the fence or hedging somewhere

An alarm, what use is that if no-one can hear it? garda don't rush too often, all ya need is 10 minutes to clean a house out. So neither of the above is any use for protecting your home unless you live next door to the station and the garda listen out for your house alarm

Why did you make the thread if you aren't going to listen?

You must have control of your dogs at all times. It doesn't matter if they are in your garden you weren't in control.

Sure look keep thinking you're right.

marklazarcovic

it could have been a lot worse in fairness,your a tad lucky a finger was not lost ,big dog like that it would have been easy enough with its weight behind him pulling.

SusieBlue

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

What you on about? Cooped up? Fearfull? Do you know the dog? Getting ahead of yourself there.....

The dog has an acre of grass and freedom to roam around on when it needs to go outside for a few hours during the day. I can walk the dog without a leash in public it wouldn't bat an eye lid at a stranger

It can be argued that the dog did act out of fear, a stranger shoving something in a family members direction can be seen as a threat in the dogs eyes.....

Negligible part from my side is not having a sign up to keep people out

---

it's there now anyway

I looked at the video again, dog is barking at him and hair and tail standing up. That's a warning to stay away. He doesn't even look in it's direction. Could have been avoided if he even considered the dog in the slightest as a threat.

Too casual, didn't pay attention, he got bit. Doesn't make it right but could have been avoided

But he did stay away, he stayed outside the gate. The owner was present and obviously the delivery driver assumed the owner had control and was supervising the situation, which was a reasonable assumption to make.
He was there on legitimate business and it's not like he was teasing the dog with a load of fresh sausages, all he simply did was pass a notepad inside the gate. Hardly reckless behaviour, and certainly wouldn't instigate aggression from a dog with a reasonable temperament.

It is highly irresponsible of you to walk this animal without a leash considering he will bite the hand of someone passing something to his owner. What if a child were to run up to him? Or you pass a jogger? You clearly do not have control over this dog.

I understand you wanting to protect your home but you also have a duty to make sure anyone that comes into contact with your animal does so without harm.
It is reasonably foreseeable that you will have callers to your home and it is unfair to order stuff for delivery when you train your dogs to behave like this.
That poor delivery man was just doing his job.