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Irish Brexit

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ....and this has nothing to do with French and German banks chucking cheap money at us, fuelling the fire!?
    The cheap money was available in Germany and France too (even cheaper!!). Ireland needs (and I believe is doing so) to learn that we are a peripheral economy in Europe. The ECB will set monetary policy for the benefit of the Eurozone as a whole and we are a very small part of it so can't expect that monetary policy to generally align with our specific needs, but that should be obvious to us and our policy-makers who should have built in safeguards to prevent cheap money overheating the economy. It was all within our own power to pour water on the fire, but we didn't. The 20% lending rules that are now in force would have prevented the worst excesses that led to the crisis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    murphaph wrote: »
    The cheap money was available in Germany and France too (even cheaper!!). Ireland needs (and I believe is doing so) to learn that we are a peripheral economy in Europe. The ECB will set monetary policy for the benefit of the Eurozone as a whole and we are a very small part of it so can't expect that monetary policy to generally align with our specific needs, but that should be obvious to us and our policy-makers who should have built in safeguards to prevent cheap money overheating the economy. It was all within our own power to pour water on the fire, but we didn't. The 20% lending rules that are now in force would have prevented the worst excesses that led to the crisis.

    We can put it in a book/online tutorials call 'How To Handle The First 100 Years Of Independence' and sell it to the Scots and Welsh and even the English.

    We learn by our mistakes. Or, at least we should. Would we make quite the same monumental hash of it again? I don't think so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    There's going to be a time where people in the UK are sick of subdising 6 counties to the tune of 20 billion a year. A wasteful state if ever I seen one.

    20 billion now? jesus, it was 8 last week. What will it be next week:eek:
    wes wrote: »
    They should have put in some effort to fix the Norths economy. The state of the North is ultimately there fault.

    the north's economy is the fault of the organisation who spent 30 years bombing the place with (amongst others) the objective of making it an unattractive place for outside investment.
    We can put it in a book/online tutorials call 'How To Handle The First 100 Years Of Independence' and sell it to the Scots and Welsh and even the English.

    We learn by our mistakes. Or, at least we should. Would we make quite the same monumental hash of it again? I don't think so.

    there's a difference between making mistakes and being downright incompetent. When these mistakes were being repeatedly pointed out, those doing so were told to kill themselves, if I recall correctly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    20 billion now? jesus, it was 8 last week. What will it be next week:eek:



    the north's economy is the fault of the organisation who spent 30 years bombing the place with (amongst others) the objective of making it an unattractive place for outside investment.



    there's a difference between making mistakes and being downright incompetent. When these mistakes were being repeatedly pointed out, those doing so were told to kill themselves, if I recall correctly.

    The damage was well done by the stage that the very people talking up the bubble had changed their minds/bandwagon.
    Will people be as stupid again? I don't think so. The ability of banks and politicians to pull the wool over people's eyes is well diminished here.

    If only the same could be said of the UK then all would be a lot rosier now. Would Farage and co be able to do it again in the UK, I very much doubt it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    The damage was well done by the stage that the very people talking up the bubble had changed their minds/bandwagon.
    Will people be as stupid again? I don't think so. The ability of banks and politicians to pull the wool over people's eyes is well diminished here.

    really? I see the exact same behavior happening that happened ten years ago.
    If only the same could be said of the UK then all would be a lot rosier now. Would Farage and co be able to do it again in the UK, I very much doubt it.

    What?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    the north's economy is the fault of the organisation who spent 30 years bombing the place with (amongst others) the objective of making it an unattractive place for outside investment.

    To be fair the loyalists more than played a part in that too. You only need to look at Arlene Fosters antics to see they're still scuppering the place to this day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    It won't happen.
    We will just have to look at the effects of Brexit on the UK to know we can't risk it.

    Now a united Ireland is a different story! Please don't affiliate me with shinners :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    really? I see the exact same behavior happening that happened ten years ago.

    No you don't really.
    But I am all eyes, can you show us?


    What?

    The UK got led into an economic cul de sac by idiot politicians imo. Farage, Boris etc and now Theresa and Co finishing the job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    To be fair the loyalists more than played a part in that too. You only need to look at Arlene Fosters antics to see they're still scuppering the place to this day.

    No doubt about it, part of the campaign was to make the statelet even more economically unviable. But it never really was viable once the UK moved away from being a manufacturing powerhouse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    No doubt about it, part of the campaign was to make the statelet even more economically unviable. But it never really was viable once the UK moved away from being a manufacturing powerhouse.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/organ/ira/ira_green_book.htm
    The strategy is:

    1. A War of attrition against enemy personnel which is aimed at causing as many casualties and deaths as possible so as to create a demand from their people at home for their withdrawal.

    2. A bombing campaign aimed at making the enemy's financial interest in our country unprofitable while at the same time curbing long term financial investment in our country.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    the north's economy is the fault of the organisation who spent 30 years bombing the place with (amongst others) the objective of making it an unattractive place for outside investment.

    No, its the fault of the UK government, who refused to gurantee civil rights for everyone in Northen Ireland, and hence the bloody mess. Ignoring why the IRA existed, in the first place is simply foolish.

    The fact remains, that the UK government has failed to improve the Norths economy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    wes wrote: »
    No, its the fault of the UK government, who refused to gurantee civil rights for everyone in Northen Ireland, and hence the bloody mess. Ignoring why the IRA existed, in the first place is simply foolish.

    The fact remains, that the UK government has failed to improve the Norths economy.

    Fred doesn't countenance that. The UK could have done in 1969 what they eventually did in 1998 negating any reason for the conflict to explode and get out of control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Fred doesn't countenance that. The UK could have done in 1969 what they eventually did in 1998 negating any reason for the conflict to explode and get out of control.

    Its shocking that to this day, that people can't recognise, that if the civil rights of everyone in the North were respected, then the troubles probably wouldn't have happened.

    One would hope people, would want to learn from history, but it looks like far to many are blinded by emotion to do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    We have to expect a bombardment of Euro crises stories in the British media. '48 hours to save the euro', 'look over there at greece' that kind of thing.

    They would be better spending their time and energy finally getting the UK deficit under control rather than worrying about the euro or southern european economies a fraction of their size.

    Osbourne and Cameron tried to tackle this as it was such a priority in the 2010 and 2015 elections. But they've walked now, and nobody is showing any signs of addressing it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    To be fair the loyalists more than played a part in that too. You only need to look at Arlene Fosters antics to see they're still scuppering the place to this day.

    Through unionist eyes it will always be A) nationalists, B) Catholics or C) the rest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy



    I know you don't agree Fred but a sectarian state against one ethnic group isn't great either. Not a great investment oppertunity either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    No doubt about it, part of the campaign was to make the statelet even more economically unviable. But it never really was viable once the UK moved away from being a manufacturing powerhouse.

    And I suppose all the unemployed people are due to nationalists ect. As well as the RHI scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    wes wrote: »
    They should have put in some effort to fix the Norths economy. The state of the North is ultimately there fault.

    This Brexit thing might force them to face reality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    wes wrote: »
    No, its the fault of the UK government, who refused to gurantee civil rights for everyone in Northen Ireland, and hence the bloody mess. Ignoring why the IRA existed, in the first place is simply foolish.

    The fact remains, that the UK government has failed to improve the Norths economy.

    So the organization that had the stated aim of ****ing up the North's economy can't, under any circumstances, be blamed for, you know, ****ing up the economy?

    Maybe slab Murphy and Gerry Adams should be made to fund rebuilding the economy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    So the organization that had the stated aim of ****ing up the North's economy can't, under any circumstances, be blamed for, you know, ****ing up the economy?

    Maybe slab Murphy and Gerry Adams should be made to fund rebuilding the economy.

    Fred get realistic here , of course the PIRA campaign had a massive effect on furthering weakening the North's economy .

    But you must accept that prior to 1969 it was a false economy anyway with an over reliance on state support and with no incentive to change as those in power were beings paid handsomely anyway.

    The PIRA and Loyalists campaigns only hastened what the market reforms of Reagan and Thatcher did everywhere else anyway . We saw it here in the Republic . Now the north have to go through it just 30 years late


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Please get back on topic.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    The problem for Ireland is that the EU want us to change our corporate tax rate because it is too low in comparison with France and Germany. There are a lot of companies operating in Ireland because it is in their financial interests to do so. If they erode our tax sovereignty then they remove our competitive advantage. Either way at that point we'll lose a lot of FDI and we'll still be forced to stay in the EU as we won't be able to negotiate any decent trade terms on our own.

    Until companies are properly audited and banks are not allowed to privitase profits while socialising debt then we're going to continue to have this circle jerk of financial problems. Leaving the EU would just open Ireland up to the real Wild West.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The North's economy is a result of the legacy issues from the plantations.

    There is a mod warning above your post. Stay on topic please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I don't think it would be the smartest thing in the world for us even to offer a referendum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,954 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't think it would be the smartest thing in the world for us even to offer a referendum.

    The article is just badly researched look over there cluck bait. There is not a chance of us voting to leave.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The article is just badly researched look over there cluck bait. There is not a chance of us voting to leave.

    oh give it a couple of years, brexit could change all that


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    The problem for Ireland is that the EU want us to change our corporate tax rate because it is too low in comparison with France and Germany.

    "The EU" doesn't want us to change our corporate tax rate, because direct taxation isn't an EU competence.

    Germany and France might want us to change our corporate tax rate, but that's OK - I'm sure there are plenty of things we want them to do that they're not willing to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    If there is a hard border, firstly the government of the day and supporting parties would be lynched. But secondly, sentiment towards the EU would be greatly changed.

    If I was asked to leave the EU now I would say no but if they requested a hard border and had no fate in the current parties to tell them to eff off, I would most certainly be wanting to leave.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    If there is a hard border, firstly the government of the day and supporting parties would be lynched. But secondly, sentiment towards the EU would be greatly changed.

    If I was asked to leave the EU now I would say no but if they requested a hard border and had no fate in the current parties to tell them to eff off, I would most certainly be wanting to leave.
    If who requested a hard border, exactly?

    If there's a hard border, it will be because of three things: the UK's idiotic decision to shoot itself in the foot and leave the EU; the UK's equally idiotic decision to go for a hard Brexit; and the UK's unwillingness to put a hard border between two parts of its own country.

    None of that will be the EU "requesting" a hard border; it will be a consequence of the UK's decision making.

    Don't get me wrong: I realise that people will blame the EU for whatever happens, because blaming the EU seems to be easier than actually understanding the issues. But let's follow your temper tantrum to its logical conclusion: if we flounce out of the EU as well, how exactly do you think the border will operate then? Are you talking about a customs union with the UK? Or have you thought that far ahead?


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If there is a hard border, firstly the government of the day and supporting parties would be lynched. But secondly, sentiment towards the EU would be greatly changed.

    If I was asked to leave the EU now I would say no but if they requested a hard border and had no fate in the current parties to tell them to eff off, I would most certainly be wanting to leave.


    Legally, how can there not be a hard border, unless the North stays in the single market, which is very unlikely? And even if they did, what about immigration, unless we adopt Uk immigration rules instead of EU ones (would require special EU decision, but not impossible).

    However, if we later left the EU, we would be in exactly the same situation regarding the NI border. The only measure that would make the border with UK as invisible as it is today would be if we reconstituted the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and thats about as likely as a United Ireland.


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