Irish Brexit

Capt'n Midnight

Unlike the UK we would need a proper referendum to leave.
An advisory Yes/No just won't do as the constitution would need to be amended. So it would have the full wording of exactly what would be involved. No fudging over a Green, White and Orange exit that would appear soft or hard depending on the observer.

So the referendum commission would have to send out the explanatory booklets after they've been vetted.

There is no party pushing this either. All the major political parties with the exception of SF have been pro-EU since day 1. And the SF vote would probably be cancelled by the people who would vote against any change SF wanted regardless of what the issue was.

People with higher education and higher status on the ABC scale are more likely to both vote Remain and to vote in the first place. Amongst full time students it was 99% in that poll. And then consider it's likely that the poll would have included SF voters too.

Ted Plain

Samaris wrote: »

I remember seeing a list of countries by their Europhilic tendency and Ireland was actually fairly high up the list. Weren't right at the top, but were in the top five or six at the time. It has probably changed since though. I'm fairly sure I saw this list near the start of the Brexit campaign and it was probably a year or so out of date then.

I saw this in one of the German newspapers a year or two ago.

The caption accompanying it read "The Irish fear the EU's bureaucracy less than they do their own government's incompetence".

Absolutely spot on, in my opinion.

Impetus

This is just part of an ongoing Anglo-Saxon drum beat in the media.

On CNBC the other day, (US version) they claimed that European shares were severely hit - meanwhile the Stoxx 600 (top 600 shares in Europe - which includes CRH and its ilk) were up 0.40% on the day. The DAX was up 0.5% as was the CAC40. Even Bloomberg (who charge $24'000 pa for their feed) has an ongoing story on the 'common currency crisis'. What crisis?

Sterling has fallen from being worth €1.71 in July 2001 to €1.137 today. A devaluation of 33.5%.

It is part of the Murdoch media fed Brexit/Bush red neck brigade, and how they let themselves be taken advantage of by certain media and political entities.

A properly functioning political system needs high quality education for the entire population. Else we will have zombies pressing political buttons. A prime example of good education is Switzerland which succeeds to deliver high quality products and services and good governance. In Switzerland (as in France, Germany etc) you are professionally educated and have a profession whether you are a plumber or heart surgeon. And society holds all occupations with similar esteem.

crystal hedgehog

This is 5 years after you posed your question and the so-called !recovery" expounded by Enda and the Blueshirts must be above in Dublin because I don't see much evidence of it round here!
We need to take the example of Britain and do an IREXIT! The EU is cannibalising Ireland!:(:( That's my take on it anyway!

BillyBobBS

crystal hedgehog wrote: »

This is 5 years after you posed your question and the so-called !recovery" expounded by Enda and the Blueshirts must be above in Dublin because I don't see much evidence of it round here!
We need to take the example of Britain and do an IREXIT! The EU is cannibalising Ireland!:(:( That's my take on it anyway!

I find the lack of critical thinking on the EU in Ireland utterly baffling. It's like the Irish have a complete blind spot when it comes to Europe. That is going to cost us dearly in the coming years.

tomwaterford

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I find the lack of critical thinking on the EU in Ireland utterly baffling. It's like the Irish have a complete blind spot when it comes to Europe. That is going to cost us dearly in the coming years.

There is a worrying amount of people blindly follow all the eu says as good


It doesn't have irelands interests at heart,even regarding brexit....so I wouldn't be in favour of leaving the border question as a bargaining chip to the eu

jimmycrackcorm

crystal hedgehog wrote:

This is 5 years after you posed your question and the so-called !recovery" expounded by Enda and the Blueshirts must be above in Dublin because I don't see much evidence of it round here! We need to take the example of Britain and do an IREXIT! The EU is cannibalising Ireland! That's my take on it anyway!

You must be living in back of beyond because all the stats show differently. Ireland is and has done well out of the EU. There's not much point in blaming the EU for our recession just because we didn't stop ourselves from partying.

tomwaterford wrote:

It doesn't have irelands interests at heart,even regarding brexit....so I wouldn't be in favour of leaving the border question as a bargaining chip to the eu

The blame lies squarely with the Brits. If anyone is going to try use the border as a bargaining chip it will be them.

Were it not for May's dependence on the unionists, we would be seeing border checks at the ports and airports on this island.

First Up

crystal hedgehog wrote:

The EU is cannibalising Ireland! That's my take on it anyway!

Any examples?

listermint

Like moths to a flame,





any of you lads got any thoughts on the packed motorways and 5.5% unemployment ?

James Brown

I think we'd be lost without the EU attempting to keep the country in check. Motor insurance scams, tax 'issues'. Thankfully we've the British looking into the NAMA/NI affair.

seamus

tomwaterford wrote: »

It doesn't have irelands interests at heart,even regarding brexit....so I wouldn't be in favour of leaving the border question as a bargaining chip to the eu

So the EU tells the UK that the NI border is a redline issue for Brexit negotiations, yet somehow that reads to you as "The EU doesn't care about Ireland".

The EU cares about Ireland as a member of the EU. The EU as a group has the EU's best interests at heart. It can't have a single country's interests at heart because then it wouldn't be a union.

This is pretty typical anti-EU thinking. That the EU should treat Ireland as a special child. When Ireland gets treated as a equal member of the union, somehow that translates as an attack on Ireland. "Treat me special, so I can feel equal".

The EU is a union. Unions require cooperation and compromise. It's not the "everybody be nice to Ireland" gang.

tomwaterford

seamus wrote: »

So the EU tells the UK that the NI border is a redline issue for Brexit negotiations, yet somehow that reads to you as "The EU doesn't care about Ireland".

The EU cares about Ireland as a member of the EU. The EU as a group has the EU's best interests at heart. It can't have a single country's interests at heart because then it wouldn't be a union.

This is pretty typical anti-EU thinking. That the EU should treat Ireland as a special child. When Ireland gets treated as a equal member of the union, somehow that translates as an attack on Ireland. "Treat me special, so I can feel equal".

The EU is a union. Unions require cooperation and compromise. It's not the "everybody be nice to Ireland" gang.

I don't really care about the eu tbh.....and it takes an extreme level of naivety to think the eu cares about families and farmland straddling the border
(I think the eu will compromise on any/all border issues here,to achieve agreement on issues which would financially affect rest of europe,with little regard to irelands econmy)


But I do fully think ireland should use the bind the British find themselves in,to begin effectively dismantling the border and increasing its role/influence in the north.....cross border tourism efforts etc...a Russia-lite on eastern European affairs if ya want an example

seamus

tomwaterford wrote: »

I think the eu will compromise on any/all border issues here,to achieve agreement on issues which would financially affect rest of europe,with little regard to irelands econmy

...and you've done it again.

Ireland is a member of the EU. If it affects Ireland's economy, it affects the EU's economy. And vice-versa. If the agreement is good for the EU economy, then it is good for the Irish economy.

There is no us -v- them. Ireland's economy does not sit outside of and in opposition to the EU's.

The EU does what is best for the EU, including Ireland. Not what is best for the EU, excluding Ireland.

But I do fully think ireland should use the bind the British find themselves in,to begin effectively dismantling the border and increasing its role/influence in the north.....cross border tourism efforts etc...a Russia-lite on eastern European affairs if ya want an example

I do agree that the Irish government should exploit every mess and misstep by the UK government to present the Republic as the benevolent neighbour to the south who just wants to help. If for nothing else than to further reduce sectarian tension.

eeguy

tomwaterford wrote: »

But I do fully think ireland should use the bind the British find themselves in,to begin effectively dismantling the border and increasing its role/influence in the north.....cross border tourism efforts etc...a Russia-lite on eastern European affairs if ya want an example

All this stuff already exists.

tomwaterford

seamus wrote: »

...and you've done it again.

Ireland is a member of the EU. If it affects Ireland's economy, it affects the EU's economy. And vice-versa. If the agreement is good for the EU economy, then it is good for the Irish economy.

There is no us -v- them. Ireland's economy does not sit outside of and in opposition to the EU's.

The EU does what is best for the EU, including Ireland. Not what is best for the EU, excluding Ireland.
.

So if something negatively affects ireland....but 100% positive for the rest of the eu, they'll drop it....so as not to negatively affect ireland??


I find this type of claim hard to believe if I'm honest,ireland deos not owe the eu anything,1st job of any irish politians is loom after ireland first,the eu will look after itself




As for cross border,there's no reason now,not to ramp up funding on more initiatives etc.....look at how Russia is ramping up presence and influence from a distance in eastern Europe

crystal hedgehog

First Up wrote: »

Any examples?

Yes- the amount of people who worked solidly until the crash of 2008 and haven't had much or even any proper jobs since.
The several thousand families who are homeless and the predictions that several thousand more will be made homeless next year.
These tow problems are because the EU forced us to take a bailout entirely on their terms and because instead of making the bond-holders pay,our politicians decided to make the Irish people pay what are, essentially, GAMBLING DEBTS!
The EU making us take Muslim migrants,many of whom are not even from Syria or Iraq but pose as "refugees" to get the freebies and access to Irish women whom they have been brought up to believe "kafir" and thus fair game, even when they CLEARLY say NO! Anyone who would refute this must blame the women of Cologne and think they deserved being molested! Victim-blaming is horrible and cruel but all too common in human nature,sadly!
Other EU nations being allowed to fish Irish waters and sell the catch for their own profit, thus making life difficult for Irish fishermen/women!
Has anyone else anything they would like to add?

crystal hedgehog

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You must be living in back of beyond because all the stats show differently. Ireland is and has done well out of the EU. There's not much point in blaming the EU for our recession just because we didn't stop ourselves from partying.



The blame lies squarely with the Brits. If anyone is going to try use the border as a bargaining chip it will be them.

Were it not for May's dependence on the unionists, we would be seeing border checks at the ports and airports on this island.

The British government didn't want a BREXIT but the majority of ordinary English and Welsh people do, especially the working poor whom the EU has done absolutely sweet FA. to help! I am a dual citizen and I voted LEAVE because all my friends, who would be considered the working poor, are absolutely sick of it! We tried to move to England in 2013 and the place was under miasma of misery, as if the ordinary people feel they have little hope- that can also be blamed on Tory austerity and particularly their benefit sanction legislation and the draconian way they have implemented their version of JobPath! But the EU is also to blame for wages having been depressed for so long by immigrants willing to work for peanuts and rents are so high due to the long ques of prospective tenants,swelled by so many immigrants,ordinary working people are struggling to survive! I personally like Polish people- I went to school with their sons and daughters at my English Catholic school and we have a Polish friend so this is not bigotry nor racism- the East Europeans are being exploited and it's the greedy employers who are to blame backed up by the EU and politicians!
And I suppose it depends on what one classes as "back of beyond";I don't live in or near Dublin anyway!

First Up

crystal hedgehog wrote:

Yes- the amount of people who worked solidly until the crash of 2008 and haven't had much or even any proper jobs since. The several thousand families who are homeless and the predictions that several thousand more will be made homeless next year. These tow problems are because the EU forced us to take a bailout entirely on their terms and because instead of making the bond-holders pay,our politicians decided to make the Irish people pay what are, essentially, GAMBLING DEBTS! The EU making us take Muslim migrants,many of whom are not even from Syria or Iraq but pose as "refugees" to get the freebies and access to Irish women whom they have been brought up to believe "kafir" and thus fair game, even when they CLEARLY say NO! Anyone who would refute this must blame the women of Cologne and think they deserved being molested! Victim-blaming is horrible and cruel but all too common in human nature,sadly! Other EU nations being allowed to fish Irish waters and sell the catch for their own profit, thus making life difficult for Irish fishermen/women! Has anyone else anything they would like to add?

Ah, those sort of examples.

It was a global crash and we were responsible (thanks Bertie) for our part in it. The EU helped us out of it and we now have one of the fastest growing economies, lowest unemployment rates and lowest borrowing rates in the developed world. Did you miss that bit?

The fisheries stuff has repeatedly been shown to be nonsense - we don't and never could have the capacity to fully fish our own waters. We get it back a hundred fold in other ways.

The islamic stuff is just hysterical rubbish.

Meanwhile we have hundreds of thousands of people in well paid jobs thanks to advanced companies setting up here to access the EU market.

Maybe you don't have the education, skills or talent to be part of it. Who are you blaming for that?

Jim2007

It is actually very simple....

Ireland live blood is exporting, we have been producing a positive balance of trade for over thirty years. Normally countries who do this have very strong currencies, but we like Germany, benefit in trading in what to us is an undervalued currency at no cost to our exchequer. If we were to exit the EU, we would be completely wiped out because we simply do not have the resources to devalue a currency in order to protect our economy.

To put the into perspective here in Switzerland, the central bank (SNB) tried to defend the franc and protect our industry. After several months it failed and in so doing we ended hold Euro bonds equal to the deficit of the seven largest Euro group states. Now the SNB's reserves are about 5,000 times that of the CBI and they could not do it. The consequence is that two of the four main employers in my town have had to move across the border to Germany.

Any idea about exiting the EU must address where we would find the resources necessary to defend the punt and protect our economy other wise it just total BS.