Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813658#Comment_120813658

Exactly. Anyway even if they were serious about it, the nimby's would prevent it. There will never be any luas in Cork.

Maybe some of the Penal Laws should be brought back ! That and more immigration may be about the only way this country will progress regarding infrastructure. 😄

Explainer: As it's become very apparent that it's Irish people holding back progress and are almost allergic to doing or planning anything in a speedy or efficient manner. lol.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980404#Comment_120980404

Very rich area right next to the hospital and the road is really not wide enough there for a decent Luas style system. Also two GAA clubs will be badly effected.

When theres the rarely used bus lane next to the hospital at the roundabout with plenty of room for a Luas stop, and the dual carriageway section just outside of the hospital, I cant' see any other route being sensible.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995853#Comment_120995853

Maybe I missed it but as far as I understand there has been no mention of a trolleybus. What’s being proposed is a “high frequency bus route” the phrase BRT has been thrown around but I’d bet my mortgage that the bus route will never meet the criteria for BRT.

KrisW1001

BRT is the preferred fallback now, as the "Light Rail" talk gets quieter. Trolleybus would fit between BRT and true Light Rail, and in a hilly city like Cork it may actually be a better zero-carbon alternative than either battery-bus or light rail.

The idea of a tram-bus on a BRT system was floated, but I don't think that's going to work very well in Cork unless they produce a gold-standard BRT alignment - a longer vehicle just has more potential to get stuck in traffic, especially while attempting to turn. (Too many people in this town still think amber traffic-lights don't count when there's long queues)

I will be (happily) surprised if they manage a true BRT, which is basically a tramway without the tracks, with physical separation between bus lane and other traffic for almost all of the route. Overview here for anyone not familiar with what a BRT system is: BRT Standard - Wikipedia

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002869#Comment_121002869

There's been no mention at all of trolleybus for Cork. The only place I've seen it mentioned is on this thread. BRT isn't planned either. CMATS recommended light rail preceded by a high frequency bus route. TII are progressing with the route selection for light rail.

KrisW1001

Sorry to have caused confusion here: Yes, I am the only person suggesting a trolley-bus, as a speculation about what could be done that was better than a red-painted road lane but not as expensive as a full tram. BRT was mentioned during the CMATS studies as a precursor to an eventual light rail system, but it seems that has now been watered down to a "high-frequency bus route". I suggested trolley bus as a better (and zero-carbon) precursor to trams - you'll forgive me if I'm not optimistic about a Cork Luas...

The corridor shown in CMATS is just about viable with trams, although the long haul up Wilton Road is not ideal, but if any other north/south routes were planned (and I think they should be looking at these), the gradients would favour rubber rather than steel-wheeled vehicles.

cantalach

I was walking along Boreenmanna Road earlier on and pondering the fact that, 3-4 years on since their abortive first attempt, the Council still hasn’t been able to finalise the cycle tracks outside Cork Con and Páirc Uí Rinn. It occurred to me that if we can’t even allocate enough space for cycle tracks on a road as wide as Boreenmanna, there is feck all chance of getting on-street LRT in this city.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003815#Comment_121003815

LOL It really is a joke shop of a city/country. It's like we are paralysed by uselessness. 23 years and 6 months ago we were promised train stations at Blarney, Monard and Blackpool ! Says it all really.

Sorry 20 years ago, 2003 Jan/Feb.

spacetweek

They are doing that, though.

Cork Luas, we’ll see.

niloc1951

The Trambus system in Metz, France. They are not powered by trolleys (electric) but by onboard hybrid diesel generating power for the electric drive system.

The ones used in the Metz system, supplied by Van Hool, can have multiple power source options, including trolleys to overhead cables, onboard batteries, and Hydrogen fuel cells. https://www.vanhool.com/en/vehicles/public-transport

I've actually traveled on the Metz system and the only difference from the Dublin LUAS system is the lack of grinding from the steel wheels on steel tracks on tight turns otherwise they are a pretty much identical travel experience except they are not as long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydf-ijXirdg&ab_channel=TravelImpressionsbyHaiko

KrisW1001

Also used in Belfast: Glider (Belfast) - Wikipedia

The vechicles can be built as battery-electric, diesel or overhead-electric (with or without additional battery), and they claim to have a hydrogen fuel-cell option too.

Risoc

Varadkar on the front of todays Echo.

Looks like he's casting doubt on light rail in Cork (I thought this had already been sanctioned) in favour of a DART style commuter rail (now this has definitely been sanctioned) and BusConnects (currently fighting for survival).

Sounds like he's playing 3 agreed projects off against eachother to shed the two projects that require any considerable planning. He says this commuter rail could be delivered in 5 to 10 years. No **** - Just keep chugging through Kent station.

spacetweek

I've heard that Cork City Council themselves are part of the problem. A whole hape of arses need to be kicked to get Cork BusConnects and Cork Luas back in the mix. All 3 (those and CART) are needed at a minimum.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561879#Comment_121561879

Busconnects is almost certainly going to proceed, just at a rate so scaled down that it won't have a major impact on commuting patterns. Its pretty much the same in Dublin, when concerned locals are given free reign over multiple consultation stages bus infrastructure gets so watered down that it ends up being ineffective. This will ultimately and eventually force the hand of light rail in Cork, particularly if growth rates continue as they have for the last 10 years or so.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561614#Comment_121561614

Absolute joke shop this country really is. Casting doubt on the Cork Luas while talking up already announced and in progress schemes is just utter farce.

RetroEncabulator

I honestly think the only way we will ever get any progress on public transit in Ireland will be when the European Commission eventually notices what a joke shop we are and takes legal action based on failure to address climate change objectives.

We just keep going around and around in the same never endless circle of no progress.

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581453#Comment_121581453

I think only when the civil service is majority people of non Irish background will anything change as it's a cultural issue here that is stopping even the most basic of progress. Narrow mindedness is unfortunately strong in our culture.

Hotblack Desiato

Nonsense

There's any number of schemes and plans drawn up but it's politicians who cancel them (e.g. Leo Varadkar and Metro North)

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581453#Comment_121581453

Even if the EC did start forcing the Irish government to take more action on climate, that action would come in the form of taxes, bans and levies.

RetroEncabulator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121589049#Comment_121589049

Oh probably … anything to do it in a shoestring and keep cancelling plans over and over.

gjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121586542#Comment_121586542

Yeah cause the "people" have no influence over the actions of politicians. We don't get to pick them or anything like that. 🙄

Vaguely following the various BusConnects debacles in Cork and Dublin and the truncation of the Sandyford to Swords metro, it's clear that grass roots NIMBYs are not the innocent victims of oppressive politicians.

And MetroNorth wasn't cancelled on a whim - the country had just entered administration.

Hotblack Desiato

You missed the point

Plenty of plans and schemes have been drawn up over the decades but never implemented.

Politicians refuse to commit the money and to stand up to the small number of NIMBYs for the greater good (e.g. cancelling the conversion of the southern Green Line to metro)

Metro North was literally shovel-ready and would have provided thousands of much-needed jobs. If politicians had had due regard for its importance, they'd have found a way to implement it.

Like every other cancelled PT scheme, the "gains" of doing nothing are immediate, the far larger and long-term losses to society are someone else's problem

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591112#Comment_121591112

I’m sorry, but that simply isn’t true about Metro North. The country was broke, people were losing their jobs left and right, unemployment hit over 15% and even many of those who kept their jobs took big pay cuts. The social welfare bill exploded at a time when we were basically penniless and no one would lend to us.

Troika were basically running the country and they basically made the decision to cancel Metro North.

There was no way we were going to be able to start spending 5bn+ on Metro North when we’re in such a bad state.

It is kind of like saying whey don’t you build a planned €100,000 extension to your house when you just lost your job, have massive debt and are struggling to pay your mortgage.

I really wonder from comments like this, have people already forgotten just how bad the collapse of 2007 was and how horrifying it was to struggle through it. There is no way the public would have accepted 5bn+ being spent on Metro when most were struggling to just survive.

CrabRevolution

There's some Mandela-effect phenomenon going on where people claim we actually had plenty of money during the recession and we requested a bailout just for fun.

Sam Russell

Mod: Metro North was in Dublin - not Cork.

Please try to keep on track - well at least in the same city.

niloc1951

Now here's a novel approach to providing a Rapid Transit System for Cork and it it would cost only one tenth of a conventional rail system https://traveltomorrow.com/chinas-trackless-trams-could-revitalize-city-suburbs/

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806240#Comment_121806240

And they will be stuck in traffic with all of the other buses. Not sure how anyone could look at the mess that is the "strategic infrastructure corridors" for bus connects and think that it will be any different for trackless trams. Our process of multiple rounds of public consultation guarantees that such plans will be pared back in every way that is possible. The massive benefit of trams in Ireland is that you can't compromise.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806240#Comment_121806240

They are being used all over Europe already. The Belfast Flyer uses these.

Thing is they are useless if not on practically 100% bus lanes so all the same NIMBY problems exist.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806392#Comment_121806392

The Belfast system has now exceeded its design capacity after only 5 years, including a global pandemic and stagnant economic growth in the city. The original recommendation for a tram system turned out to be correct, who knew.

Cork is growing rapidly and at current trends will be a larger city than Belfast by the mid century.

cgcsb

Varadkar publicly poured cold water over light rail for Cork so that could be the end of it.