Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799000#Comment_120799000

Mainly because they are using trams along corridors that really should have significantly higher capacity.

bk

TramBuses are largely dead as a transport idea with the rise of EV battery buses. Other than cities that already have a tram bus network, no one is planning to build any new ones and even some of the cities with them are starting to replace them with EV buses.

EV buses can basically run off the same zero emission electricity as a TramBus, but without the cost of the overhead wires and obviously have greater flexibility on where they can go.

EV busses are starting to arrive in Ireland now and Cork will follow shortly.

The choice will be EV bus -> Tram/Luas -> Metro

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799898#Comment_120799898

Trambuses are available with three green drive platforms: battery-electric, hydrogen fuel cell, and trolly

A trolly/battery-electric combination option facilitates running and the charging of the batteries in suburban areas (where the installation of overhead wires is relatively inexpensive and less disruptive) and removes the need for that infrastructure in urban areas, the tram network in Saville utilises that option.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799000#Comment_120799000

It has the second longest trams. Crawling for km through the city centre. Undercapacity...

Ballincollig Blow In

Surprise, surprise.

It’s been delayed. Again. For the umpteenth time.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41177068.html

marno21

A spokesperson for the National Transport Authority confirmed additional work was required on the city centre section of the route following discussions with Cork City Council.

**** hell what have they been at for the last 3 years at all.

cgcsb

Translation Cork Council has demanded more cars

namloc1980

Is anyone actually surprised? The delays to critical transport infrastructure in Ireland is an absolute outrage and it happens again and again and again.

Pete_Cavan

Why should it be delayed for Cork City Council? They should be told to give their opinions during the consultation period, like everyone else, and any valid concerns will be addressed during the next stage of design development.

Also, central government should be telling all local authorities and state agencies that if they aren't going to work constructively with these projects, other exchequer funding to them will be looked at differently. You can’t expect the government to hand over money for your projects while you create problems for other agencies projects.

namloc1980

Stench of political interference off this.

TheChizler

Didn't councillors get a sneak peak of this a while back? Plenty of time to interfere before the public get to be consumed.

namloc1980

The Cork Luas is doomed with this continuous tinkering, interference and delays. Hate to say it but this feels like another Event Centre debacle.

hans aus dtschl

This has a very strong smell of "don't affect cars" about it, as far as I'm concerned.

Bus Connects got watered down to nothing by the councillors for that reason, so that's my best guess.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811045#Comment_120811045

more like stench of they never had any intention of building it. Same as the Dublin Metro. Once the golf club buddy consultants are paid this is all that matters to the politicians and the spooks behind the scene. The naivety on this forum - "but, but planning is important!!!" and "they spent all this on design it has to happen!!!" is staggering at times. All you have to do is look at RTE to see how this place is run and that is just a small peak into what really goes on. There is no Cork Light Rail and there is no Dublin Metro.

gooseman12

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41205121.html

The latest council "idea" involves knocking buildings down to make way for the luas.

The council really really want to keep those on street car parking spaces...

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980051#Comment_120980051

Anyone want to speculate as to where this demolition will be?

gooseman12

alignment map is here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LRT-Alignment-Map-P75.pdf

I suspected there would possibly be some houses gone out between CIT and CUH and that area. I'm not sure there are gaps big enough to fit twin tracks through, although some single tracks sections could make it work.

I never considered any demolition in town, nor did TII based on the article, this seems to be coming from the council. I don't know to be honest, are some of the corners from Washington Street to Grand Parade to Patrick Street to MaCurtain Street too tight? TII would have this worked out so I don't think so.

I honestly don't know where the council are coming from with this, I jokingly referred to maintaining parking/traffic lanes but to be honest, I nearly wouldn't put it beyond them at this stage.

Pete_Cavan

Only state owned buildings and long derelict private buildings are realistic targets for knocking. Proposing demolishing occupied private houses would be a death sentence for the project, although maybe that's CCC's intention.

gooseman12

This seems to be the general plan for the area i mentioned. I can't see how they get through here without taking a few houses but maybe I'm wrong. There are parks and pitches also which won't be given over easily.

The other option is to continue down Melbourne Road to Curraheen Road and onto Bishopstown Road but the published alignment map is much closer to the purple line above.

brianc89

Any home owners in Cork along this line who oppose the project should reflect on this.

It's not just about house prices, it's everything that comes with living next to high quality rail public transport. For sure some people will object claiming negative impact on house prices 🙄

https://www.thejournal.ie/house-prices-luas-dart-4609313-Apr2019/

EnzoScifo

If I was a conspiracy theorist... this would be the first step to cancellation of the entire project.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980404#Comment_120980404

That map was really more of a schematic than an actual proposed alignment (note how it runs straight through the English Market in the city-centre..!). There’s supposed to be at least one stop for the hospital on that segment, but where they’ve drawn the line it will not serve the CUH campus very well at all. If you bring the line properly into CUH’s grounds, the onward routing to the west gets easier.

The reason trolleybuses are ruled as a general solution in Cork is simple (and it’s the same reason they’re not used in Dublin): they’re a bad mix with double-deck buses, and double-deck buses are needed on some routes that would need to traverse any electrified sections.

However, if a way is created with the view of becoming a tram line in future, there‘s no reason not to use trolleybuses as a first step: the cost in an efficient high-capacity bus system isn’t the vehicles, it’s in creating the clear path, and trolleybuses are a much more cost-effective option than BEV buses - especially in hilly areas like Cork.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809649#Comment_120809649

Or they want keep all the announcement for the next local elections, which are due next year.

Heartbreak Hank

If it is going to become a tram line in the future, what is the benefit of making it a busway in the medium term? Surely if it is to be of any use as a busway, there will be a good amount of work to be done and then altered or undone to make it a tram line.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992690#Comment_120992690

I think that should give us a clue that the Luas in Cork is not going to happen.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992690#Comment_120992690

Budget would be a reason. Trolley buses are a step towards a tram that allows you to preserve your investment in infrastructure. First step is to clear services from under the chosen way, and then segregate that bus-way from other traffic and provide overhead power. That’s about half the work of a tram system, but now you can run services while you get the funding for a tram. And while you won’t have the capacity of a tram, it will have a much greater reliability than a bus in shared traffic, and the step up to a tram is only the extra cost of track, platforms, signalling and rolling-stock.

With high reliability, people will take a bus. The problem right now is that the buses in Cork are horribly unreliable - you might get one on time; you might be waiting forty minutes. If the bus has its own “track” that cars cannot use, then that improves service reliability. Of course, there are snobs who would never take any kind of bus, but they can sit in traffic until they cop on...

pigtown

Is funding an issue? I thought the government had committed to its construction

cgcsb

Not sure if funding is an issue, there's 2 bigger issues anyway, Nimbys and therefore the council don't want it and our planning system is a joke.

KrisW1001

The city council wants it, and Nimby’s aren’t all Nimby’s. I know someone affected on Wilton Road - their complaint was that it was unfair for only their side of the street to be impacted by the necessary road widening. They were entirely fine with losing space in front of their house for the greater good, but not with the idea that residents there were being CPO’d for the whole land-take because a couple of businesses lobbied not to lose their front-of-premises car parking...

Funding shouldn’t be a problem, but it can become one. Populists inevitably come out of the woodwork making spurious comparisons (”for the price of that thing only city people would use, we could have a new hospital in [rural Cork town]!”)

DART and the Luas in Dublin showed that once you provide high quality public transport, it becomes hugely popular. The mistake made in Dublin was that they didn’t have a follow-up to ride that momentum.

In Dublin and the other cities, we should be planning the next light-rail line as we’re building the current one, because as soon as these things open, people want one. Demand is already there - it’s not like people enjoy commuting in and out of work each day in a car.

Sam Russell

Trolley buses are a good solution, in that they are cheaper, and more flexible that trams.

However, that flexibility can be a disadvantage if the trolley bus can pass an illegally parked truck, but a tram cannot. Perhaps ruthless enforcement of parking rules and bus lanes would be a good start.

Then, gradually make centre city a no parking area (mostly).