Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140421#Comment_122140421

Cork Commuter Rail has been done outside of the planning process. The Irish planning process is infrastructure kryptonite.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140421#Comment_122140421

That said, what is arguably the most significant Cork Commuter rail project of all - the double-tracking between Carrigtwohill and Midleton - still hasn’t started despite planning being granted and money (apparently) being on the table. My concern is that with the General Election due in Q1 next year, the minister is moving inexorably closer to lame duck territory.

TheSunIsShining

Ending in Mahon, with Rochestown, Passage and Douglas so close, seems very short sighted. Why not run it over the South Ring and then have a split with one route going to Passage/Monkstown (with the possibility of onward to Carrigaline) and the other spur routing back up the Rochestown Road to Douglas?

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143849#Comment_122143849

The bigger the initial project is, the more likely it is to attract objections (and let's face it, the N28 experience world discourage anyone from proposing new infrastructure builds near Rochestown). But, there's nothing to stop an extension later, and the light rail will be popular once it opens, making it much harder for the NIMBYs to gain support..

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143849#Comment_122143849

A bigger project cost more money and takes longer to build. Consider this Phase 1 in the Cork LRT project.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143816#Comment_122143816

Maybe check some facts before going off on one? They only received permission from ABP in November.

Next Steps

A Railway Order application was granted by An Bord Pleanála in November 2023 to construct a proposed second rail track along the 10km railway line between Glounthaune and Midleton. Invitation to tender for construction works will issue in January 2024, with a construction start planned for summer 2024. This will enable twin-tracking to be completed by late 2026.

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail/glounthaune-to-midleton-twin-track-project

Work is already underway on the signalling upgrade.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144404#Comment_122144404

Others here may also not have seen the type of foreshore harbour SPA objections on "environmental grounds" that can come through, the closer you get to the Rochestown Road. There's a reason the greenway turns to sh1t for a few hundred metres there, and it's down to not Council laziness!

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144717#Comment_122144717

Oddly aggressive response. I wasn't "going off on one" and I'm not sure which facts you think I failed to check. I just expressed concern. They said that the RFT would issue in January but I couldn't find any record of that on the etender site (that would be public right?) and it is now May. If the RFT hasn't even issued yet, the summer start date looks optimistic.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140421#Comment_122140421

That's because those initial projects are funded by the EU Covid recovery fund which has a hard deadline of the end of 2026 for projects to be delivered so that covers the resignalling, new platform at Kent and Midleton to Glounthaune dual tracking.

However the other elements like new stations, rolling stock, electrification and new depot are not funded and have no detailed plans.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122143849#Comment_122143849

It's a good idea but Cork would be lucky to get the initial route done.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166022#Comment_122166022

True. Very true. Wonder, being serious, if it will be built by even say 2040?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166696#Comment_122166696

I don't see why not. We've loads of money.

The cost/benefit seems strong. I think it'll have high ridership.

It's great for the docklands development also.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166696#Comment_122166696

I don't see it to be honest. The emerging preferred route was supposed to be revealed by the end of 2022, then it was deferred until July 2023 and then it was further deferred with hardly a word since. And that's just the first step in the process. It's not funded, and based on the backlash to BusConnects, the amount of nimbyism and objections will be off the charts if it ever does go for consultation/planning.

Between the painfully slow development of infrastructure in this country anyway, and the extreme nimbyism I can't see this happening for decades, if ever. Hope I'm wrong.

KrisW1001

The most contentious part of the original proposal was on Wilton Road, where it was decided (unfairly in my view) that all land-take should be from residences on one side of the road, leaving the other completely untouched. This kind of thing would leave them wide open to having the planning refused. However, the original propsal was to widen the road by 9 metres here: a second bus lane, plus two tram lanes, but I think this has been scaled back since, and there may now be a fairer distribution of the pain.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168242#Comment_122168242

Where was that plan published? I don't remember any detailed proposals involving a tram in the Wilton road.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171328#Comment_122171328

Was that not the bus lane proposal a good few years back? When the residents had marked out in their gardens how much land was being taken - houses impacted were on the church side of the road as I recall

KrisW1001

Yes, it's the 2019 proposal, but it wasn't just a bus lane. Residents were given two scenarios for CPO: one for a bus lane, and a second for a bus lane plus light rail. The route shown in the initial Cork LRT proposal goes right up Wilton Road… you really can't serve both UCC and CUH without going this way.

All land take was on one side of the road, which sounds like a recipe for disaster in planning as it can be easily argued to be unfairly placing all the negative impacts on one group of people while leaving others untroubled. Both sides of the street are equally set back from the current road; if anything the side that was to be untouched had more space than the side that wasn't... the cynic in me does note that the sacrificial side of the road is all residential, while the untouched one has a couple of businesses located on it, and homeowners can't write off their legal fees against taxes...

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171539#Comment_122171539

That was my memory, we've never seen much more than crayon route drawings from the NTA so I'm finding it hard to think that there were serious CPO discussions. Maybe some official trying to big up the plans to get people on board? There was plenty of misinformation going round back then too IIRC

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146092#Comment_122146092

Well, well, well…

The third project consists of upgrading the Glounthaune to Midleton line to create a twin track.

Iarnród Éireann said it expects a contract for this work to be awarded next month, and the project is expected to be completed by the end of 2026. The value of the contract is around €90m.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2024/0524/1450928-rail-stations-cork/

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176513#Comment_122176513

Yes, great news that the contract is expected to be awarded next month. But my points stand. Firstly, there was no evidence that anything was happening due to silence since their last update before Christmas. That was legitimate grounds for concern. Secondly, given that I simply stated that concern, your first reply to me was unnecessarily aggressive. We can discuss without acting like 16-year-olds.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122176625#Comment_122176625

It wasn't in any way aggressive. I was making a simple point.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177156#Comment_122177156

I think most people would agree that the tone of “maybe check some facts before going off on one?” is provocative at best. Anyway, that’s that.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41403353.html

An initial option suggested city-bound trams should turn right here, going down South Mall and into the south docks, avoiding the city's main street, and not taking in Kent Station.

But the council insisted the route should turn left and run through St Patrick’s St, cross St Patrick’s Bridge, and then down MacCurtain St to a hub at Kent Station, before crossing the Lee again via a new bridge into the south docks, and on to Mahon via a section of the Marina to Mahon greenway.

→ Interesting debate - the council’s point of view sounds more viable if it can be achieved

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188218#Comment_122188218

Agreed, would be more difficult but far better

pigtown

Not taking in Kent Station would be a mistake. Would it connect with any of the suburban stations otherwise?

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188647#Comment_122188647

I assume it would be a loop - so down South Mall, South Docks, new bridge to Kent, up McCurtain Street maybe, across Patrick's Bridge, up Patrick Street and join back to a common route at Washington Street?

Chris_5339762

Not taking in Kent Station would be absolutely outrageous. The only way they are going to help reduce traffic from the east is to better connect Kent to Cork via a nice reliable Luas - as currently the onward connections might as well not exist.

Leaving Kent Station out of Luas plans would be a disconnected-green-and-red-line-and-lets-not-link-to-Dublin-Airport level of stupid all over again.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188325#Comment_122188325

The article would be easy to follow if it had a little explainer map.

KrisW1001

Maps are dangerous at this point in a project.. it's too easy for people with an axe to grind to distribute a proposal drawing as if it were the final plan, and suddenly we're knee deep in objections.

From what I understand, the council proposal is that the tram line turns left at the Capitol, travels along Patrick St to the river, then crosses the bridge. At this point the tracks split: The city-bound track is routed along the quays, while the track for Kent continues along MacCurtain St, the tracks meet again somwhere around Penrose Wharf, both pass through the Kent Station site, and are then carried south on a new light rail bridge towards the Docklands.

The simpler option is that at the city end of Washington Street, both tram lines turn right, follow Grand Parade and South Mall, then cross the river somwhere to the east of City hall and continue into the Docklands.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188797#Comment_122188797

I actually don't see the point in doing the "simple" option you're describing. Maybe you could do a new pedestrian bridge over to Kennedy Quay from Kent where they'd reach the tram, but not connecting directly at Kent between suburban rail and Luas would appear to be a massive mistake as far as I'm concerned. We're around half way through integrating bus and rail at Kent and it's absolutely transformative, why would we propose another disconnected transport system?