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Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,620 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    That's the old American definition, but in general it is fair to say that it is a far looser one nowadays, with most new tram systems being viewed as either light rail or a subset of it.

    LUAS is a tram but is also viewed as light rail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Can't help but feel that looser definition allowed the govt to cut so many corners with the luas. "Look voters, its LIGHT RAIL".

    Its basically a tram. Nothing wrong with trams, actually a proper tram network would be a lot better than the luas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,849 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    There's no advantage to converting the line to Midleton and Cobh to light rail. It would cost a lot of money and much easier to electricity those existing lines and have a seamless transfer to the Cork Luas at Kent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,586 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    Midleton is getting double tracked and electrified in the future anyway .. along with several new stations , and some of the stations currently have a "step up "to the train , there's also going to be issues at the level crossing in midleton town when the up the frequency , the barriers are down for 20 mins an hour at peak times , doubling the service will bring that to 40 mins ( at peak ) ,

    There's also the issue of "seamless changes at Kent " people are happy to change , but there is resistance to multiple changes - very few journey's end at Kent station , so if you were traveling from .dunkettle or Tivoli , you'd have to change at Kent just to get to the city centre , and have to change again if you were going to towards kinsale road , or mahon or Douglas , or anywhere else really ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,849 ✭✭✭✭ namloc1980


    Light rail to Midleton is a non runner. It's 20km from the city centre. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the Luas in Dublin. Thankfully it's not on the radar at all.

    A fast electrified train is much more attractive when traveling over that distance. I get the train to work in town from Carrigtwohill and it takes 16/17 minutes to Kent. A slower tram would be a serious downgrade. I seriously don't understand the rationale behind downgrading a heavy rail line (soon to be electrified) to a tram. Makes no sense.

    Transport network are built on interchanges. Look at transport in London for example, it's built on the concept of interchanges and switching. You literally cannot have an end to end journey for everyone without changes.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    The aim for a PT network, including heavy rail (DART), tram and bus, is to provide travel from most locations to most other locations with a rapid route that can be achieved with a single transfer (or for a few, double transfer) with frequent service. A short walk at either end is part of this.

    Having trams rumbling slowly along huge distances, or buses going round the houses does not cut it.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    "Can't help but feel that looser definition allowed the govt to cut so many corners with the luas. "Look voters, its LIGHT RAIL".

    Its basically a tram. Nothing wrong with trams, actually a proper tram network would be a lot better than the luas."

    There is no official definition of "light rail". It is a term that was coined in the 70's to describe new emerging systems that had features from both traditional trams and metro's.

    Luas is definitely a light rail system, it has features that go far beyond traditional tram's. Vehicles are much longer, with much higher capacity, frequency is much higher, top-speeds are much higher and yes, it operates along fully segregated sections of the green line.

    While obviously not Metro, Luas goes far beyond the capacity of traditional tram systems.

    Now to be clear, I'm not saying Midleton should be Luas, it wouldn't really make sense.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,201 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Luas to Midleton might be on the table if there was unlimited cash but there isn’t. We’ll be extremely lucky to see anything resembling the current Luas plans in the next 20 years so all eggs should be going in that basket.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    Let's face it, the only problem with Luas is that there's not more of them



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Nah. Its too slow and it goes too far for a tram.

    It'll work better in a small city like Cork, but Dublin was sold a pup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    And that's kinda the one mystery of the NTA's thinking on how to expand and improve the network in Dublin. It was a mistake to extend Green Line beyond Sandyford, that should have been metro from the start ...and yet the future proposals for the line envision upgrading it to metro only as far as Sandyford. In other cities, this type of tram service is used to cover the core and metro would be used in places where there's a need to serve areas further out and into the suburbs - yet the NTA didn't seem to get the memo on this well established convention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭ Pablo Escobar


    The line proposed in Cork is not far off the length of the red line actually. It'll be interesting to see how the navigate the MTU/Btown/CUH/Victoria Cross/UCC section. That seems like it'll cause design issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Its a lot less built up than West Dublin, so opportunity for a better designed system. I dare say Cork could learn from Dublin's mistakes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭ Pablo Escobar


    I’m not sure I’d agree. The only section that’s essentially greenfield is the piece between Ballincollig east and MTU. The rest is solid concrete. The line is obviously available from east of the city centre to Mahon but the section I mentioned above will be difficult. Although I have seen the preliminary map since and it seems to suggest that it’ll run behind the hospital so that might make it a little easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    As usual the devil will be in the detail. I would expect a significantly lower spec than what is currently operating in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    I think Cork should have 3-4 of these lines but the reality is Dublin doesn't even have that.

    Unfortunately both these cities are run by a state with a terrible urban planning record.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    And an even worse record on rail infrastructure.



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